Drive-by-wire throttles

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Originally Posted By: ekpolk
We had a lengthy discussion about DBW on TN a few years ago, when I was still driving the Camry. FYI, here's what the mechanism looks like on a 2003.5 V-6 Camry.

Copy%20(2)%20of%20Camry%20Throttle.jpg



Is the muscle supplied by that vacuum actuator?
 
In the case of a weak transmission car like the TL, it's a blessing. You can hear on the cars with exhaust that the throttle is either reduced or closed on the shifts. This is probably the reason why even though I'm running ATD transmission fluid, shift quality has not really changed. It shifts quicker but I still can't feel the shifts.

It should also eliminate the need for an IAC valve. The only thing I don't like is if they break, they break. In the GN I drove it home after the throttle cable retaining clip fell off with a long piece of wire routed from the throttlebody through the window.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Is the muscle supplied by that vacuum actuator?


If so, what a great way to repurpose those left-over cruise control servos.
 
My wife's Saturn has it and apparently, it softens the "blow" from her right foot. Once, while her car was undergoing a serious repair and my truck was getting a new transmission, we rented a Taurus or something. It had a cable, when she pulled away in the car from the rental lot, she nearly put me in the back seat.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: XS650
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Is the muscle supplied by that vacuum actuator?

Yes.


That might 'splain some early dissatisfaction. I believe my C6 Corvette, 06 Acura TL and 05 Jetta TDI all use electricity for the muscle. I have no problems with any of them and don't notice that they are DBW in normal driving
 
Originally Posted By: JTK


Cable or wire, the PCM still reads & makes it's 'determination' based on the throttle position sensor from either style of TB. IMO, throttle by wire affords the manufacturers more flexibility in where/how the TB is mounted, allows for slightly less parts with respect to cruise control and allows for easy safety/security 'features'. Most wire systems wont allow you to rev the engine in park.

Joel


Of course, but the computer doesn't have to respond to what the throttle is doing. The pedal just changes the sensor value. The other parameters are totally under the control of the computer, including the actual position of the throttle.

Even cars that were not DBW limited in-neutral (meaning in park or in neutral) RPMs. I know automatic transmission Ford Contours limited in-neutral revving to about 4K RPMs. (I don't think stick shift cars had the same limitations.)
 
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Call me nuts, folks. I prefer the direct, mechanical linkage a throttle body cable provides. I'm a proponent of KISS.
 
DBW is a good companion for automatic transmissions. I don't like either! But they are a great combination for using the throttle as in a video game. I prefer to pay attention and work with the feedback myself.

Somewhat off topic: I haven't driven a CVT equipped car yet. That will be interesting. Conceptually it seems ideal. When they make CVT transmissions without a hydraulic torque converter I'll be excited.
 
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: XS650
...

Is the muscle supplied by that vacuum actuator?

Yes.


That might 'splain some early dissatisfaction. I believe my C6 Corvette, 06 Acura TL and 05 Jetta TDI all use electricity for the muscle. I have no problems with any of them and don't notice that they are DBW in normal driving


The auto TL seems to have the initial throttle % jacked up a bit. Mine and the ex's are very jumpy off the start until you get used to it. Seems as though it's artificially inflated to make the car feel torquier.

If I were a programmer of aftermarket chips I bet I could increase the initial throttle opening percentage and fool 90% of the ricers that buy them that the car is actually faster.
 
I have two vehicles with DBW that use it almost to the extreme with regards to the tuning. First is a 05 Mustang GT, before I had the PCM reflashed you would step on the gas pedal and there would be a two second delay before the engine kicked in. After the tune it drives a lot more responsive. The second is a 07 Silverado 1500 with the 6.0 VMAX. The throttle delay is almost 4 seconds. At WOT shifts, the PCM retards the timing so much that it feels like the truck is actually hitting the brakes. This is supposed to take the stress off of the trans, but some claim that when it is paired with the slippage of the clutch plates that is programed in the TCM, it actually increases trans temps and can shorten trans life. I will be getting the truck re-tuned shortly to take these features out. I do not abuse the truck that much and want to get all the horsepower out of the engine that I paid for. Plus the truck has a stability/traction control feature that will cut engine power even when you are trying to get the truck moving on a slippery surface. I have had the pedal floored in 2 inches of snow and the truck would not move. I had to disable both the traction control and the Stabilitrac to get out.
 
I'm not for the DBW/TBW interface either...I'd just like to be in the middle of it and not left at the mercy of a program. I guess in that case, I've been losing for some time now.

My '95 volvo has the retarded timing event during shifts of the automatic to lessen the strain, but I'd imagine that with increasing the number of speeds while making the automatic ever smaller, it's going to need greater buffering.?.

I suppose auto manufacturers are working towards the universal layout/platform and going by wire is going to make the whole things that much easier - it's the computer(s) and components networked together that get it all done, in tabled program response to sensor inputs and entered limits.

Throttle response could be changed in a flash, but as for what engine power is managed is still a matter of size and design.

Take care.
 
The DBW and Autotrans in my new Accord is smooth and sweet. It basicly works perfectly, with me locking it in 3rd for some hills. It's a great feature of the car and made me give up stick shift, for now.
 
Originally Posted By: rationull


Has anyone here done any work with DBW throttle hardware? Anyone have any idea as to realistic reliability/durability forecasts for these devices?


My 98 Corvette has drive by wire, and with 89,000 miles on it now it's performed flawlessly. What I really like about it is that you don't get that typical GM "surge" when touching the gas pedal lightly. GM always had their throttle bodies set up so agressively so that when you put 10% pressure on the gas pedal it opened up the throttle body 50%, so this made you think the engine was more powerful than it really was. Problem with that is that it made it hard to take off slowly on wet/snowy roads. Another nice thing about it is that in extreme cold the gas pedal never gets that "sticky" feeling that a cable operated system has.
 
Infinity engineered the G35 that way too. 2mm of throttle equals a neck-snapping launch, and if it's slippery out, here comes the traction control nannies to counteract something you didn't even intend to do. I drove my friend's 2005 G35 coupe to work monday (I'm housesitting at the moment) and you have to give some thought to what your right foot is doing when the light turns green. They need to dial that back a bit.
 
I like the concept of fly by wire- fewer things to break, fewer WAYS to break, easy to diagnose. And when you floor the pedal, the computer KNOWS to do whatever it can to give you 100% power. I know I've driven cars that need the throttle feathered to go as fast as possible, to ride the power curve if you will. Now the engineers can figure out a table of values and the car will, theoretically, be as responsive and as efficient as possible.

The downside with these things is that when they break, they usually just stop working. On the other hand, look at something like spark control computers- way, way, way, way more reliable and efficient than hall effect distributors or points. There are tons of cars that go their entire lives never needing any ignition work done. NONE. No changing distributor caps every 15,000 miles or adjusting points every 6000.

Of course, that assumes the engineers know what they are doing. I drove a Magnum with this system, and found it almost seamless. Except for a 1-2 second delay when you really wanted to pound on it.

OTOH, I drove a Nissan with it and really, really thought it performed better than a traditional one would.
 
We like it in combination with the automatic on our SX4. First time experiencing this technology, and so far, so good.

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
...Somewhat off topic: I haven't driven a CVT equipped car yet. That will be interesting. Conceptually it seems ideal. When they make CVT transmissions without a hydraulic torque converter I'll be excited.

The CVT is definitely an acquired taste. You got to try it out, it has a very unique feel... Very different than a regular auto.
 
Originally Posted By: swalve


The downside with these things is that when they break, they usually just stop working.


Same is true of a cable operated throttle body though. The cables have been known to break occasionally.
 
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