Don't like No Fault Auto Insurance

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George7941

Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
3,052
Location
Toronto, Canada
We have that system in Ontario, Caanda.

If someone bumps my truck from behind when I am slowing down for a red light and the accident is reported to authorities, I have to report the accident to my insurance company even if there is no significant damage to my truck and I do not need any repairs done. Every report I make to my insurance company is treated as a claim even if I am not asking for any repairs. Obviously the insurance company is not going to be happy if I file two or more claims, even if I was not at fault.

No Fault, in practice, is My Fault since I am forced to file a claim for non-existent damages and it goes on my record..
 
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TiGeo said:
If you aren't needing it fixed using insurance why do you have to report it? That's not how it works. Just that IF you want to make a claim it has to go through your insurance not the other person's.
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The exact scenario in my original post occurred to me. The guy who bumped me reported the accident to the Collision Reporting Centre (joint venture between the insurance companies and the police) because he needed his van repaired. The Centre called me and asked for my truck to be brought in so they could complete their report. The insurance companies are notified by the Centre. Then my insurance company calls me and asks me to file a report, even though I was not asking for repairs to my truck. The whole incident ended up as a claim on my record.

I hate the No Fault system. It encourages irresponsible driving.
 
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George7941 said:
The exact scenario in my original post occurred to me. The guy who bumped me reported the accident to the Collision Reporting Centre (joint venture between the insurance companies and the police) because he needed his van repaired. The Centre called me and asked for my truck to be brought in so they could complete their report. The insurance companies are notified by the Centre. Then my insurance company calls me and asks me to file a claim, even though I was not asking for repairs to my truck. The whole incident ended up as a claim on my record.
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Wow! No fault insurance is bizarre in itself. Your Ontario Collision Reporting Centre standard procedure is even more bizarre. It seems like many accidents would turn into a he said/she said confrontation. Yikes, what a mess. In the U.S. anyone rear ending someone else is immediately at fault and the police would issue them a ticket. Even in no fault states, your insurance company can go after the person at fault.

Your system is no fault/no win in any circumstance.

https://www.windsorpolice.ca/services/reporting/Collision-Reporting-Centre
 
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South Carolina, which is decidedly not no fault - demands you report to the DMV any accident involving more than $1000 in damage total. Its supposed to protect you if the other person files a claim against you later. Just another example of the insurance lobby owning the legislature.

Funny story. I was the front car of a multi car pile up - a truck hit the mini van behind me who hit me (light tap). My kids were small and sitting in the back. I pulled over and walked back to check everyone else.

The mini van was a a couple of people that appeared to me to be getting their whiplash story together. Not kidding.

The truck driver - was an older Colorado - was an older gentleman. His truck, which now had a hood like a tent and was puking fluid - looked like he had everything he owned in his truck. Might have been homeless.

Called 911. A nice female trooper showed up. She asked us a couple questions. Asked if I had any damage and I said no, was just a light tap - steel bumper. She asked if I wanted to be "part of this" and I said if I had a choice absolutely not. So she nicely sent us on our way.
 
George7941 said:
The exact scenario in my original post occurred to me. The guy who bumped me reported the accident to the Collision Reporting Centre (joint venture between the insurance companies and the police) because he needed his van repaired. The Centre called me and asked for my truck to be brought in so they could complete their report. The insurance companies are notified by the Centre. Then my insurance company calls me and asks me to file a claim, even though I was not asking for repairs to my truck. The whole incident ended up as a claim on my record.

I hate the No Fault system. It encourages irresponsible driving.
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Can you sue in small claims court as a tort? You didn’t cause the loss to yourself; you should be able to force the other party to make you whole. Not sure how it actually works where you are…
 
doitmyself said:
Wow! No fault insurance is bizarre in itself. Your Collision Reporting Centre standard procedure is even more bizarre. It seems like many accidents would turn into a he said/she said confrontation. Yikes, what a mess. In the U.S. anyone rear ending someone else is immediately at fault and the police would issue them a ticket. Even in no fault states, your insurance company can go after the person at fault.

Your system is no fault/no win in any circumstance.

https://www.windsorpolice.ca/services/reporting/Collision-Reporting-Centre
Click to expand...
Several states are "no fault" states. No idea how it works regarding traffic infractions and the police.

Do the insurance companies really go after each other? Seems to defeat the purpose?
 
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SubieRubyRoo said:
Can you sue in small claims court as a tort? You didn’t cause the loss to yourself; you should be able to force the other party to make you whole. Not sure how it actually works where you are…
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My understanding of the No Fault system is that you are prevented from suing the other party. Your own insurance company assumes all responsibility.
 
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George7941 said:
The guy who bumped me reported the accident to the Collision Reporting Centre (joint venture between the insurance companies and the police) because he needed his van repaired. The Centre called me and asked for my truck to be brought in so they could complete their report.
Click to expand...
Not doubting that this is what happened, but it makes no sense. Since "the other guy's" insurance isn't responsible, why do they need to be involved ? Even if the other person was lying about you being involved, who cares ? Since it always falls back on your insurance, the other party's insurance is irrelevant.
 
George7941 said:
My understanding of the No Fault system is that you are prevented from suing the other party. Your own insurance company assumes all responsibility.
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Maybe in Canada. In the U.S. (probably varies by state) you can still sue the other party under various circumstances.
 
The No Fa
Hall said:
Not doubting that this is what happened, but it makes no sense. Since "the other guy's" insurance isn't responsible, why do they need to be involved ? Even if the other person was lying about you being involved, who cares ? Since it always falls back on your insurance, the other party's insurance is irrelevant.
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Once the Collision Reporting Centre is aware of an incident, everybody becomes involved. They complete their report and send the report to both insurance companies.
 
Hall said:
Not doubting that this is what happened, but it makes no sense. Since "the other guy's" insurance isn't responsible, why do they need to be involved ? Even if the other person was lying about you being involved, who cares ? Since it always falls back on your insurance, the other party's insurance is irrelevant.
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Yes, very difficult to figure out. Google AI comes up with: "Ontario uses Collision Reporting Centers
to provide an accessible and efficient way for the public to report minor accidents, streamlining the process for drivers and reducing the burden on police resources while still meeting the Highway Traffic Act requirements for mandatory reporting of collisions involving injuries or damage exceeding the current threshold of $5,000. "

It seems to be a system to keep track of accidents without police input. I imagine they encourage both sides of the story to lessen fraudulent claims? It seems the system would be fraught with he said/she said scenarios.
 
SC Maintenance said:
Do the insurance companies really go after each other? Seems to defeat the purpose?
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doitmyself said:
Yes, it is called subrogation. My insurance would pay the costs initially, but they can go after the person-at-fault's insurance to recoup costs.
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We learned this years ago when a Progressive-insured driver hit my wife and kids (turned left in front of them so there's really zero doubt at who was at fault). Our insurance strongly advised us to let them process our claim. We initially thought, "no way, they're at fault", but after a week of non-response from Progressive for getting a rental (our van was totaled), we agreed and had a rental by the end of the day. The claims rep confirmed our kids ages and said "buy new car seats and send the receipts", which we did and were reimbursed within days (this was before electronic payments or transfers were common).

I have people whine or argue not to do this "cause your rates will go up". No, they will NOT. Your insurance is YOUR INSURANCE and they're certainly on your side much more than the other person's insurance ! The other insurance, in too many cases, doesn't give a poop about you or helping you. The only "downside" is they withheld our deductible from the check for our van. After they subrogated and "won", they sent us a check for the amount of our deductible.
 
I was involved in a minor accident 4 years ago that I was deemed 50% at fault but I didn’t get my Civic repaired because the damage was very minor (in fact my son helped me fix it). My insurance only went up by $4 a month. I’m with Belairdirect here in Ontario. Last week I was rear ended on the QEW in the Civic and that driver was found 100% at fault. The Civic will probably need $2000 in repairs. We’ll see if my rates go up next July. They are very low rates ($220 a year for both of my cars)
 
It also says that they(your insurance) assign you a fault of 0 25 50 75 or 100% and if its under 50% your rates wont be affected..
seems to be abit more to the Ontario system.
 
So if someone is found to be "at fault", their insurance is on the hook for damages. And insurance rates go up every year by me whether you have an accident, or not. I had a motorcycle accident 5 years ago and the guy didn't have enough coverage to satisfy the claim. We have un-underinsured coverage , just so you get paid. I didn't care what type of insurance we had as long as I got paid. The guy that hit me rates might have gone up, I don't know or care if it did, but the accident was deemed his fault. You can shop around for good rates, but what I've found is better rates mean less coverage. For you and the person you get into an accident with.,,
 
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