Does synthetic clean better than conventional

Pennzoil motor oil
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wally6934

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I have been looking at UOA reports to find high calcium motor oils for engine cleaning.

UOA for Pennzoil 5W30 High Mileage and ultra are as follows.

HM, Calcium about 2800

Ultra, Calcium about 2800

So no big difference in calcium levels. Now the tricky part. Ultra is synthetic and High Mileage is conventional. Does this really effect the cleaning ability of the oil?

This chart from Pennzoil would imply that ultra is at least 2X better and HM.

http://www.pennzoil.com/technology-of-clean/motor-oil-comparisons/

Any real world experience out there?
 
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To be fair, I don't think there has been anything posted on this site that shows oil by itself has any cleaning abilities, just some oils are better at keeping things clean than others.
 
I thing the main thing is changing at reasonable intervals to keep things clean, but yes. Synthetic does do a better job.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
To be fair, I don't think there has been anything posted on this site that shows oil by itself has any cleaning abilities, just some oils are better at keeping things clean than others.


Sure there has. There have been threads where people showed before and after photos of neglected engines (missed oil changes, low oil level, very lousy filter).

Modern API SN oils clean very well, even in conventional form.
 
The Valvoline 0w20 im currently running appears (seat of pants) to keep the rings free better than the Quaker State Ultimate Durability I was using. Im not overly concerned about a light varnish on the exhaust runners on the head interior floor under the valvetrain assy - but more concerned about fuel carryover and sump dilution due to sticky ring stacks.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm


Modern API SN oils clean very well, even in conventional form.


I wish that was the case for my 2000 Century having religious 3K Dino OC's its entire life including the new SN conventional oils. The valve train was far from clean after 85K miles when I took it from my father. It took me a lot more than oil to clean it up. Next OC I will be changing over to Havoline Synthetic and see if that does any additional cleaning.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I wish that was the case for my 2000 Century having religious 3K Dino OC's its entire life including the new SN conventional oils. The valve train was far from clean after 85K miles when I took it from my father. It took me a lot more than oil to clean it up. Next OC I will be changing over to Havoline Synthetic and see if that does any additional cleaning.


Do you mean the valve train just had varnish, or was it sludge. I am looking for an oil to recommend to friends to clean up sludge engines.
 
At 250K miles, the rocker arms/springs/lifter valley looked great. The underside of the plastic valve covers had the varnish look. Most of the miles were on WM bulk and OCOD or worse. I've gone to better oil and filters, now, but only because they raised the OC prices.

I am curious how ARCO can feel sticking rings, though? That seems like sitting on a wristwatch and being able to tell what time it is.
 
2 opposing forces at play:

a solvent cleans but doesn't lubrcates; on the other side of the spectrum: a lubricant lubricates but doesn't cleans.

A motor oil blender will have to find a happy medium and still be able to satisfy various factory specifications, ILSAC and API specifications.

modern motor oil should be, at least, be able to keep itself clean longer and better than most motor oils of yore, regardless of syn or not.

My take has been to tackle base oil's decomposition to keep the oil intact so as to provide longer, if not useful service life (regardless of syn or not)....that way: less chance for deposit forming (thus engine will be cleaner, longer).

Q.
 
Some of the higher level OTC synthetics have high detergent levels... PP, PU and Mobil 1 High Mileage come to mind.

Amsoil has a couple mixes with whopper doses of calcuim though, like 3000ppm.
thumbsup2.gif


OP not sure where you got your figures, but Pennzoil High Mileage has about 2300-2400 ppm calcium just like Pennzoil conventional does. PP and PU are around 2,600 ppm. The old SM Ultra had close to 3000 ppm calcium though maybe that's what you saw.

Maxlife is rarely mentioned when cleaning discussions come up, yet it has a higher detergent/dispesant pack than Pennzoil conventional at 2500-2600 ppm.

I have had very little luck cleaning an already dirty engine with any oil, keeping one clean is much easier to do than cleaning a dirty one.
 
many years ago we had a 1986 Jetta 1.8 German built car purchased new that we put Valvoline and Fram every 3k. At 90k? I tried Valvoline semi synthetic the first time. Quickly the oil pressure light came on and stayed on. I changed the sender and overfilled, no joy. Ended up taking to indy VW - Porsche - MB etc. shop. They changed oil and problem went away. They said the initial fill of semi synthetic acted as a purge / laxative and flushed lots of sludge into the new Fram, which clogged it up.Don't know why all those o.c. didn't keep it clean.Everything good after that.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I have had very little luck cleaning an already dirty engine with any oil, keeping one clean is much easier to do than cleaning a dirty one.


Do you remember any of the details of oil not cleaning a dirty engine.
 
Originally Posted By: wally6934
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I wish that was the case for my 2000 Century having religious 3K Dino OC's its entire life including the new SN conventional oils. The valve train was far from clean after 85K miles when I took it from my father. It took me a lot more than oil to clean it up. Next OC I will be changing over to Havoline Synthetic and see if that does any additional cleaning.


Do you mean the valve train just had varnish, or was it sludge. I am looking for an oil to recommend to friends to clean up sludge engines.



The question would be, is that engine prone to sludge due to a design flaw, or did it just develop sludge from neglect/abuse?
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: wally6934


Do you mean the valve train just had varnish, or was it sludge. I am looking for an oil to recommend to friends to clean up sludge engines.


Heavy varnish, a little sludge. Here's a link with some pics.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/my-kreen-test.183329/


Sorry chief, in that thread Kreen was used WITH synthetic oil.


As far as cleaning, and I mean real cleaning where heavy varnish or sludge is removed, or visibly reduced, I have yet to see any tangible proof that it actually happens. We've seen people showing some small specs cought in the oil filter after uising synthetic, but mostly the discussions revolved around marketing claims and the amounts of certain additives in the oils.

I have no doubt that some cleaning always happens with fresh oil, just as with any fresh fluid added to old fluid, but I don't think it's anything significant. As someone mentioned above solvents don't lubricate.
 
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Originally Posted By: dparm


The question would be, is that engine prone to sludge due to a design flaw, or did it just develop sludge from neglect/abuse?


My father was the original owner and the car, I have every invoice for the services and the miles logged. The oil was changed like clockwork every 3K miles [with conventional oil], most of which was done by the dealer, some Avis Lube, and a local shop. So neglect/abuse is out of the question. There are no mechanical issues what so ever with the engine. Is the 3.1L engine a sludge monster? Was the severe service user profile the car was used under the issue? Or did Conventional Oil changed every 3K not live up to the task? I don't know. What I do know is the car was properly maintained, over kill many would say.
 
Originally Posted By: wally6934
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I have had very little luck cleaning an already dirty engine with any oil, keeping one clean is much easier to do than cleaning a dirty one.


Do you remember any of the details of oil not cleaning a dirty engine.


My Jeep was neglected by PO's and is clearly grundgy through the fill hole. I've had it 30k, in that time it's had Rotella, Pennzoil conventional, Valvoline MaxLife, Castrol High Mileage and this or that. Nothing has seemed to make any significant difference although 30k later I do believe it looks slightly better through the fill hole than when I started.

Doses of MMO always darkened the oil quickly. Castrol High Mileage did make a visible difference in my daughter's old Chevy, but not my Jeep although it got really, really black in the Jeep.

Next up is German Castrol, first Full Synthetic I've used in it so we'll see.

A combo of Rotella T5 and MMO did seem to make a visible improvement against the varnish in our old Chevy van as well, I'd forgotten about that one.
 
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