domestic or foreign

[H2GURU]

simple,
I had this exact same dilemma several years ago and while thumbing through the WANT-AD (a 200 page weekly w/ items for sale) I couldn't help but notice the EXTREMELY high # of Asian makes w/over 200,000 miles for sale. Then while my FORD P/U was in for more head gasket work my mechanic let me rent his 10 year old Camry w/ 250,000 miles on it and Everything and I mean eveything in this car still worked as new! This sold me. Up until this point I knew of the high ratings in Consumer's Reports but thought these were somehow slanted. After several years and our second Toyota I don't think anything could get me back. It is a tussle over the 'BE AMERICAN- BUY AMERICAN" thing, but there does come a point when you have to do the right thing for YOU.

 

[1sttruck]

In general it seems that Japanese vehicles are more reliable but you really need to look at model vs model. Our 87 Civic was toast at 120k miles; compression down on one cylinder, blowing lots of blue smoke at start up, even though it had been reliable. Our 93 Taurus has gone thru a lot of parts but it's still running at almost 200k miles. A friend got rid of a Toyota Land Cruiser because it was in the shop a lot and eventually developed a gas consumption problem that the dealer couldn't fix. Honda is having problems with automatics, Toyota had problems with sludge, etc., and everyone has had lots of recalls.

 

[Amkeer]

Well had my starter rebuilt today. It took 2.5 hours for RR and rebuild starter at $165. This is with my 95 4-Runner at 100,000 on it. The rebuild was $100, RR $65. Total outlay for repairs on this truck is $245 in the 6 years I have owned it. I would have yanked the starter myself, but no time. I have a broken power antenna. Not in a rush to fix.

Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner,2.7 liter, 4 cylinder, Mobil 1 5w30 ODO 19200
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner,3.0 liter,6 cylinder, Mobil 1 10w30 ODO 99100
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer

 

[simple]

quote:

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Originally posted by kingrob:
simple:

You (and many others) are sadly mistaken if you believe that buying Asian means you will have a problem free car. FWIW every car almost that I owned over 100k foreign and domestic has had a water pump replacement. BFDeal. Fuel pumps fail, though I've never had one do that. And GM's Japanese built altenators (OEM on both your vehicles) are notoriously failure prone. In fact, the only thing sort of out of the ordinary on your list is the head gasket, I've only blown one in my whole life.

And please look at the age and mileage of your vehicles. They're not brand new! Expect having to do something every once in a while to keep them running. At least you're not having to rebuild the engine in a '97 Corolla because of the sludge damage like my neighbor

---

First I appreciate your feedback, and everyone's so far. Let me break this down:

You mentioned that almost every car you owned had a water pump replacement at over 100,000 miles.
The first water pump went out on the Bonneville at 38,000 back in 2001. I replaced that one with a new GM one and it went out in September of this year. I hate to say it, but in my opinion, this shouldn't happen. (2 water pumps in 8 years)

You mentioned that GM's alternators are failure prone? Then why should I continue to buy GM stuff then?

You mentioned that age and mileage of my vehicles. I'm sorry, but a vehicle with 115,000 and another with 93,000 isn't a lot in my opinion.
Getting up there? Yes, but it still should have a long life left if it's maintained right, which I do. You don't know me and I don't know you. I keep my vehicles in very good condition, and I mean good! I pamper my ladies. Be thankful I'm not rebuilding an engine? Uh, did that, done that with the 1993 GMC Sonoma I once had. The engine had only 94,000 miles on it.

Yes, I do expect to do some things once and a while, and I have over the years, but if you look at my list in my very first post, I think this is getting extreme. I've spent close to $2,000.00 since June of this year fixing my vehicles, and that's this year alone.

[ October 14, 2005, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: simple ]

 

[Shaman]

With ever car company in bed with every other car company, brand loyalty is just encouraging laziness and substandard products. Take a look at most of the plastic that Chebby has come out with lately. On the other hand, Hyundai, Elantra in specific,who has been improving, has gotten ranked with best in initial quality, and best gas mileage behind a hybrid, has been giving those who are happy where they are something to worry about.

Loyalty should go no farther than an engine or body.

 

[michaelc80]

I have not had good luck with any of the GM's that I've owned in the past. Ford seems to be a bit better, but I've always had electrical gremlins in the Fords. The cars that I've been the most impressed with are my wifes 96 Cherokee (nothing but standard maintenance since new) and the Nissans that I own. The Nissans have been trouble free other than normal maintenance (the 87 Sentra needed some catch up work because of neglect). Never an alternator replaced. The 300Z had a water pump replaced, but that was standard when doing the timing belts, not because it had failed.

When I decided to purchase another new vehicle last spring I test drove lots of brands. Quite honestly neither GM or Ford were impressive especially in the smaller car department. I settled on a Subaru because it offered something no domestic did-all wheel drive with excellent fuel mileage.

10,000 miles into the Subaru ownership I have had zero problems. The car is fun to drive, does everything I ask of it, gets great fuel mileage and has not had anything done other than the oil changed.

 

[Eddie]

I think inconsistancy is a big problem with American cars. One cars goes 100,000 miles with few problems and the same year, same model is in the shop time after time. That to me indicates lack of QA starting from square one ie the basic material.

 

[simple]

All I know is I'm going to be having a long talk with my mechanic on Monday about my Bonny and GM in general. Will I buy another GM vehicle? At this point I have no idea. I'm not crazy about Ford or Dodge either.

 

[labman]

Any domestic vs imports thread needs to mention the Honda main relay.

 

[Craig]

My loyalty goes to where the car is built. Brand is secondary.

I purchased my '04 Acura TL because:
It's an extremely neat/great car
Built in Ohio, by Americans who pay local/state/federal income
taxes and spend their money in the USA.
It is 65% American content.
The plant built in Ohio was built by Americans and probably was
a Billion + investment.
The car retains 52% of it's value after 5 years.
Outstanding service.

So I feel my car is way more American than a Chrysler minivan
built in Canada. (just an example, no slam intended)

We must get rid of or modify NAFTA. It is financially killing the
states.
JMHO.
Craig

 

[Amkeer]

quote:

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Originally posted by H2GURU:
Amkeer,
Too bad you didn't have time as I believe there is a brush kit sold for this unit and it is a fairly easy job. Only posted this in case one of the BITOGERS has a similar truck. Instructions are at 4x4 wire .com under Maintenance.

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H2 thanks! I realize that its a pretty straightforward fix its just that I have not had time to get under the vehicle and pull it. I needed the vehicle back in good order for the wife quick.

Link:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter/

 

[brianl703]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eddie:
One cars goes 100,000 miles with few problems and the same year, same model is in the shop time after time. That to me indicates lack of QA starting from square one ie the basic material.

---

In my experience, pattern failures are much more likely than random failures.

As far as being in the shop all of the time..

The service records I got with my 1988 Mustang GT lead me to conclude the following:

1)It was in the shop a lot

2)The shop (Ford dealership) apparently believed in shotgun-troubleshooting (replace a part without doing diagnostics and pray that fixes the problem)

I came to the conclusion that #2 lead to #1.

The last problems I had with my Mustang have been thermactor air solenoids and fuel injectors, neither of which resulted in it being undrivable and both of which are pattern failures: Those Bosch Design I fuel injectors are known to develop external leaks after years in service, and the thermactor air solenoids are known to leak after years in service.

Both the injectors and the solenoids I replaced them with are updated (I used Bosch Design II injectors), so presumably, if I still have the car at 320K miles, I won't have these problems again.

 

[H2GURU]

Amkeer,
Too bad you didn't have time as I believe there is a brush kit sold for this unit and it is a fairly easy job. Only posted this in case one of the BITOGERS has a similar truck. Instructions are at 4x4 wire .com under Maintenance.

 

[The_Jeff]

quote:

---

Originally posted by brianl703:


1)You won't have to somehow manage to get to your local dealer's parts dept. during the bankers hours they're open (only to be told that no, not all of the parts you ordered are in).

---

hehehe right on.

I was changing the valve seals on my saturn SOHC the other week with the head still on the car and the cylinder full of compressed air. With the spring off the head the compressor slipped and my valve spring and keeper-retainer went flying off into the woods. I found the spring but the keeper-retainer was history.

My dealer had none of this part in stock and could locate none in my state. Furthermore this part is unchanged for the 12 year model year run of that SOHC motor in the only car they sold for nine years. They are too busy selling polo shirts, coffee mugs, and genuine saturn fram oil filters.

Wound up buying what I needed at a junkyard.

 

[charbaby]

My buddy Tommy, purchaced an '01 Chevrolet Impala in May '04 with 42,000 miles on the clock. He din not pruchace an extended servece plan for $1600.oo....Since that time, he has replaced the intake manifold gasket, heater blower motor, windshield wiper motor, now the transmission is gone due to antifreeze mixing with the ATF somehow! So a new radiator and transmission are needed. 3 different transmission shops have diagnosed the same thing and, all said they have seen this before, although rare. There is only 56,000 miles on the odo at this time....Tommy says that's why he switched to Toyota 20 + years ago and is now going to return to them. Never had a problem with Toyota's in 150,000-200,000 miles Tommy says.

 

[kloppilt]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
Any domestic vs imports thread needs to mention the Honda main relay.

---

Good old Honda main relay. Takes about half an hour to repair it if one can solder.

 

[kingrob]

quote:

---

Good old Honda main relay. Takes about half an hour to repair it if one can solder.

---

I'm not sure of the logistics/ease/simplicity of the repair, but I know it cost my buddy ~800.00 to repair at the dealer. That and the plastic radiator he has to replace every few years.

 

[labman]

The nice thing about the Honda main relay is that it is intermittent. Car won't start when it is hot. Have it towed to the garage, and there isn't any they can find wrong with it. Of course, the dealer doesn't solder it, they replace it with another that fails.

 

[ex_MGB]

Yeah, did a main relay on my used '89 Accord. Sure is nice having the internet to find a forum and search up cause based on symtoms, get a repair procedure then order the part online.

I'd love to see GM or Ford come out with a youth vehicle specifically designed for ease of maintenance. Back it up with a nice internet website with procedures and factory direct parts ordering. Maybe have a USB port on the car so you could download your codes to a USB drive then send online and have the GM software analyze and suggest repairs.

 

[brianl703]

The stuff I read on the http://www.noln.net website indicates that Gen Y typically doesn't even want to change their own oil, let alone do anything more complicated with their cars.

This article here:

http://www.noln.net/columns/6-05/columns/citgo.htm

"Second, this is the first generation of youth - Generation Y - that is very reliant on service providers for even basic maintenance solutions. Generation Y consumers, those born between 1981 and 2002, account for 28 percent of our total population, and as they mature they will continue to have a significant impact on the fast lube industry."