Remember an oil may work well in one type of engine but in another oil turn to tar, Amsoil will show results on how good their oil is , but ia another engine may not do so well I don't think the results would be printed in their advertising. The test is very narrow in as much as the vehicles and their operation. With cold starts short engine run time etc. the results may be different,looking at the uoa's we notice different results on the oils the constant would be similar operation.
Does anyone question Consumer Reports study?
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I like CR for the reliability ratings, but I'm not a big fan of there magazine reviews. Car and Driver usually only test new cars so there is no way for them to say how well it will hold up. They do mention build quality, especially when talking about Toyota. There long term tests are usaully not too long IMO> JD Powers is a good source for quality.
Sometimes when you read a CR Magazine about cars you get the impression that American made cars and trucks could not get the time of day from CR staffers even if they begged for it.
On the other hand, when I look at most Japanese designed vehicles, I do see a level of quality beyond what is usually seen in American vehicles.
Where is the well designed American small car? I give up. You would think that they could at least copy a Corolla or a Civic.
Don't look now-the Japanese are catching up with American pick-up trucks!
Japanese SUVs are nice-I would not mind having a 4Runner or a Landcruiser.
Perhaps Americans still have a slight lead in mini vans.
But Japanese designed vehicles are not perfect. Was there ever any information in a CR Magazine concerning the alleged Toyota sludge problems? I don't know-I don't read every CR Magazine.
Perhaps CR should take a look at the quality (or lack of quality) of Toyota dealerships. I personally have not found a decent Toyota dealership yet, and don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about-I have owned two Toyotas. Maybe Saturn cars are not the equal of Japanese designed cars, but Saturn dealerships are at least half way decent.
On the other hand, when I look at most Japanese designed vehicles, I do see a level of quality beyond what is usually seen in American vehicles.
Where is the well designed American small car? I give up. You would think that they could at least copy a Corolla or a Civic.
Don't look now-the Japanese are catching up with American pick-up trucks!
Japanese SUVs are nice-I would not mind having a 4Runner or a Landcruiser.
Perhaps Americans still have a slight lead in mini vans.
But Japanese designed vehicles are not perfect. Was there ever any information in a CR Magazine concerning the alleged Toyota sludge problems? I don't know-I don't read every CR Magazine.
Perhaps CR should take a look at the quality (or lack of quality) of Toyota dealerships. I personally have not found a decent Toyota dealership yet, and don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about-I have owned two Toyotas. Maybe Saturn cars are not the equal of Japanese designed cars, but Saturn dealerships are at least half way decent.
Labman I live in the rust belt and I can assure you that the Japaness are cars and trucks do not rust any faster then ours. If you maid that statement in the 1970's I might have played along. Heck Ford did not start hot dipping it's sheet metal until a few years ago. GM and Dodge could not keep the paint on the cars (see paint delamination). The fastners on Domestic brands are low grade garbage. The so called sludge engines that Toyota has taken a beating on are no longer used in the U.S. and they have agreed to replace or rebuild your sludge monster for the next 8 years of ownership no questions asked! My family has had one Japanesse car develop cancer since 1971 and that is a 1982 Toyota Starlet that still runs like champ and uses no oil at all. The only ones that were really bad were the early Datsuns and Honda's!!!
There is another source of repair reliability data on the internet. CANADIAN Automobile Association publishes autopinion yearly. See the link for the 2003 edition. Not all USA models are covered. Only one Acura is listed. Toyota Sienna does not do badly in the engine category. Charts are broken into logical divisions based on a platform used for several years. There even is a list of sample size. I own a Honda and see that the Civic, Integra and Odyssey do not do as well in Canada according to CAA as in Consumer Reports. As an auto association, CAA probably has its own priorities.
http://www.caa.ca/e/automotive/pdf/autopinion-03.pdf
[ July 01, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: thrace ]
http://www.caa.ca/e/automotive/pdf/autopinion-03.pdf
[ July 01, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: thrace ]
I believe the main flaw with the test was their conclusion. Based on really no specific criteria they recommended a number like 7K oil changes. When there was really no data to support. In other words - why 7K when there was no difference between 3K and 6K why not 8K, or 9K.. or
I think If you read CR you see they don't just slam American cars, they test them and tell you what they found. Some do very well.
Some quotes from CR
sept. 2000
"Ford focus- The best small sedan we tested"
Then three years later:
"In terms of overall performance, the agile and roomy Ford Focus ($16,000 to $17,500) has topped our Ratings, but persistent reliability problems keep us from recommending it. "
It doesn't seem that unfair.
2003-
"The Cavalier and the similar Pontiac Sunfire are unpleasant, crude, and outdated"
-OUCH
Some quotes from CR
sept. 2000
"Ford focus- The best small sedan we tested"
Then three years later:
"In terms of overall performance, the agile and roomy Ford Focus ($16,000 to $17,500) has topped our Ratings, but persistent reliability problems keep us from recommending it. "
It doesn't seem that unfair.
2003-
"The Cavalier and the similar Pontiac Sunfire are unpleasant, crude, and outdated"
-OUCH
They tought the Honda Accord (Made in the USA and previous generation had 90%+ domestic content), Honda Civic (Made in Ohio & Canada), Toyota Camry (built in Kentucky) and those in the top 10 selling list of cars. So in reality they support American built autos.quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus:
They badmouth American made autos so bad that it almost seems like they are on the take from the jap automakers. Kinda wonder how many Americans they put out of a job because of this.....
Have you been in one of these things and driven around in it? I have!
When it comes to checking out a new coffeemaker, or maybe a blender, CR is one (1) of the resources I'm likely to check out...
As far as electronics, cars, motorcycles, guns, OIL & airplanes are concerned, I think there may be better sources of information & opinion.
available.
As far as electronics, cars, motorcycles, guns, OIL & airplanes are concerned, I think there may be better sources of information & opinion.
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