Does FCA have the 6.4L hemi cam / lifter issue fixed yet?

[Fordiesel69]

Its such a shame the rest of this engine looked really good. Easily another 50 ~ 100k out of it.

But.......I wonder why the main bearings were so bad if the oil was filtered first? That concerns me.

This is an older one, but out of curiousity was wondering what year they fixed this. I heard the 3.6L V6 Pentastar should be 2017 or newer to avoid the roller rockers from flattening out, but what about the big beast 6.4L?

 

[Danno]

The problem is there is no information on miles or engine idle time, or service history.
Idle time can negatively impact lifter life.
It was stated, these engines are common in commercial duty.
It may have been out of a hydro line truck with huge idle times.

 

[JavierH19]

Given the pentastars still have issues over a decade after introduction probably not.

 

[JavierH19]

The problem is there is no information on miles or engine idle time, or service history.
Idle time can negatively impact lifter life.
It was stated, these engines are common in commercial duty.
It may have been out of a hydro line truck with huge idle times.

Not the owners fault for simply using an engine as an engine. The thing needs to be designed to, you know, actually work like any other engine at idle and be able to lubricate itself. I can't imagine an engine having lubrication issues at idle nowadays. Just embarrassing that junk like this is made in the 21st century.

 

[jeepman3071]

Not the owners fault for simply using an engine as an engine. The thing needs to be designed to, you know, actually work like any other engine at idle and be able to lubricate itself. I can't imagine an engine having lubrication issues at idle nowadays. Just embarrassing that junk like this is made in the 21st century.

I'm not convinced it is a lubrication issue at all, but rather an inadequate materials failure. My father is on his second 5.7L Grand Cherokee, the first one (2013) went 200k before it ate a lifter. Neglecting the engine obviously won't help the issue, but there are perfectly cared for engines driven normally that still destroy lifters and cams, some in as little as 50,000 miles. I've researched the issue extensively and have seen all sorts of oils and intervals used across many forums. 5w20, 5w30, 5w40 euro oils, 10w30, synthetic, conventional, boutique oil, gas station cheap oil, you name it. Nothing made a definitive and repeatable improvement, and goes to show that over maintaining something doesn't make up for manufacturing defects. This is what happens when companies prioritize profit over everything, and it happens across the board with every manufacturer.

 

[vwmaniaman]

Get that inferior foreign metal out of there and put properly hardened metal parts in there that will last.

 

[JavierH19]

I'm not convinced it is a lubrication issue at all, but rather an inadequate materials failure. My father is on his second 5.7L Grand Cherokee, the first one (2013) went 200k before it ate a lifter. Neglecting the engine obviously won't help the issue, but there are perfectly cared for engines driven normally that still destroy lifters and cams, some in as little as 50,000 miles. I've researched the issue extensively and have seen all sorts of oils and intervals used across many forums. 5w20, 5w30, 5w40 euro oils, 10w30, synthetic, conventional, boutique oil, gas station cheap oil, you name it. Nothing made a definitive and repeatable improvement, and goes to show that over maintaining something doesn't make up for manufacturing defects. This is what happens when companies prioritize profit over everything, and it happens across the board with every manufacturer.

That too is just as unacceptable.

 

[thunderfog]

@OVERKILL has a lot of knowledge on this

 

[earlyre]

Its such a shame the rest of this engine looked really good. Easily another 50 ~ 100k out of it.

But.......I wonder why the main bearings were so bad if the oil was filtered first? That concerns me.

This is an older one, but out of curiousity was wondering what year they fixed this. I heard the 3.6L V6 Pentastar should be 2017 or newer to avoid the roller rockers from flattening out, but what about the big beast 6.4L?

could be wrong, but i thought all of the Hemi engines were out of production now anyway... so if THEY haven't fixed it yet, you'll have to find an aftermarket solution..

 

[21_6.7f450]

No, the 6.4 is still used in the 2500/3500 Ram. I think it will be there for some time unless they come out with a bigger motor like a motor "Legend" like GM and the 6.6, people associate it with the durability of the Duramax and 500k mile LBZ. The 7.3 gas Ford was picked because it rang durability of the 7.3 PSD. People say, my truck has a 7.3. It would make perfect sense. The Dodge needs a 426 V8, just saying.
The Chevy should have been a 7.4l
The Ford should have been a 7.5l
Dodge should use a 7.0l
Chevy and Ford decided to use their current or previous diesel engine displacement is blasphemy. Ford tried to say it was the best displacement for efficiency in a press release....bbaaahhhaaa. sure

 

[OVERKILL]

All three major manufacturers have had issues with lifter QC
- 5.7/6.4/6.2SC HEMI's
- GM pushrod engines (all of them)
- Ford 7.3L

In FCA/Stellantis's case, this was apparently solved with yet another lifter revision in 2018 where the roller/needle assembly was updated and they have considerably larger needles.

The problem, at least with FCA/Stellantis (and I believe Ford) is improper hardening of the lifter roller and pin (these are probably sourced from China, but can't confirm that, it's speculation on my part). The needles eventually breach the surface hardening of either the pin or the roller, this allows for the creation of a "ditch" and eventually the needles pile-up, the roller stops rolling and it eats the lobe off the cam.

I'm not sure if they (FCA/Stellantis) changed suppliers in 2018 or if this is just a design change.

Back in the 80's/90's and perhaps even into the early 2000's, at least with Ford, their roller lifters were made by Federal Mogul and were basically indestructible. Since I don't recall hearing of failures of Chrysler or GM lifters from that period, I assume they had similar success.

I don't think we forgot how to make lifters, so this is either a supplier issue, or a supplier oversight issue, IE, the high cost of cheap products.

 

[sloinker]

Same issues on the Pentastar V6 engines. Too many failures but I think most of these engines live a full life and the ratio of failure is still relatively small in the context of miles driven per vehicle versus vehicles on the road. Remember when VW went to court over the diesel snafu? They brought in testimony that pinned the life of engines from manufacturers serving the American market at 150,000 miles. Plenty of hemi's and pentastar's driving around with mileage in excess of that figure. The hundreds of pages long court decree is available online.

 

[21_6.7f450]

Is it related to the mds? I was just aware it was the 5.7. I thought the 6.4 had a higher volume oil pump and it wasn't an issue.
I've recommended the 6.4 over the 5.7 just for that reason. Some of those people have over 200k on their trucks and no oil related issues.
One couple uses their 3500 SRW to pull a 10k camper. They claim it does good, I have no reason to think otherwise. I think theirs is a 14/15. It's well over 200k miles.

 

[OVERKILL]

Is it related to the mds? I was just aware it was the 5.7. I thought the 6.4 had a higher volume oil pump and it wasn't an issue.
I've recommended the 6.4 over the 5.7 just for that reason. Some of those people have over 200k on their trucks and no oil related issues.
One couple uses their 3500 SRW to pull a 10k camper. They claim it does good, I have no reason to think otherwise. I think theirs is a 14/15. It's well over 200k miles.

No, has nothing to do with MDS.

 

[21_6.7f450]

Just faulty parts..

 

[Number_35]

Dodge should use a 7.0l

Hearkening back to the 426 Hemi!

 

[21_6.7f450]

A "426 Hemi" would be cool in a 3/4 ton.

 

[ms21043]

I am working on a Ram 1500. It had been overheated badly and popped the head gaskets. The plan was to replace the engine with a good used one. Having a tough time finding a good low mileage used one, this truck has MDS and VVT.
For the curiosities sake, I opened up the old engine to see what there was to see. As I was pulling it apart, I was removing lifters starting from the rear moving towards the front of the engine, all of the lifters are coming out looking good....till the last one on #2 cylinder, it had a worn roller typical of the failures that these Hemi's have. It didn't look that bad, at least the roller still rolled, it was loose though.
Continued the tear down and when I pulled the cam, wow. Taking a closer look at that plastic retainer that's supposed to keep the rollers aligned with the cam, I see that the one with the bad lifter has a crack. I think the lifter turned 90 degrees to the cam and ate it, also this is one of the regular lifters, not an MDS one.
The truck has nearly 240k miles on it. Interesting that it goes so many miles then it has this failure. Not sure if it's related to the overheating. It must have been having chronic heating problems because there's a new radiator, fan clutch and water pump, apparently replaced at different times recently.
The crankshaft and bearings in this thing are in pristine condition. Cylinders all have about .0005 taper which is at about max limit. The pistons look OK and so do the cam bearings. It had 4 broken exhaust studs also, must have sounded terrible.