I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Does thinner oil heat up more quickly on start up?
- Thread starter FZ1
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Here's a link from a quick Google search. Looks like there are some out there.
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/automotive_water_to_oil_cooler_kit.html
I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Here's a link from a quick Google search. Looks like there are some out there.
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/automotive_water_to_oil_cooler_kit.html
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Aftermarket? Not too many I know of. OEM ..plenty. Everything from motorcycles to boats. It all depends on what you're looking for. A sandwich can be made to work for just about any engine. It may take some tap dancing. If you're willing to do some plumbing, then any boat heat exchanger will work fine.
I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Aftermarket? Not too many I know of. OEM ..plenty. Everything from motorcycles to boats. It all depends on what you're looking for. A sandwich can be made to work for just about any engine. It may take some tap dancing. If you're willing to do some plumbing, then any boat heat exchanger will work fine.
Last edited:
No,man. You got it wrong.....again. The paper quoted by Gary in post #1544320 states that low coolant temperature is responsible for most of the wear. So,my observation,if correct,is that thinner oil, on start up, allows the engine and coolant to warm slightly faster than thicker oil.The result that follows is that thinner oil would cause less initial wear than thicker oil on start up. It ain't a flow question;It's a temperature question.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
No,man. You got it wrong.....again. The paper quoted by Gary in post #1544320 states that low coolant temperature is responsible for most of the wear. So,my observation,if correct,is that thinner oil, on start up, allows the engine and coolant to warm slightly faster than thicker oil.The result that follows is that thinner oil would cause less initial wear than thicker oil on start up. It ain't a flow question;It's a temperature question.
Sounds like a plausible theory to me.
No,man. You got it wrong.....again. The paper quoted by Gary in post #1544320 states that low coolant temperature is responsible for most of the wear. So,my observation,if correct,is that thinner oil, on start up, allows the engine and coolant to warm slightly faster than thicker oil.The result that follows is that thinner oil would cause less initial wear than thicker oil on start up. It ain't a flow question;It's a temperature question.
Sounds like a plausible theory to me.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
No,man. You got it wrong.....again. The paper quoted by Gary in post #1544320 states that low coolant temperature is responsible for most of the wear. So,my observation,if correct,is that thinner oil, on start up, allows the engine and coolant to warm slightly faster than thicker oil.The result that follows is that thinner oil would cause less initial wear than thicker oil on start up. It ain't a flow question;It's a temperature question.
I'm not wrong, I haven't been wrong yet. You have been wrong on every point.
I'm very well aware of coolant temps and their effect on cylinder wear. I'm not sure why you're putting words into my mouth other than to win an argument at any cost.
Show me where the thin oil heats up quicker than a thick oil.
Since you ignored it the last time I posted it, does thin oil heat up faster or does it run cooler. You can't have it both ways. You change the argument to fit your needs.
No,man. You got it wrong.....again. The paper quoted by Gary in post #1544320 states that low coolant temperature is responsible for most of the wear. So,my observation,if correct,is that thinner oil, on start up, allows the engine and coolant to warm slightly faster than thicker oil.The result that follows is that thinner oil would cause less initial wear than thicker oil on start up. It ain't a flow question;It's a temperature question.
I'm not wrong, I haven't been wrong yet. You have been wrong on every point.
I'm very well aware of coolant temps and their effect on cylinder wear. I'm not sure why you're putting words into my mouth other than to win an argument at any cost.
Show me where the thin oil heats up quicker than a thick oil.
Since you ignored it the last time I posted it, does thin oil heat up faster or does it run cooler. You can't have it both ways. You change the argument to fit your needs.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Aftermarket? Not too many I know of. OEM ..plenty. Everything from motorcycles to boats. It all depends on what you're looking for. A sandwich can be made to work for just about any engine. It may take some tap dancing. If you're willing to do some plumbing, then any boat heat exchanger will work fine.
I'd like to if I could find an easy, elegant fitment. A possible alternate answer is an air flow diverter or shroud covering the ali' sump but with some way of remotely opening it up as required.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I haven't done any research on it but does anyone know if coolant to oil heat exchangers available in the aftermarket?
Aftermarket? Not too many I know of. OEM ..plenty. Everything from motorcycles to boats. It all depends on what you're looking for. A sandwich can be made to work for just about any engine. It may take some tap dancing. If you're willing to do some plumbing, then any boat heat exchanger will work fine.
I'd like to if I could find an easy, elegant fitment. A possible alternate answer is an air flow diverter or shroud covering the ali' sump but with some way of remotely opening it up as required.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: FZ1
It appears that some other posters agree with me that a thinner substance will heat more quickly than a thicker substance. Did you have a chemistry set as a child?
Gary already answered this part of it:
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Thicker oils are harder to shear. They generate more friction and heat in doing so. They require more power to pump them.
Keep in mind (as Bryan is trying to state) you're always on a sliding scale of view when talking about viscosity and temp. Except for the differences in starting and ending viscs, both will transition through the same viscosity at different times and temps.
Heavier oil, in my observations, has a steeper initial curve in warming, but no difference in overall length (time to normalized temp -whatever that may be).
And YOU have stated in NUMEROUS threads that heavier oils "run hotter" or "make the engine run hotter" because they are harder to pump, yet in this thread, you are now arguing that thin oil will get the engine up to temperature quicker. So, as BuickGN stated, WHICH IS IT? "man" ?
It appears that some other posters agree with me that a thinner substance will heat more quickly than a thicker substance. Did you have a chemistry set as a child?
Gary already answered this part of it:
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Thicker oils are harder to shear. They generate more friction and heat in doing so. They require more power to pump them.
Keep in mind (as Bryan is trying to state) you're always on a sliding scale of view when talking about viscosity and temp. Except for the differences in starting and ending viscs, both will transition through the same viscosity at different times and temps.
Heavier oil, in my observations, has a steeper initial curve in warming, but no difference in overall length (time to normalized temp -whatever that may be).
And YOU have stated in NUMEROUS threads that heavier oils "run hotter" or "make the engine run hotter" because they are harder to pump, yet in this thread, you are now arguing that thin oil will get the engine up to temperature quicker. So, as BuickGN stated, WHICH IS IT? "man" ?
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Lol. Both appear to be true. So,I guess you didn't have one either?
You're embarassing yourself. Just trying to help.
If the thin oil "weighs" less then it's possible though I doubt you could measure the difference. That's a big if.
Lol. Both appear to be true. So,I guess you didn't have one either?
You're embarassing yourself. Just trying to help.
If the thin oil "weighs" less then it's possible though I doubt you could measure the difference. That's a big if.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Lol. Both appear to be true. So,I guess you didn't have one either?
You're embarassing yourself. Just trying to help.
If the thin oil "weighs" less then it's possible though I doubt you could measure the difference. That's a big if.
He is a prominent member of team "FAIL" in a thread entitled "Epic Confusion" where the fact that he lacks direction or base is the least of his worries
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Lol. Both appear to be true. So,I guess you didn't have one either?
You're embarassing yourself. Just trying to help.
If the thin oil "weighs" less then it's possible though I doubt you could measure the difference. That's a big if.
He is a prominent member of team "FAIL" in a thread entitled "Epic Confusion" where the fact that he lacks direction or base is the least of his worries
I doubt the ADBV is much of an issue on how fast the oil heats up. Even if it fails completely, oil is up to pressure in seconds.
Now, consider laminar flow. I have no clue where to find the data to calculate a Reynold's number on oil flowing in a gallery. I say it is laminar,and will let somebody else prove it is turbulent.
You have a layer of non flowing oil right at the wall and faster flow towards the center. The more viscous the oil, the slower the flow next to the wall where it adsorbs heat. A lower viscosity oil should pick up more heat from th ewall of the gallery.
As for heavier oils running hotter, that may be true, but how hot an oil runs is different from how fast it gets up to temperature.
Now, consider laminar flow. I have no clue where to find the data to calculate a Reynold's number on oil flowing in a gallery. I say it is laminar,and will let somebody else prove it is turbulent.
You have a layer of non flowing oil right at the wall and faster flow towards the center. The more viscous the oil, the slower the flow next to the wall where it adsorbs heat. A lower viscosity oil should pick up more heat from th ewall of the gallery.
As for heavier oils running hotter, that may be true, but how hot an oil runs is different from how fast it gets up to temperature.
Well,boys. It would appear the explanation is that 2 separate processes are involved. The initial start up warming is caused the combustion process so the thinner oil would appear to warm first. Subsequent to the warming up process,the thinner oil will run cooler because the thinner oil creates less friction,all other things being equal. That's the way it appears to me. BTW,I think they still have them chemistry sets for sale.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Well,boys. It would appear the explanation is that 2 separate processes are involved. The initial start up warming is caused the combustion process so the thinner oil would appear to warm first. Subsequent to the warming up process,the thinner oil will run cooler because the thinner oil creates less friction,all other things being equal. That's the way it appears to me. BTW,I think they still have them chemistry sets for sale.
Well, how about you guy and buy an oil temperature gauge and TRY it and see. Otherwise it is just theory. I believe Gary actually HAS an oil temp gauge, but I'll let him clarify on that one.
Well,boys. It would appear the explanation is that 2 separate processes are involved. The initial start up warming is caused the combustion process so the thinner oil would appear to warm first. Subsequent to the warming up process,the thinner oil will run cooler because the thinner oil creates less friction,all other things being equal. That's the way it appears to me. BTW,I think they still have them chemistry sets for sale.
Well, how about you guy and buy an oil temperature gauge and TRY it and see. Otherwise it is just theory. I believe Gary actually HAS an oil temp gauge, but I'll let him clarify on that one.
Originally Posted By: labman
I doubt the ADBV is much of an issue on how fast the oil heats up. Even if it fails completely, oil is up to pressure in seconds.
Who said the ADBV has anything to do with the rate at which an oil heats up? I said with all this worry about how many miliseconds it takes to get flow and pressure, maybe we should worry about the best ADBV. Now keep in mind you said "oil is up to pressure in seconds". When it suits you, I'm sure I'll hear that it takes minutes for a thick oil to build pressure.
Originally Posted By: labman
Now, consider laminar flow. I have no clue where to find the data to calculate a Reynold's number on oil flowing in a gallery. I say it is laminar,and will let somebody else prove it is turbulent.
And??
Originally Posted By: labman
You have a layer of non flowing oil right at the wall and faster flow towards the center. The more viscous the oil, the slower the flow next to the wall where it adsorbs heat. A lower viscosity oil should pick up more heat from th ewall of the gallery.
What is this wall you speak of? The galleys aren't where the oil picks up any major heat. It picks up heat from the underside of the pistons, to some degree the cylinders during the warmup cycle, and flowing over the heads. Again, it seems that someone has not been inside an engine before.
Suppose you're right about the slower stuff being near the sides of a galley heating up more lol. Why wouldn't it pick up heat just as fast as a fast moving oil? Why would a thick oil be the only one that behaves like this. Thin oil doesn't follow this principal?
Originally Posted By: labman
As for heavier oils running hotter, that may be true, but how hot an oil runs is different from how fast it gets up to temperature.
I see. So we can just pick and choose which theory we want to go with based on the argument at the time.
You're really grasping at straws with that one.
I doubt the ADBV is much of an issue on how fast the oil heats up. Even if it fails completely, oil is up to pressure in seconds.
Who said the ADBV has anything to do with the rate at which an oil heats up? I said with all this worry about how many miliseconds it takes to get flow and pressure, maybe we should worry about the best ADBV. Now keep in mind you said "oil is up to pressure in seconds". When it suits you, I'm sure I'll hear that it takes minutes for a thick oil to build pressure.
Originally Posted By: labman
Now, consider laminar flow. I have no clue where to find the data to calculate a Reynold's number on oil flowing in a gallery. I say it is laminar,and will let somebody else prove it is turbulent.
And??
Originally Posted By: labman
You have a layer of non flowing oil right at the wall and faster flow towards the center. The more viscous the oil, the slower the flow next to the wall where it adsorbs heat. A lower viscosity oil should pick up more heat from th ewall of the gallery.
What is this wall you speak of? The galleys aren't where the oil picks up any major heat. It picks up heat from the underside of the pistons, to some degree the cylinders during the warmup cycle, and flowing over the heads. Again, it seems that someone has not been inside an engine before.
Suppose you're right about the slower stuff being near the sides of a galley heating up more lol. Why wouldn't it pick up heat just as fast as a fast moving oil? Why would a thick oil be the only one that behaves like this. Thin oil doesn't follow this principal?
Originally Posted By: labman
As for heavier oils running hotter, that may be true, but how hot an oil runs is different from how fast it gets up to temperature.
I see. So we can just pick and choose which theory we want to go with based on the argument at the time.
You're really grasping at straws with that one.
- Status
Similar threads
