Does fuel economy matter to you at all?

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: billt460


I'm not "angry" at anyone who owns a Prius, or any other Hybrid for that matter. All I'm trying to get across to numb nuts is, 1.) They're only worthwhile for a select group of people who meet the driving requirements that allow them to eventually pay off. And, 2.) If those specific conditions do not exist in your driving requirements, you're not going to save a penny. And, 3.) They require at least a 7 to 10 year period at roughly 15,000 miles a year, before you're going to save anything. This, after you subtract the additional cost of the Hybrid vehicle over a similar gas only vehicle. And then try to offset that cost with the small amount of fuel they save.


I drive one, well my parent's old one and for my phase of life(single, living in the city), a Prius is a an absolutely fine car for that job as boring as it is and I feel like a [censored] Uber driver when I drive it(it's actually cheaper for me to drive my Prius than to take an Lyft/Uber, but parking is a bear in the city).

I certainly agree with the driving requirements to make it economically viable - my parent's logic for getting the Prius was they had a long commute(and paradoxically, it did better with them on the highway than with me in the city) and they didn't want to get something small like a Corolla or Civic. Nowadays with Toyota hitting economies of scale on hybrid batteries and components, the price premium wasn't as bad was it was 10 years ago.

If you live in the city, have a long commute or drive for Lyft/Uber/Amazon, a Prius is a fine choice. If not, there's better choices for less $$$.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If they do nothing else they fill a need for someone else leaving more gas for you to enjoy. Similarly if you see a guy on a bicycle, be happy he's not using "your" gas.


I never felt that I, "had a need" to look at Prius drivers, or bicycle riders as individuals who are going out of their way not to, "burn my gas". I thought they were simply trying to save a buck somehow. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but do Prius drivers really think this way?


If you (and not you, you, but you, the reader) find yourself annoyed by the presence of such things, why not look for a bright side? It beats driving around angry.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If they do nothing else they fill a need for someone else leaving more gas for you to enjoy. Similarly if you see a guy on a bicycle, be happy he's not using "your" gas.


I never felt that I, "had a need" to look at Prius drivers, or bicycle riders as individuals who are going out of their way not to, "burn my gas". I thought they were simply trying to save a buck somehow. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but do Prius drivers really think this way?


If you (and not you, you, but you, the reader) find yourself annoyed by the presence of such things, why not look for a bright side? It beats driving around angry.

My laughter is when a Prius blows by everybody, while the sport car in the 4th/fast lane is slowing everybody....
Bonus points if it is the Prius v Wagon....

 

[javacontour]

My laughter was during the 2012 election when I observed a Prius with a bumper sticker for a candidate incongruent with the stereotypes parked next to a big Bro-Wagon diesel truck with the polar opposite incongruent candidate sticker.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: pandus13


My laughter is when a Prius blows by everybody, while the sport car in the 4th/fast lane is slowing everybody....
Bonus points if it is the Prius v Wagon....

Well, I'll tell you this it sure beats getting stuck behind a BMW X6M on US-50 between Twin Bridges and Echo Summit to South Lake Tahoe in a snow storm and watching the BMW almost lose it.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: pandus13


My laughter is when a Prius blows by everybody, while the sport car in the 4th/fast lane is slowing everybody....
Bonus points if it is the Prius v Wagon....

Well, I'll tell you this it sure beats getting stuck behind a BMW X6M on US-50 between Twin Bridges and Echo Summit to South Lake Tahoe in a snow storm and watching the BMW almost lose it.

Hheheh, memories....
My previous economy cars, with brand new all-seasons....
Saw couple minivans not moving at all in fresh snow....

P.S. A chick at work, had a Nissan 350Z, with winter tires... Unfortunately, they closed the whole highway (Chicago's Lake Shore Drive) because of snow.... 2 days to get home, another 2 days to recover the car from city towing........

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
My laughter was during the 2012 election when I observed a Prius with a bumper sticker for a candidate incongruent with the stereotypes parked next to a big Bro-Wagon diesel truck with the polar opposite incongruent candidate sticker.

We must frequent the same streets...
Did the prius had a gun rack also and Alaska numbers?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460

So now what dimwitted point are you trying to push?


Are you saving for your driveline catastrophic failure at the end of your warranty period ?

That's one of your points.

Have you checked how simple a Prius driveline is compared to your Camry ?

That's one of your points.

Have you checked the ROI on any of the other vehicles in the list that you provided ?

That's one of your points.

There's a saying in Oz "thick as two short planks"...I think it now has your portrait alongside it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
You're welcome.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/why-hybrids-and-diesels-dont-always-save-you-money.html


Quote:
The negative number on the Toyota Prius V means that it is less expensive than its closest non-hybrid match, the Toyota Venza, so there are instant savings to be had. We had previously compared the Prius V to the Toyota Matrix, but that model has since been discontinued:

2014 Toyota Prius Two vs. 2015 Toyota Corolla Eco Plus: 10.3 years (6.9)
2014 Toyota Prius C One vs. 2015 Toyota Yaris LE: 4.1 years (2.7)
2014 Toyota Prius V Two vs. 2015 Toyota Venza LE: -2.1 years (-1.4)
2015 Ford C-Max Hybrid SE vs. 2014 Ford Focus SE: 5.1 years (3.4)
2015 Chevrolet Volt vs. 2014 Chevrolet Cruze LTZ: 3.0 years (1.7)


Keep any of them (bar the vcherry picked Prius for any more than 3.4 years, and you are making money...especially if it's your "last" car

Quote:
The Volkswagen Jetta and Passat, for example, have very long break-even times, since the gasoline-equivalent vehicle already gets great fuel economy:

2015 Volkswagen Jetta TDI SE vs. 2015 Volkswagen Jetta SE: 19.0 years (5.9)
2015 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE vs. 2015 Volkswagen Passat SE: 19.5 years (5.7)
2014 BMW 328d vs. 2014 BMW 328i: 2.5 years (1.8)
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited w/EcoDiesel vs. 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7L V8: 1.8 years (0.9)
2015 BMW X5 xDrive 35d vs. 2015 BMW X5 sDrive35i : 3.2 years (2.3)


Yes, the VWs are dogs...keep any of the diesels longer than 3.2 years (that aren't VWs), and you are in the money, especially if it's your "last car"

See, it's your link...leave out the one or two dogs (caveat emptor, be a knowledgable buyer), and a "keeper is cheaper"

But it's your link, you obviously read it all before posting, so why keep swinging of the Prius ??

 

[oliveoil]

Yes. As a general rule, if we all just took and used what we need the world would better off.....for all of us.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
....In either case, the Toyota hybrids are amazingly simple compared to either the multiple speed manual or automatic transmission regular vehicle. What are you basing your over-complex statements on ?


https://phys.org/news/2006-01-hybrid-cars-pros-cons.html

"A hybrid car is complex and expensive. It has two motors and all the ancillary systems to manage them plus a heavy battery and a regeneration system used to produce electricity during breaking. All of these systems must work together, adding complexity. While cars and, just as importantly, the computers that control them, have become more reliable, they still suffer from failures. So owners of hybrids can expect more time in the shop and larger repair bills.

Hybrids are the most gasoline efficient of all cars, but only about 20% to 35% better than a fuel efficient gasoline powered vehicle like the Honda Civic, for example, that gets 36 mpg. But, when comparing prices...the justification to buy becomes less clear.

Indeed, the difference in average annual fuel bills - $405 for a Honda Insight versus $635 for a Honda Civic - means you may never recoup the added initial cost of a hybrid. Over a ten year period owning a hybrid will save you only $2,300 - less than the cost difference for comparably equipped cars.

Don't you EVER get tired of being WRONG?

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Have you checked how simple a Prius driveline is compared to your Camry?

 

[Shannow]

No clutch packs, gear changes, hydraulics, solenoids, actuators. Only a single planetary gearsest, versus a handful in your Camry.


Only a few more moving parts than a hammer.

 

[billt460]

 

[Shannow]

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If they do nothing else they fill a need for someone else leaving more gas for you to enjoy. Similarly if you see a guy on a bicycle, be happy he's not using "your" gas.


I never felt that I, "had a need" to look at Prius drivers, or bicycle riders as individuals who are going out of their way not to, "burn my gas". I thought they were simply trying to save a buck somehow. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but do Prius drivers really think this way?


Could be. Think I've seen them referred to recently as "tree huggers". However dismissive that descriptions intent, it does imply a certain level of unselfish empathy.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
....In either case, the Toyota hybrids are amazingly simple compared to either the multiple speed manual or automatic transmission regular vehicle. What are you basing your over-complex statements on ?


https://phys.org/news/2006-01-hybrid-cars-pros-cons.html

"A hybrid car is complex and expensive. It has two motors and all the ancillary systems to manage them plus a heavy battery and a regeneration system used to produce electricity during breaking. All of these systems must work together, adding complexity. While cars and, just as importantly, the computers that control them, have become more reliable, they still suffer from failures. So owners of hybrids can expect more time in the shop and larger repair bills.

Hybrids are the most gasoline efficient of all cars, but only about 20% to 35% better than a fuel efficient gasoline powered vehicle like the Honda Civic, for example, that gets 36 mpg. But, when comparing prices...the justification to buy becomes less clear.

Indeed, the difference in average annual fuel bills - $405 for a Honda Insight versus $635 for a Honda Civic - means you may never recoup the added initial cost of a hybrid. Over a ten year period owning a hybrid will save you only $2,300 - less than the cost difference for comparably equipped cars.

Don't you EVER get tired of being WRONG?

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Have you checked how simple a Prius driveline is compared to your Camry?

Your source can't spell "braking".

That would make them look a bit stupid anywhere else, but you can relax, you're on bitog.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: oliveoil
Yes. As a general rule, if we all just took and used what we need the world would better off.....for all of us.


And what would be the fun in that?

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If they do nothing else they fill a need for someone else leaving more gas for you to enjoy. Similarly if you see a guy on a bicycle, be happy he's not using "your" gas.


I never felt that I, "had a need" to look at Prius drivers, or bicycle riders as individuals who are going out of their way not to, "burn my gas". I thought they were simply trying to save a buck somehow. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but do Prius drivers really think this way?


Could be. Think I've seen them referred to recently as "tree huggers". However dismissive that descriptions intent, it does imply a certain level of unselfish empathy.


Originally Posted By: billt460

Let me get this straight. Now you want to compare tree huggers running blocker on the freeway to save gas, with concealed carry to defend your life?


There you go. You sort of answered your own question for yourself, before you asked it.

Are you quite sure you understand how this "straw man" tactic is supposed to work?

 

[chunt]

Fuel economy is important to me but it is not the number one thing for me. I traded a Nissan Altima 3.5 for a Nissan Rouge 2.5. Before doing this I researched Fuelly.com and found that the Rouge would get almost the same mpg's as the Altima did. I am actually getting about 1 mpg less on the Rouge and I am fine with that. Comfort, safety and technology are higher on my list.
Now after a few years on the Tacomaworld forum, I have found that a lot of Tacoma owners go through this in this order:
1. Buy a Tacoma
2. Get a 2 -3 inch lift
3. Get bigger tires
4. Finally complain about mpg's

 

[ZZman]

I guess we are spoiled with low fuel prices. If they were similar to other countries many of us would probably be more concerned about it. Also hybrids and their payback time would be greatly shortened.