Donaldson "Burst Collapse" Rating

[ABursell]

Going down the rabbit hole of oil filters, I came across the Donaldson P169071 https://shop.donaldson.com/store/en-us/product/P169071/16389 -- something in the specs caught my attention. There is a listing for "Collapse Burst" in the specs. I am used to seeing a burst rating in the 200-300psi range (230psi for equivalent FRAM, 290psi for equivalent WIX), so it was very surprising to see this listed as 80psi. This leads me to believe that it is not referring to the burst rating of the can, but is something else. I thought I would try to verify and learn more, so I did an online chat and the Rep insisted that "This is the max pressure it will burst at." and when asked to verify "This is the actual collapse burst 80 PSI, which is the max pressure before bursting." Not being convinced, I finally asked the Rep to check with someone else, I was given an email to send my question off to. I'm going to fire this question off into a black hole and see if anything comes back, but does anyone have any insight on this? Am I overthinking this? I mean, it's not unusual for engines to see 80-100psi pressure when cold, it can't really be 80psi, right?

 

[twX]

I don't think the Donaldson rep is correct on that. The 80 psi spec is referring to the collapse pressure, not the burst pressure. The term "Collapse Burst Pressure" is confusing. They should really just call it the collapse pressure, and provide a separate spec for the burst pressure.

The collapse pressure is the differential pressure across the media and centre core that's required to cause the media and centre core to crush inward. The burst pressure is the pressure required to cause the canister to burst open.

I'd recommend that the collapse pressure be at least ~60% of the engine's maximum cold oil pressure, since the dP across the filter can briefly get very high on cold starts, even if the filter has a bypass valve. IMO, the burst pressure should be at least 200% of the engine's maximum cold oil pressure, to provide a healthy safety factor.

So that filter with an 80 psi collapse rating would be appropriate for an engine with a max oil pressure of up to ~130 psi in extreme cold conditions, so long as the burst pressure rating is at least 260 psi.

 

[Fair enough]

I don’t understand it at all. The oil pump has a relief valve, and there is a bypass valve for the oil filter. How is it possible to achieve burst at 200-300 psi? Oil pump relief stuck or too small? I have seen videos of the base gasket bursting.
Collapse burst pressure must mean the center tube collapsing pressure, I don’t know what else collapses in there. The oil pump relief valve would be closed at 80 psi though so a difference of 80 psi between the outside and inside of the element could be possible even with a bypass valve in the filter fully opened.

 

[twX]

I don’t understand it at all. The oil pump has a relief valve, and there is a bypass valve for the oil filter. How is it possible to achieve burst at 200-300 psi? Oil pump relief stuck or too small? I have seen videos of the base gasket bursting.

Some engines can easily produce over 150 psi at higher rpm when the oil is cold. Pressure relief valves typically allow oil pressure to get much higher than the cracking pressure, often over twice as high.

Filter canisters also fatigue and weaken with pressure cycles, which the burst pressure test doesn't account for. There's a separate test for that, typically done at around half the pressure of the burst rating. Then there's the possibility of quality control issues, corrosion, etc. You'll want the burst pressure rating to be much higher than the maximum engine oil pressure.

 

[Fair enough]

Some engines can easily produce over 150 psi at higher rpm when the oil is cold. Pressure relief valves typically allow oil pressure to get much higher than the cracking pressure, often over twice as high.

Filter canisters also fatigue and weaken with pressure cycles, which the burst pressure test doesn't account for. There's a separate test for that, typically done at around half the pressure of the burst rating. Then there's the possibility of quality control issues, corrosion, etc. You'll want the burst pressure rating to be much higher than the maximum engine oil pressure.

So Donaldson specifies the center tube will withstand 80 psi in pressure gradient. Good to know that if one owns a piece of earth moving equipment probably. Because they can’t be talking about the can burst strength.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yep, it's got to be the filter center tube collapse pressure.

 

[ABursell]

Yep, it's got to be the filter center tube collapse pressure.

Sounds like we all agree - I knew something had to be up! Glad the Rep seems to be wrong in this case. I feel much better about trying one of these now.

 

[oil pan 4]

Going down the rabbit hole of oil filters, I came across the Donaldson P169071 https://shop.donaldson.com/store/en-us/product/P169071/16389 -- something in the specs caught my attention. There is a listing for "Collapse Burst" in the specs. I am used to seeing a burst rating in the 200-300psi range (230psi for equivalent FRAM, 290psi for equivalent WIX), so it was very surprising to see this listed as 80psi. This leads me to believe that it is not referring to the burst rating of the can, but is something else. I thought I would try to verify and learn more, so I did an online chat and the Rep insisted that "This is the max pressure it will burst at." and when asked to verify "This is the actual collapse burst 80 PSI, which is the max pressure before bursting." Not being convinced, I finally asked the Rep to check with someone else, I was given an email to send my question off to. I'm going to fire this question off into a black hole and see if anything comes back, but does anyone have any insight on this? Am I overthinking this? I mean, it's not unusual for engines to see 80-100psi pressure when cold, it can't really be 80psi, right?

80 to 100 psi across the filter media can cause it to crush the inner tube.
The only way this ever seems to happen is running a 15w, 20w or straight 30 weight oil when it's well below freezing.
When the oils really thick the oil pump relief valve can't bypass the oil at higher RPMs and the bypass can't handle the flow to the engine and squish.

Thread 'Oil filter crush temperature, with no bypass.'

Aug 20, 2024

Say you work with r tards and an oil filter is just an oil filter to them.
The correct oil filters have a bypass. Replacements ordered and put into service did not. The wrong part number was used or someone found a no bypass hydraulic filter that happens to fit and used it.
What might the filter implosion temperature be with 15w-40 oil assuming nice fresh oil and like new filter?
The engine block may or may not contain a filter bypass somewhere all I know is I definitely can not see a filter bypass looking up into the filter to engine block adaptor.

• oil pan 4
• bypass oil filter
• Replies: 54
• Forum: Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) - Diesel Vehicles

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