does oil become diluted over time?

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what i mean by that is do fuel, water, combustion gases, etc. contaminate the oil over long OCIs? wouldn't this risk of damaging your engine outweigh the slight cost benefit of extending oil life as long as you possibly can? just seems to me that the best way to prolong engine life would be to get fresh oil in there as often as possible
 
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Yeah lot's of long OCI believers and a couple of fruit cakes that do 18/24 mo OCI's
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http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1281659
 
Dude, those pics are making me hungry!
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Actually, I was (past tense!) enjoying a midnight snack. That's some nasty goop!
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Agree, and also can't comprehend: Those fools buy a $40+K car, then ruin it by refusing to change $15 worth of oil.
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Originally Posted By: jmsjags
what i mean by that is do fuel, water, combustion gases, etc. contaminate the oil over long OCIs? wouldn't this risk of damaging your engine outweigh the slight cost benefit of extending oil life as long as you possibly can? just seems to me that the best way to prolong engine life would be to get fresh oil in there as often as possible


Barring what every one else has already posted, I'll add that there's a difference between neglect and not wanting to be wasteful. With a UOA you have data. If you use that data correctliy, you can make an informed decision, and get away from the need to stick with wasteful, too-short OCI that pervades the average DIYer's mind.
 
To be honest, yes oil becomes "diluted" over time. But let us be more specific about that "dilution", and the time surrounding it.

Sure, if it's 20 years old and been sitting on the shelf, the additive package will be way out of date, and probably have seperated in the bottle and settled. This is an extreme that most all of us will agree doesn't warrant even putting the stuff in the crackcase. Or, if you've stored a vehicle that long, you should change it for sure.

What I'm talking about in regard to this thread is stuff that is less than 5 years old. Oil has no real idea how old it is. If you do an OCI, it's so much more dependent upon your use and severity, than the calendar.

I have a 1966 Mustang I drive around a bit in the summers. I run Rotella 10w30 HDEO in it, and OCI every 3 years. I only put about 100 - 300 miles on it a year; that's a very small amount of mileage. But when I do drive it, it gets good and warmed up for up to an hour at a time, so condensation is of little concern. The HDEO has a robust add-pack. Why change oil every 6 months, or even every year? The oil in my application simply cannot be "worn out" in that short useage. The oil has no idea how many days have passed since it left the bottle and entered the crankcase.

There was a UOA on here some time back where a guy ran synthetic for 4 years and 10k miles in a Toyota truck. The UOA came back fine.

Oil experiences a few things that make it worthy of changing.
1) contamination past a point of the host oil's ability to control (combustion byproducts, coolant/water, dirt are the main issues)
2) degredation of the additive package to a point where it cannot adequately protect the engine (detergetns, dispersents, TBN)
3) thermal breakdown (insolubles and sludging)
Until these things overwhelm your oil, it's not time to change yet.

There are three ways to determine your OCI. OCIs are most accurately predeicted by UOAs. In lieu of UOAs, then mileage is a reasonable alternative. Time exposure is the last option. Of the three, time is of the least consideration. Like I said, I would not go more than 5 years, but worrying about +/- 1 year is not worth the effort.

It's a matter of balancing your plan with your needs. My wife drives a large multitude of short 5 mile trips; she averages around 5k miles every 6 months, so that's my OCI plan. My new 2010 Fusion calls for OCIs every 7.5k miles or 6 months. I'm going with the 7.5k miles, even if it goes a bit over the 6 months. Am I to believe that I can do 7.5k miles in 5 or 6 months, but not 7 or 8 months? Did the oil suddenly turn sour and curdle after the 180th day? That's simply ridiculous! What if I only drove 5k miles in an entire year, but those miles were good heat-soaked miles that only happened once a week? Am I to believe that the additive package is going to just disappear in the 7th month? UOA evidence shows this simply is not the case. I feel perfectly comfortable running up to 3 years on an OCI, depending upon use and severity, with no concern whatsoever. I would not do it blindly, but I am willing to do it on a discretionary basis.

OCIs are an emotional choice for some, and a data-driven decision for others. We can't tell you how to pick; only you can do that. If you're bored and want to change oil, then go for it. But I don't believe oil has any real idea of how old it is. It does know how "degraded" it is, and the only way to discover that is with a UOA, not the calendar.

What I WILL grant you is that there are times when an OCI (especially with dino oil) is simply way cheaper than a UOA. In some regard, it's simply a more prudent decision to OCI because a UOA costs more. In this case, the assurance of the OCI outweighs knowledge of the UOA. For example, I don't ever UOA my Mustang oil; I simply change it. But I certainly do not OCI it every 100 miles, which is what would be about every 6 months! It gets the OCI every 3 years. I could probably go even further, but that's my personal limit.

The decay rate of the oil's ability to perform all its tasks is not so much a function of chronological age as much as it is one of exposure (mileage). And even that mileage has to be viewed with great scrutiny. I tailor my OCI and lubricant choices based upon a combination of:
operating conditions
environmental conditions
severity conditions
lubricant price point
ease of lubricant acquisition
desired preventative maintenace plan
etc.

"Agree, and also can't comprehend: Those fools buy a $40+K car, then ruin it by refusing to change $15 worth of oil."

Perhaps the reason some "fools" can afford a $40k vehicle is because they are not wasteful in their decisions?
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It is whatever lets you sleep at night. As one who extends the OCI I must say that changing your oil more often than needed does not extend engine life no one can really prove that and the other issue is what is the life of an engine and how well built is it etc.

So you can change at 3000 or at 10000 with a synthetic and your engine will outlive the rest of the vehicle as well as create enough boredom in driving it 10 years that you will trade it while it is still running well. IMO that is the reality of OCI s today
 
Originally Posted By: jmsjags
what i mean by that is do fuel, water, combustion gases, etc. contaminate the oil over long OCIs? wouldn't this risk of damaging your engine outweigh the slight cost benefit of extending oil life as long as you possibly can? just seems to me that the best way to prolong engine life would be to get fresh oil in there as often as possible


It can happen, but don't let the fools and fruitcakes who think they know about lubricants scare you into how fast it happens. Logically extending your OCI does NOT damage your engine and changing your oil every other Saturday will NOT extend engine life.

Change the oil when necessary, not by gut feel or somebody on the web says you should.

My turbo Volvo had ~280K miles when I sold it. Engine was tight. 10K OCI's. Current cars never see under 10K OCI's. Engines are spotless.
 
Yep, it's all good. I'm a 10k man for 8 years no.
the body and some front end parts falling apart but
the engine still runs like new.
 
"So you can change at 3000 or at 10000 with a synthetic and your engine will outlive the rest of the vehicle as well as create enough boredom in driving it 10 years that you will trade it while it is still running well. IMO that is the reality of OCI s today"

Well put.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
"So you can change at 3000 or at 10000 with a synthetic and your engine will outlive the rest of the vehicle as well as create enough boredom in driving it 10 years that you will trade it while it is still running well. IMO that is the reality of OCI s today"

Well put.

Not everybody is financially able to have a new vehicle every couple of years. I know I couldnt afford a new one that often and besides, I only buy used. If I have to keep a vehicle for 10 years, then so be it. I dont get "bored" with a vehicle.
 
"Not everybody is financially able to have a new vehicle every couple of years. I know I couldnt afford a new one that often and besides, I only buy used. If I have to keep a vehicle for 10 years, then so be it. I dont get "bored" with a vehicle."

Neither do I. But, with the salt on the roads around here 200 ~ 250,000 miles is about it. Most engines with 10,000 mile OCI's will make that without issue. Most chassis will not.
 
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Originally Posted By: bepperb
"Not everybody is financially able to have a new vehicle every couple of years. I know I couldnt afford a new one that often and besides, I only buy used. If I have to keep a vehicle for 10 years, then so be it. I dont get "bored" with a vehicle."

Neither do I. But, with the salt on the roads around here 200 ~ 250,000 miles is about it. Most engines with 10,000 mile OCI's will make that without issue. Most chassis will not.
Ya, it is a shame what all that salt does to vehicles. I always get my vehicles undercoated when I get them and every fall before the salt goes on the roads, it certainly does help.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
"Not everybody is financially able to have a new vehicle every couple of years. I know I couldnt afford a new one that often and besides, I only buy used. If I have to keep a vehicle for 10 years, then so be it. I dont get "bored" with a vehicle."

Neither do I. But, with the salt on the roads around here 200 ~ 250,000 miles is about it. Most engines with 10,000 mile OCI's will make that without issue. Most chassis will not.

Exactly, yet someone who lives in San Diego or Orlando will pipe in that you can make your car last indefinitely with proper maintenance.
The leading indicator when to buy a new car, for me, is when you start to get wet when going through puddles.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
"So you can change at 3000 or at 10000 with a synthetic and your engine will outlive the rest of the vehicle as well as create enough boredom in driving it 10 years that you will trade it while it is still running well. IMO that is the reality of OCI s today"

Well put.



If you take care of your car it won't rust out any time soon. "Engine outlasts the body" is a terrible reason to skimp on OCI's, if that's the case. I fix the body if it needs attention. And I don't get bored with a good vehicle.
 
I think we all mean with appropriately extended OCI (not to be confused with skimping), the engine will outlast the useful life of the rest of the vehicle - no limited to the body. Also, not every one can do their own body work, and some relatively cheap parts replacement would cost a non-do-it-yourselfer too much at some point for labor intensive work.
 
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