Does fuel economy matter to you at all?
- Thread starter ZZman
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Yes, that is why I went with a 4 cylinder Camry over an SUV
It does but these days there are a lot of options inside the window of what works for me. Anything from my Rio to smaller SUVs would be fine, though I am partial to smaller, lighter cars.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Interesting but saddening that environmental protection doesn't feature AT ALL in the above statements, not even mine (though it is at the back of my mind as an underlying concern).
No Prius Posters?
Poor old planet.
There's lots of Prius haters on this forum. (I might be one of them). Saving the environment is great, but not if you can't get out of the way. What use is it to do so if you're just clogging up the roads?
You're not making sense. That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
Thanks. Never quite thought of it that way before.
Just thought I was buggered if I was going to pop MY head gasket so I could get out of the way of some Porche Cayenne pilot with the standard issue sense of entitlement.
But now I've got the Moral High Ground too.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Interesting but saddening that environmental protection doesn't feature AT ALL in the above statements, not even mine (though it is at the back of my mind as an underlying concern).
No Prius Posters?
Poor old planet.
There's lots of Prius haters on this forum. (I might be one of them). Saving the environment is great, but not if you can't get out of the way. What use is it to do so if you're just clogging up the roads?
You're not making sense. That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
Thanks. Never quite thought of it that way before.
Just thought I was buggered if I was going to pop MY head gasket so I could get out of the way of some Porche Cayenne pilot with the standard issue sense of entitlement.
But now I've got the Moral High Ground too.
But now I've got the Moral High Ground too. From a SouthPark episode, AKA smug
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
No, life is too short, buy something you will like which meets your overall needs.
If you trade a few mpg, so be it.
Never seen anyone on their death bed say, wish I bought a car with better mpg?
Also as the OEM;s struggle to raise mpg to meet these inflated and unecessary standards, cars are now complex and expensive. repair costs are also high.
If you trade a few mpg, so be it.
Never seen anyone on their death bed say, wish I bought a car with better mpg?
Also as the OEM;s struggle to raise mpg to meet these inflated and unecessary standards, cars are now complex and expensive. repair costs are also high.
Originally Posted By: billt460
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
I think it's appropriate to repost this story. Now, I have nothing against 99% of Prius owners; that said, I LOVE this story from Jalopnik:
"The Prius Lady"- Well worth the read...
There are two types of slow drivers in the left lane. The Enforcers and the ADL.
The Enforcers are those drivers who will drive The Speed Limit no matter what, making sure everyone behind also drives The Speed Limit. Because it is Safe. Because it is The Law. These people must always be feeling the effects of the thin air at the extreme altitudes of their moral high ground because of the way they always look at you when you pass them on the right, They KNOW you are a bad person.
Then there is the ADL, aka the Anti-Destination League. They are the oblivious cousins to the Enforcers. This pox on humanity’s highways simply exists keep you from getting anywhere. Whether it is by driving 10mph slower than everyone else, riding the line with their blinker on for miles, or coming to a stop for free-flowing traffic at an on-ramp, these drivers somehow always manage to find their way into the left lane where they can inflict maximum chaos upon the driving masses. It must be a directive in the ADL Handbook. I’ve never actually read the thing...
This story is about a driver too disruptive for the Enforcer ranks, but I’m betting the ADL was too scared to take her on.
When I started commuting south into San Antonio every day it didn’t take long to start recognizing other cars. The lifted white F-150 with emergency lights and volunteer fire department stickers. The silver Miata with a hard top that I pass most mornings leaving New Braunfels. And the Prius Lady.
I called her the Prius Lady (PL) in reference to Dana Carvey’s Church Lady character from Saturday Night Live. You know the stereotype. Holier-than-thou because she drives the automotive equivalent to the Saviour of the environment. Drives 66mph in the left lane of a 70mph zone where everyone is already doing 75-80mph. Hey, I live in Central Texas, speeding is a constitutional right, right? Now you may think since I am on Jalopnik that maybe I simply profile every poor soul driving a Toyota ‘Pious’, but no.
There was only one Prius with an "I LOVE FERRETS" bumper sticker.
PL would always get on I-35 southbound at the Cibolo ramp, around 7:15am. She would put on her left turn signal and then come across two more lanes to the fast lane, all at that same 65-66mph speed. The momentum of all three lanes would stutter, brake lights flashing as everyone else adjusted to her speed and then jockeyed for position to go around her on the right. Not seeing her on the way in to work was a good commute. Coming up behind her and getting stuck there while traffic whipped by on the right sucked. Had my fair share of both.
In those days I was still driving my GTI VR6 and I can’t tell you how many times I buzzed by PL on the right in 3rd gear just to see the displeased look on her face at my combined disdain for traffic law and the environment. After a while my OEM exhaust had finally rotted away so I gleefully admit to fitting an aftermarket system along with one of the much-cussed/discussed cat-delete ‘test pipes’.
The Sound was Glorious.
I questioned all the years of my previously-held sanity, that I should not spend money that didn’t need to be spent, that I should not fix that which was not broken. But now I knew. Every VR6's soul was already broken straight from the factory. Saddled with the much-reviled ‘suitcase’ sound chambers. How the angels must have wept the first time those 12V head exhaust ports were free to breathe more openly. But I digress...
Commuting with the new pipe was invigorating. And if I buzzed by my old ferret-loving fellow commuter in 3rd gear it got her all excited too! There were several mornings where I almost thought she liked it, but it was not so.
On the morning of The Greatest Commute Ever I came upon ‘ol PL in the left lane and, with a quickness in my left toe and right wrist, I grabbed 3rd gear in time to slip into the middle lane and zip around her... Just in time to see the wall of brake lights. Yeah, it was bad timing on my part as I was not focused far enough ahead. So we all come to a stop, with PL right behind me for probably the first time ever. And then we proceeded to begin the stop-and-go dance.
In case you don’t know, an early 12V VR6 with a mostly-open exhaust is actually pretty bassy at low RPMs. So every time we inched forward the back of my car was giving PL a nice break from that complete lack of aural stimulation that a Prius enforces upon its interior. Bunched up as we were I could clearly see her eyes widen and her lips mumble as I would start moving. Being a self-professed considerate type I thought maybe she would appreciate a change so as I rolled to a stop once again I blipped the throttle. If it works for Harley’s, right?
Let me tell you it did NOT work for PL. She began talking to me through her windshield for a moment before suddenly stopping and pressing her lips together in a hard line. The next time we moved I did it again, two revs this time. That got me approximately twice the amount of reaction. Now we all know that twice can be a coincidence but three times provides the proof, so next time I rolled to a stop I gave her the full tachometer sweep and PL came unglued.
I think the best word is apoplectic. Yeah, because it looked like her head was going to pop off. When my foot went down she looked like she was bouncing off some internal rev-limiter. I began revving the motor up and down, just sitting there. She must have rolled down her window because suddenly her shaking fist appeared outside the car over her driver’s mirror, proudly sporting a rigid middle finger.
By this point I’m laughing like a maniac at her completely useless, impotent rage. As I’m shaking my head something else catches my eye on the right and I look over to see the guy next to me waving like, ‘[censored], Man?’ from his full-size pickup. I point over my shoulder at erupting Prius Lady and he looks back, I see the light bulb come on in his head, and he starts laughing, too. And then he waved at me again and held up his index finger in that way that people use to indicate ‘wait just a moment’. He reached downward for something, then turned and smiled, and revved his diesel engine... Yeah.
He must have had dual exhausts because black smoke poured out of both sides at the back of his truck, right over perspicacious Prius Lady’s pristine Prius.
I admit, I laughed so hard that I peed a little.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
I think it's appropriate to repost this story. Now, I have nothing against 99% of Prius owners; that said, I LOVE this story from Jalopnik:
"The Prius Lady"- Well worth the read...
There are two types of slow drivers in the left lane. The Enforcers and the ADL.
The Enforcers are those drivers who will drive The Speed Limit no matter what, making sure everyone behind also drives The Speed Limit. Because it is Safe. Because it is The Law. These people must always be feeling the effects of the thin air at the extreme altitudes of their moral high ground because of the way they always look at you when you pass them on the right, They KNOW you are a bad person.
Then there is the ADL, aka the Anti-Destination League. They are the oblivious cousins to the Enforcers. This pox on humanity’s highways simply exists keep you from getting anywhere. Whether it is by driving 10mph slower than everyone else, riding the line with their blinker on for miles, or coming to a stop for free-flowing traffic at an on-ramp, these drivers somehow always manage to find their way into the left lane where they can inflict maximum chaos upon the driving masses. It must be a directive in the ADL Handbook. I’ve never actually read the thing...
This story is about a driver too disruptive for the Enforcer ranks, but I’m betting the ADL was too scared to take her on.
When I started commuting south into San Antonio every day it didn’t take long to start recognizing other cars. The lifted white F-150 with emergency lights and volunteer fire department stickers. The silver Miata with a hard top that I pass most mornings leaving New Braunfels. And the Prius Lady.
I called her the Prius Lady (PL) in reference to Dana Carvey’s Church Lady character from Saturday Night Live. You know the stereotype. Holier-than-thou because she drives the automotive equivalent to the Saviour of the environment. Drives 66mph in the left lane of a 70mph zone where everyone is already doing 75-80mph. Hey, I live in Central Texas, speeding is a constitutional right, right? Now you may think since I am on Jalopnik that maybe I simply profile every poor soul driving a Toyota ‘Pious’, but no.
There was only one Prius with an "I LOVE FERRETS" bumper sticker.
PL would always get on I-35 southbound at the Cibolo ramp, around 7:15am. She would put on her left turn signal and then come across two more lanes to the fast lane, all at that same 65-66mph speed. The momentum of all three lanes would stutter, brake lights flashing as everyone else adjusted to her speed and then jockeyed for position to go around her on the right. Not seeing her on the way in to work was a good commute. Coming up behind her and getting stuck there while traffic whipped by on the right sucked. Had my fair share of both.
In those days I was still driving my GTI VR6 and I can’t tell you how many times I buzzed by PL on the right in 3rd gear just to see the displeased look on her face at my combined disdain for traffic law and the environment. After a while my OEM exhaust had finally rotted away so I gleefully admit to fitting an aftermarket system along with one of the much-cussed/discussed cat-delete ‘test pipes’.
The Sound was Glorious.
I questioned all the years of my previously-held sanity, that I should not spend money that didn’t need to be spent, that I should not fix that which was not broken. But now I knew. Every VR6's soul was already broken straight from the factory. Saddled with the much-reviled ‘suitcase’ sound chambers. How the angels must have wept the first time those 12V head exhaust ports were free to breathe more openly. But I digress...
Commuting with the new pipe was invigorating. And if I buzzed by my old ferret-loving fellow commuter in 3rd gear it got her all excited too! There were several mornings where I almost thought she liked it, but it was not so.
On the morning of The Greatest Commute Ever I came upon ‘ol PL in the left lane and, with a quickness in my left toe and right wrist, I grabbed 3rd gear in time to slip into the middle lane and zip around her... Just in time to see the wall of brake lights. Yeah, it was bad timing on my part as I was not focused far enough ahead. So we all come to a stop, with PL right behind me for probably the first time ever. And then we proceeded to begin the stop-and-go dance.
In case you don’t know, an early 12V VR6 with a mostly-open exhaust is actually pretty bassy at low RPMs. So every time we inched forward the back of my car was giving PL a nice break from that complete lack of aural stimulation that a Prius enforces upon its interior. Bunched up as we were I could clearly see her eyes widen and her lips mumble as I would start moving. Being a self-professed considerate type I thought maybe she would appreciate a change so as I rolled to a stop once again I blipped the throttle. If it works for Harley’s, right?
Let me tell you it did NOT work for PL. She began talking to me through her windshield for a moment before suddenly stopping and pressing her lips together in a hard line. The next time we moved I did it again, two revs this time. That got me approximately twice the amount of reaction. Now we all know that twice can be a coincidence but three times provides the proof, so next time I rolled to a stop I gave her the full tachometer sweep and PL came unglued.
I think the best word is apoplectic. Yeah, because it looked like her head was going to pop off. When my foot went down she looked like she was bouncing off some internal rev-limiter. I began revving the motor up and down, just sitting there. She must have rolled down her window because suddenly her shaking fist appeared outside the car over her driver’s mirror, proudly sporting a rigid middle finger.
By this point I’m laughing like a maniac at her completely useless, impotent rage. As I’m shaking my head something else catches my eye on the right and I look over to see the guy next to me waving like, ‘[censored], Man?’ from his full-size pickup. I point over my shoulder at erupting Prius Lady and he looks back, I see the light bulb come on in his head, and he starts laughing, too. And then he waved at me again and held up his index finger in that way that people use to indicate ‘wait just a moment’. He reached downward for something, then turned and smiled, and revved his diesel engine... Yeah.
He must have had dual exhausts because black smoke poured out of both sides at the back of his truck, right over perspicacious Prius Lady’s pristine Prius.
I admit, I laughed so hard that I peed a little.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: eljefino
......leave oil in the ground for my kids to use cheaply and enjoy.
That in reality is a fallacy. Look at how much fuel is wasted by the airlines in this country. When I lived in Chicago, I used to drive around O'Hare on the way home for work every night. You would see dozens of commercial and private jets all lined up on the taxiways, all their engines running while waiting for their turn to take off.
The fallacy continues when money either gets hoarded or consumed, which ultimately consumes natural resources. Could be oil, water, coal, but the economy ultimately uses this stuff. I have money I saved from spending on fuel in 401(k)s etc and am not naive enough to think it doesn't go to some CEO who's on that plane you describe.
Bill Gates locked up a bunch of money for a long time (which was good for the planet), and made it with the sale of intellectual property. Yet he paid 1000s of people to drive in to develop his software products. It's like saying planting a tree is good for CO2-- it is, particularly while it's growing quickly and turning airborne carbon into wood material. But then we're eventually back to having this tree we have to get rid of.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
......leave oil in the ground for my kids to use cheaply and enjoy.
That in reality is a fallacy. Look at how much fuel is wasted by the airlines in this country. When I lived in Chicago, I used to drive around O'Hare on the way home for work every night. You would see dozens of commercial and private jets all lined up on the taxiways, all their engines running while waiting for their turn to take off.
The fallacy continues when money either gets hoarded or consumed, which ultimately consumes natural resources. Could be oil, water, coal, but the economy ultimately uses this stuff. I have money I saved from spending on fuel in 401(k)s etc and am not naive enough to think it doesn't go to some CEO who's on that plane you describe.
Bill Gates locked up a bunch of money for a long time (which was good for the planet), and made it with the sale of intellectual property. Yet he paid 1000s of people to drive in to develop his software products. It's like saying planting a tree is good for CO2-- it is, particularly while it's growing quickly and turning airborne carbon into wood material. But then we're eventually back to having this tree we have to get rid of.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I'm not convinced you save fuel for others.
Maybe in theory, in isoloation, but in the real world, causing a rolling road where traffic flow is not constant, varying amounts of congestion to consider, people not driving at optimal distances, other vehicles travelling faster and slower, different driving styles (lane hoppers, aggressive manoeuvres), I don't think it is clear.
You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I'm not convinced you save fuel for others.
Maybe in theory, in isoloation, but in the real world, causing a rolling road where traffic flow is not constant, varying amounts of congestion to consider, people not driving at optimal distances, other vehicles travelling faster and slower, different driving styles (lane hoppers, aggressive manoeuvres), I don't think it is clear.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
No, life is too short, Never seen anyone on their death bed say, wish I bought a car with better mpg.
Profound observation to be sure. You are making me want to trade my Scat Pack in on a Hellcat.
No, life is too short, Never seen anyone on their death bed say, wish I bought a car with better mpg.
Profound observation to be sure. You are making me want to trade my Scat Pack in on a Hellcat.
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: VNTS
No, life is too short, Never seen anyone on their death bed say, wish I bought a car with better mpg.
Profound observation to be sure. You are making me want to trade my Scat Pack in on a Hellcat.
Same here; I have one "momentum car", from now on a new DD has to have better acceleration than its predecessor.
Originally Posted By: VNTS
No, life is too short, Never seen anyone on their death bed say, wish I bought a car with better mpg.
Profound observation to be sure. You are making me want to trade my Scat Pack in on a Hellcat.
Same here; I have one "momentum car", from now on a new DD has to have better acceleration than its predecessor.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
... from now on a new DD has to have better acceleration than its predecessor.
Excellent rule to follow!!!
... from now on a new DD has to have better acceleration than its predecessor.
Excellent rule to follow!!!
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
Some quite long single lane slip roads connecting freeways here. On those I have the choice of either going faster than I and my fragile 3-cylinder (I don't drive a Prius) are comfortable with (80-90 max, legal min usually 60) or slowing traffic.
I slow traffic.
**** them.
But now I have The Moral High Ground from which to do so. Thanks all.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
Some quite long single lane slip roads connecting freeways here. On those I have the choice of either going faster than I and my fragile 3-cylinder (I don't drive a Prius) are comfortable with (80-90 max, legal min usually 60) or slowing traffic.
I slow traffic.
**** them.
But now I have The Moral High Ground from which to do so. Thanks all.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them....
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
Well, I wouldn't do that. I get too much trouble from trucks aggressively tailgating me in the slow lane to want to go looking for trouble by indulging in fast lane vigilantism, plus I don't want to do the speed limit anyway.
But now you mention it, don't US citizens have the right to uphold the law? No citizens arrest provision?
All the "defensive ammo" jive on here at least suggests a right to self-defense, and a case (moral if not legal) could be made here for self defence via protection of the shared environment.
Originally Posted By: Ducked
That's a clear collateral benefit. You save your own fuel, and you slow everyone else down, saving their fuel as well.
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them....
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
Well, I wouldn't do that. I get too much trouble from trucks aggressively tailgating me in the slow lane to want to go looking for trouble by indulging in fast lane vigilantism, plus I don't want to do the speed limit anyway.
But now you mention it, don't US citizens have the right to uphold the law? No citizens arrest provision?
All the "defensive ammo" jive on here at least suggests a right to self-defense, and a case (moral if not legal) could be made here for self defence via protection of the shared environment.
If that's the case then "everybody" is smug.
Ignoring the big COMPLETE picture and claiming optimization of your point of view or involvement is smug.
Yes, selective blindness is a form of smug.
Ignoring the big COMPLETE picture and claiming optimization of your point of view or involvement is smug.
Yes, selective blindness is a form of smug.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: billt460
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
I think it's appropriate to repost this story. Now, I have nothing against 99% of Prius owners; that said, I LOVE this story from Jalopnik:
"The Prius Lady"- Well worth the read...
There are two types of slow drivers in the left lane. The Enforcers and the ADL.
The Enforcers are those drivers who will drive The Speed Limit no matter what, making sure everyone behind also drives The Speed Limit. Because it is Safe. Because it is The Law. These people must always be feeling the effects of the thin air at the extreme altitudes of their moral high ground because of the way they always look at you when you pass them on the right, They KNOW you are a bad person.
Then there is the ADL, aka the Anti-Destination League. They are the oblivious cousins to the Enforcers. This pox on humanity’s highways simply exists keep you from getting anywhere. Whether it is by driving 10mph slower than everyone else, riding the line with their blinker on for miles, or coming to a stop for free-flowing traffic at an on-ramp, these drivers somehow always manage to find their way into the left lane where they can inflict maximum chaos upon the driving masses. It must be a directive in the ADL Handbook. I’ve never actually read the thing...
This story is about a driver too disruptive for the Enforcer ranks, but I’m betting the ADL was too scared to take her on.
When I started commuting south into San Antonio every day it didn’t take long to start recognizing other cars. The lifted white F-150 with emergency lights and volunteer fire department stickers. The silver Miata with a hard top that I pass most mornings leaving New Braunfels. And the Prius Lady.
I called her the Prius Lady (PL) in reference to Dana Carvey’s Church Lady character from Saturday Night Live. You know the stereotype. Holier-than-thou because she drives the automotive equivalent to the Saviour of the environment. Drives 66mph in the left lane of a 70mph zone where everyone is already doing 75-80mph. Hey, I live in Central Texas, speeding is a constitutional right, right? Now you may think since I am on Jalopnik that maybe I simply profile every poor soul driving a Toyota ‘Pious’, but no.
There was only one Prius with an "I LOVE FERRETS" bumper sticker.
PL would always get on I-35 southbound at the Cibolo ramp, around 7:15am. She would put on her left turn signal and then come across two more lanes to the fast lane, all at that same 65-66mph speed. The momentum of all three lanes would stutter, brake lights flashing as everyone else adjusted to her speed and then jockeyed for position to go around her on the right. Not seeing her on the way in to work was a good commute. Coming up behind her and getting stuck there while traffic whipped by on the right sucked. Had my fair share of both.
In those days I was still driving my GTI VR6 and I can’t tell you how many times I buzzed by PL on the right in 3rd gear just to see the displeased look on her face at my combined disdain for traffic law and the environment. After a while my OEM exhaust had finally rotted away so I gleefully admit to fitting an aftermarket system along with one of the much-cussed/discussed cat-delete ‘test pipes’.
The Sound was Glorious.
I questioned all the years of my previously-held sanity, that I should not spend money that didn’t need to be spent, that I should not fix that which was not broken. But now I knew. Every VR6's soul was already broken straight from the factory. Saddled with the much-reviled ‘suitcase’ sound chambers. How the angels must have wept the first time those 12V head exhaust ports were free to breathe more openly. But I digress...
Commuting with the new pipe was invigorating. And if I buzzed by my old ferret-loving fellow commuter in 3rd gear it got her all excited too! There were several mornings where I almost thought she liked it, but it was not so.
On the morning of The Greatest Commute Ever I came upon ‘ol PL in the left lane and, with a quickness in my left toe and right wrist, I grabbed 3rd gear in time to slip into the middle lane and zip around her... Just in time to see the wall of brake lights. Yeah, it was bad timing on my part as I was not focused far enough ahead. So we all come to a stop, with PL right behind me for probably the first time ever. And then we proceeded to begin the stop-and-go dance.
In case you don’t know, an early 12V VR6 with a mostly-open exhaust is actually pretty bassy at low RPMs. So every time we inched forward the back of my car was giving PL a nice break from that complete lack of aural stimulation that a Prius enforces upon its interior. Bunched up as we were I could clearly see her eyes widen and her lips mumble as I would start moving. Being a self-professed considerate type I thought maybe she would appreciate a change so as I rolled to a stop once again I blipped the throttle. If it works for Harley’s, right?
Let me tell you it did NOT work for PL. She began talking to me through her windshield for a moment before suddenly stopping and pressing her lips together in a hard line. The next time we moved I did it again, two revs this time. That got me approximately twice the amount of reaction. Now we all know that twice can be a coincidence but three times provides the proof, so next time I rolled to a stop I gave her the full tachometer sweep and PL came unglued.
I think the best word is apoplectic. Yeah, because it looked like her head was going to pop off. When my foot went down she looked like she was bouncing off some internal rev-limiter. I began revving the motor up and down, just sitting there. She must have rolled down her window because suddenly her shaking fist appeared outside the car over her driver’s mirror, proudly sporting a rigid middle finger.
By this point I’m laughing like a maniac at her completely useless, impotent rage. As I’m shaking my head something else catches my eye on the right and I look over to see the guy next to me waving like, ‘[censored], Man?’ from his full-size pickup. I point over my shoulder at erupting Prius Lady and he looks back, I see the light bulb come on in his head, and he starts laughing, too. And then he waved at me again and held up his index finger in that way that people use to indicate ‘wait just a moment’. He reached downward for something, then turned and smiled, and revved his diesel engine... Yeah.
He must have had dual exhausts because black smoke poured out of both sides at the back of his truck, right over perspicacious Prius Lady’s pristine Prius.
I admit, I laughed so hard that I peed a little.
Similar story but from the other side of the fence. Flash snowstorm, thaw-freeze, retreat from Stalingrad scene on the motorway into Glasgow.
I'm a bit counter-culture in stop-go traffic. I resent going into gear and wearing my clutch to move a couple of metres, so I don't do it if I can help it.
I let a BIG gap open up in front of me before I move, and then I move very slowly, so there's a chance the stopped vehicles have started moving before I get to them.
This, in my view, is entirely rational, so of course people don't expect it and it really [censored] them off.
I'd been doing this for a few miles and the woman behind me was at breaking point. Got to a slip road and, tired of the Stalingrad thing, I decided to peel off and try cross coutry. I think I was subconsciously afraid of being strafed.
This meant my BIG GAP was suddenly available, and the womans frustration was translated into a sudden and entirely pointless burst of acceleration.
Conditions were slippery.
She ran slap into the back of a Landrover at maybe 10- 15mph.
Of course that was very, very unfortunate.
Originally Posted By: billt460
I think you have just inadvertently described why there are so many Prius haters out there. There is nothing wrong with driving a fuel efficient vehicle at the speed limit, in order to save a bit of fuel. But it can be a danger if they are trying to force others to drive at the same pace, by blocking them in behind them.
We have this happen all the time in Arizona. Which is one of the few states that don't put up signs on limited access highways telling drivers to, "Keep To Right Except To Pass", or, "Slower Traffic Keep To Right". As a result you often wind up with three or more cars running under the limit, 3 or 4 abreast, all running blocker for everyone else. This causes a lot of accidents, by promoting a lot of unnecessary lane changing to get around them. You have the right to save fuel if you so desire. You DO NOT have the right to force others to do the same by blocking them in behind you. Creating what is basically an obstacle for everyone else to drive around.
I think it's appropriate to repost this story. Now, I have nothing against 99% of Prius owners; that said, I LOVE this story from Jalopnik:
"The Prius Lady"- Well worth the read...
There are two types of slow drivers in the left lane. The Enforcers and the ADL.
The Enforcers are those drivers who will drive The Speed Limit no matter what, making sure everyone behind also drives The Speed Limit. Because it is Safe. Because it is The Law. These people must always be feeling the effects of the thin air at the extreme altitudes of their moral high ground because of the way they always look at you when you pass them on the right, They KNOW you are a bad person.
Then there is the ADL, aka the Anti-Destination League. They are the oblivious cousins to the Enforcers. This pox on humanity’s highways simply exists keep you from getting anywhere. Whether it is by driving 10mph slower than everyone else, riding the line with their blinker on for miles, or coming to a stop for free-flowing traffic at an on-ramp, these drivers somehow always manage to find their way into the left lane where they can inflict maximum chaos upon the driving masses. It must be a directive in the ADL Handbook. I’ve never actually read the thing...
This story is about a driver too disruptive for the Enforcer ranks, but I’m betting the ADL was too scared to take her on.
When I started commuting south into San Antonio every day it didn’t take long to start recognizing other cars. The lifted white F-150 with emergency lights and volunteer fire department stickers. The silver Miata with a hard top that I pass most mornings leaving New Braunfels. And the Prius Lady.
I called her the Prius Lady (PL) in reference to Dana Carvey’s Church Lady character from Saturday Night Live. You know the stereotype. Holier-than-thou because she drives the automotive equivalent to the Saviour of the environment. Drives 66mph in the left lane of a 70mph zone where everyone is already doing 75-80mph. Hey, I live in Central Texas, speeding is a constitutional right, right? Now you may think since I am on Jalopnik that maybe I simply profile every poor soul driving a Toyota ‘Pious’, but no.
There was only one Prius with an "I LOVE FERRETS" bumper sticker.
PL would always get on I-35 southbound at the Cibolo ramp, around 7:15am. She would put on her left turn signal and then come across two more lanes to the fast lane, all at that same 65-66mph speed. The momentum of all three lanes would stutter, brake lights flashing as everyone else adjusted to her speed and then jockeyed for position to go around her on the right. Not seeing her on the way in to work was a good commute. Coming up behind her and getting stuck there while traffic whipped by on the right sucked. Had my fair share of both.
In those days I was still driving my GTI VR6 and I can’t tell you how many times I buzzed by PL on the right in 3rd gear just to see the displeased look on her face at my combined disdain for traffic law and the environment. After a while my OEM exhaust had finally rotted away so I gleefully admit to fitting an aftermarket system along with one of the much-cussed/discussed cat-delete ‘test pipes’.
The Sound was Glorious.
I questioned all the years of my previously-held sanity, that I should not spend money that didn’t need to be spent, that I should not fix that which was not broken. But now I knew. Every VR6's soul was already broken straight from the factory. Saddled with the much-reviled ‘suitcase’ sound chambers. How the angels must have wept the first time those 12V head exhaust ports were free to breathe more openly. But I digress...
Commuting with the new pipe was invigorating. And if I buzzed by my old ferret-loving fellow commuter in 3rd gear it got her all excited too! There were several mornings where I almost thought she liked it, but it was not so.
On the morning of The Greatest Commute Ever I came upon ‘ol PL in the left lane and, with a quickness in my left toe and right wrist, I grabbed 3rd gear in time to slip into the middle lane and zip around her... Just in time to see the wall of brake lights. Yeah, it was bad timing on my part as I was not focused far enough ahead. So we all come to a stop, with PL right behind me for probably the first time ever. And then we proceeded to begin the stop-and-go dance.
In case you don’t know, an early 12V VR6 with a mostly-open exhaust is actually pretty bassy at low RPMs. So every time we inched forward the back of my car was giving PL a nice break from that complete lack of aural stimulation that a Prius enforces upon its interior. Bunched up as we were I could clearly see her eyes widen and her lips mumble as I would start moving. Being a self-professed considerate type I thought maybe she would appreciate a change so as I rolled to a stop once again I blipped the throttle. If it works for Harley’s, right?
Let me tell you it did NOT work for PL. She began talking to me through her windshield for a moment before suddenly stopping and pressing her lips together in a hard line. The next time we moved I did it again, two revs this time. That got me approximately twice the amount of reaction. Now we all know that twice can be a coincidence but three times provides the proof, so next time I rolled to a stop I gave her the full tachometer sweep and PL came unglued.
I think the best word is apoplectic. Yeah, because it looked like her head was going to pop off. When my foot went down she looked like she was bouncing off some internal rev-limiter. I began revving the motor up and down, just sitting there. She must have rolled down her window because suddenly her shaking fist appeared outside the car over her driver’s mirror, proudly sporting a rigid middle finger.
By this point I’m laughing like a maniac at her completely useless, impotent rage. As I’m shaking my head something else catches my eye on the right and I look over to see the guy next to me waving like, ‘[censored], Man?’ from his full-size pickup. I point over my shoulder at erupting Prius Lady and he looks back, I see the light bulb come on in his head, and he starts laughing, too. And then he waved at me again and held up his index finger in that way that people use to indicate ‘wait just a moment’. He reached downward for something, then turned and smiled, and revved his diesel engine... Yeah.
He must have had dual exhausts because black smoke poured out of both sides at the back of his truck, right over perspicacious Prius Lady’s pristine Prius.
I admit, I laughed so hard that I peed a little.
Similar story but from the other side of the fence. Flash snowstorm, thaw-freeze, retreat from Stalingrad scene on the motorway into Glasgow.
I'm a bit counter-culture in stop-go traffic. I resent going into gear and wearing my clutch to move a couple of metres, so I don't do it if I can help it.
I let a BIG gap open up in front of me before I move, and then I move very slowly, so there's a chance the stopped vehicles have started moving before I get to them.
This, in my view, is entirely rational, so of course people don't expect it and it really [censored] them off.
I'd been doing this for a few miles and the woman behind me was at breaking point. Got to a slip road and, tired of the Stalingrad thing, I decided to peel off and try cross coutry. I think I was subconsciously afraid of being strafed.
This meant my BIG GAP was suddenly available, and the womans frustration was translated into a sudden and entirely pointless burst of acceleration.
Conditions were slippery.
She ran slap into the back of a Landrover at maybe 10- 15mph.
Of course that was very, very unfortunate.
My Lada 2104 was the worst thing in a traffic jam, it needed a good gap to launch itself. I hate riding my bike in stop go traffic (when I can't lane split) idle speed is too fast for the traffic crawl, so I'm contantly pulling in the clutch and coasting...slowing down, moving off again, pull in the clutch. 40 years ago I was commuting on a Norton, the clutch wasn't fully home until 30mph, - I was across the intersection before the clutch was engaged and already over the speed limit. Lucky traffic was much less than these days, and drivers more polite, they would pull over for a bike lane splitting, not like today where they block you.
Somewhat, I've been considering going green since they increased fuel tax in California. I've been Looking at the KIA Niro, 46 Hwy 50 City. I typically drive 70ish on the open road and don't mind driving in the right lanes.
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