Does anyone run 5w30 in new Honda?

[Kuato]

What no one has mentioned in this thread, is the chain of events leading to only 0w20 being specified in owner's manuals.

CAFE has been mentioned, but several years ago on here we had many threads and lots of research on the situation. The short version goes something like this:

CAFE requires higher fleet mpg averages(with penalties for not meeting). Automakers try thinner oils for the mpg test, and find a very small mpg benefit to using them. That small benefit spread out over thousands of vehicles makes a $$ difference to them. CAFE ALSO requires that ONLY the motor oil used in mpg testing be recommended in the manual.

Read that again: ONLY the motor oil used in mpg testing may be recommended in the owner's manual.

-----

So the automakers are basically prohibited from recommending anything thicker than used in the mpg testing. If they used 0w20, or 0w16, those are the only numbers that can appear in the US manual. That's why I generally go find the specifications for my engines in either the European or Australian manuals, or on sites from those countries.

In the example of our '22 MDX, Penrite Australia show that 5w30 is the specified oil there. For our '05 CRV, Penrite show several grades are acceptable, and that up to 20w50 can be used.

0w20 does provide a miniscule advantage in mpg in testing, which most owners won't notice day-to-day. There may be additional wear from using it in some applications and usage patterns, but there's no specific data that I've seen.

I do like the way that Toyota have worded their manuals, suggesting that a heavier oil "may be required for adequate lubrication" under some circumstances...such as continuous high speed driving, towing, mountainous terrain, or extreme high temperatures.

 

[himemsys]

A couple of things to consider:
1) Honda includes 30 grade as an option in their owner's manual in Europe. Same engine.
2) do an oil analysis and see how much the viscosity drops. I'm seeing UOAs of this engine where the viscosity dropped 2-3 points. Take the low point of 20 grade oil (6.9 cSt) and add 2-3 points to that. So if you use an oil with a starting viscosity of 8.9-9.9, that should keep you in grade by the time your OCI comes up. There are some 5W30 oils that start in the high 9s and low 10s.

 

[Rygrego]

Just like the title states, does anyone run 5w30 in their new Honda?

In all my Hondas since 2009 - 2017

 

[Rygrego]

What no one has mentioned in this thread, is the chain of events leading to only 0w20 being specified in owner's manuals.

CAFE has been mentioned, but several years ago on here we had many threads and lots of research on the situation. The short version goes something like this:

CAFE requires higher fleet mpg averages(with penalties for not meeting). Automakers try thinner oils for the mpg test, and find a very small mpg benefit to using them. That small benefit spread out over thousands of vehicles makes a $$ difference to them. CAFE ALSO requires that ONLY the motor oil used in mpg testing be recommended in the manual.

Read that again: ONLY the motor oil used in mpg testing may be recommended in the owner's manual.

-----

So the automakers are basically prohibited from recommending anything thicker than used in the mpg testing. If they used 0w20, or 0w16, those are the only numbers that can appear in the US manual. That's why I generally go find the specifications for my engines in either the European or Australian manuals, or on sites from those countries.

In the example of our '22 MDX, Penrite Australia show that 5w30 is the specified oil there. For our '05 CRV, Penrite show several grades are acceptable, and that up to 20w50 can be used.

0w20 does provide a miniscule advantage in mpg in testing, which most owners won't notice day-to-day. There may be additional wear from using it in some applications and usage patterns, but there's no specific data that I've seen.

I do like the way that Toyota have worded their manuals, suggesting that a heavier oil "may be required for adequate lubrication" under some circumstances...such as continuous high speed driving, towing, mountainous terrain, or extreme high temperatures.

Exactly.

 

[Malo83]

Run 5w30 in all my vehicles.

 

[Gokhan]

Just like the title states, does anyone run 5w30 in their new Honda?

0W-20 and 5W-30 are virtually the same oil thickness—give or take. You must run a 15W-40 CK-4 HDEO if you honestly want to be on the safe side.

 

[Al]

0W-20 and 5W-30 are virtually the same oil thickness—give or take. You must run a 15W-40 CK-4 HDEO if you honestly want to be on the safe side.

Hardly

 

[ZeeOSix]

0w20 does provide a miniscule advantage in mpg in testing, which most owners won't notice day-to-day. There may be additional wear from using it in some applications and usage patterns, but there's no specific data that I've seen.

There have been studies and papers posted in these kind of threads that shows wear starts going up pretty significantly on some engine components when the HTHS viscosity goes down to around 2.6 cP. That's about where most xW-20 oils are, so it's HTHS is right on the borderline and gives real no headroom for wear protection.

 

[ZeeOSix]

0W-20 and 5W-30 are virtually the same oil thickness—give or take. You must run a 15W-40 CK-4 HDEO if you honestly want to be on the safe side.

The difference between xW-20 and xW-30 in the HTHS viscosity is enough to make a difference in wear protection.

 

[Revving2Redline]

There have been studies and papers posted in these kind of threads that shows wear starts going up pretty significantly on some engine components when the HTHS viscosity goes down to around 2.6 cP. That's about where most xW-20 oils are, so it's HTHS is right on the borderline and give real no headroom for wear protection.

You would need a 0w20 that is a real steady and sturdy synthetic like Redline HP 0w20 with a HTHS of 2.9, Noack under 10.

 

[Rygrego]

Nope, you are totally wrong. Anything other than 0W-20 is forbidden because Honda only specifies 0W-20.
2019 Civic Warranty booklet (came with the car):
"The warranties in this booklet do not cover: • The failure of any part or accessory due to: - Abuse, misuse, accidental damage, or acts of nature. - Improper installation or maintenance. - A low fluid level or the use of a fluid other than specified by Honda."

Owners Manual:
"...oil of suitable viscosity for the ambient temperature as shown."
A snippet of said owners manual is provided below and verifies "as shown" is only 0W-20.


View attachment 93670

Can you say "BAA BAA" ?

 

[Owen Lucas]

There have been studies and papers posted in these kind of threads that shows wear starts going up pretty significantly on some engine components when the HTHS viscosity goes down to around 2.6 cP. That's about where most xW-20 oils are, so it's HTHS is right on the borderline and gives real no headroom for wear protection.

So if you're running 0w20, just change it more often? Don't go 10K when the maintenance light comes on instead go 5 or 4?

 

[FZ1]

So if you're running 0w20, just change it more often? Don't go 10K when the maintenance light comes on instead go 5 or 4?

I just run the "thick" side of 0-20. M1 AFE and PUP are 8.8 vis.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So if you're running 0w20, just change it more often? Don't go 10K when the maintenance light comes on instead go 5 or 4?

I just run the "thick" side of 0-20. M1 AFE and PUP are 8.8 vis.

I just run 5W-30.

 

[Rygrego]

Nope, you are totally wrong. Anything other than 0W-20 is forbidden because Honda only specifies 0W-20.
2019 Civic Warranty booklet (came with the car):
"The warranties in this booklet do not cover: • The failure of any part or accessory due to: - Abuse, misuse, accidental damage, or acts of nature. - Improper installation or maintenance. - A low fluid level or the use of a fluid other than specified by Honda."

Owners Manual:
"...oil of suitable viscosity for the ambient temperature as shown."
A snippet of said owners manual is provided below and verifies "as shown" is only 0W-20.


View attachment 93670

Nope, you are totally wrong. Anything other than 0W-20 is forbidden because Honda only specifies 0W-20.
2019 Civic Warranty booklet (came with the car):
"The warranties in this booklet do not cover: • The failure of any part or accessory due to: - Abuse, misuse, accidental damage, or acts of nature. - Improper installation or maintenance. - A low fluid level or the use of a fluid other than specified by Honda."

Owners Manual:
"...oil of suitable viscosity for the ambient temperature as shown."
A snippet of said owners manual is provided below and verifies "as shown" is only 0W-20.


View attachment 93670

This grade is for a CAFE standard and not the health of your engine.

 

[CleanSump]

Bottom line. The owners manual only shows 0W-20. Anyone who second guesses that is not going to be able to show receipts that will satisfy the Honda warranty.
Don't care what is "best" or "better". The owners manual only shows 0W-20.
Show a new owners manual from the US that shows an XW-30. No one can because Honda doesn't say you can use anything but 0W-20.
. Make up whatever you want, self validate and pontificate, interpret with one eye closed and the other squinting, total lack of reading comprehension?
Can you say done. period? Honda will when they deny the warranty claim.

 

[FZ1]

I just run 5W-30.

I just run 5W-30.

I might "attempt" to run a 5-30 in the summer but only if it's PP. Thin 30, you know.

 

[Gokhan]

The difference between xW-20 and xW-30 in the HTHS viscosity is enough to make a difference in wear protection.

HTHS is not what determines wear protection. It is the base-oil viscosity, which is basically HTHS at higher shear rates than reported, and many 0W-20 oils are actually thicker than many 5W-30 oils in that respect and therefore offer better wear protection.

There is no need for 5W-30 if your car specs 0W-20, and chances are that you will be worse off with 5W-30 in all respects. 0W-20 oils typically use higher-quality base oils than 5W-30 oils and are better oils overall.

If you are really paranoid about wear protection, you need to go with an ACEA C3 or A3/B4 oil or perhaps an API CK-4 oil but not with an ILSAC 5W-30 oil.

 

[Rygrego]

Bottom line. The owners manual only shows 0W-20. Anyone who second guesses that is not going to be able to show receipts that will satisfy the Honda warranty.
Don't care what is "best" or "better". The owners manual only shows 0W-20.
Show a new owners manual from the US that shows an XW-30. No one can because Honda doesn't say you can use anything but 0W-20.
. Make up whatever you want, self validate and pontificate, interpret with one eye closed and the other squinting, total lack of reading comprehension?
Can you say done. period? Honda will when they deny the warranty claim.

WRONG, I have worked at more than 1 or 2 dealers in my career and the only time oil was called into effect was for lack of quantity not grade. 0w20s or 5w20s are for CAFE standards period.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Where in the Honda owner's manual does it say that 0W-20 is "required", and that warranty will be denied if 0W-20 is not used? Just because only one viscosity is shown (because of CAFE) doesn't mean it's the only one that is required

I'd like to see how any engine manufacturer could prove that xW-30 or xW-40 (which gives better wear protection) caused any damage or engine failure. Engine failures due to lubrication issues aren't typically from the viscosity, except in rare cases like if someone used xW-20 for track use and MOFT went to zero, but rather from the lack of lubrication, which could be caused by a variety of other failures in the oiling system.