Does anyone have any data on Redline?

[dragboat]

I once fixed apparent piston slap or other internal noise by replacing the spring type timing belt tensioner on a Asian built car"Honda"

Noise could also be piston pins or related small end of the rod,or just plain the cam "Pistons are not entirely round when new" is worn down on the piston and ya got some slap now

That Honda just got it's cylinder head trued up,but what about the deck of the block? was it checked?

Although many will disagree,those perma torque type head gaskets really need retorquing after 1st heat cycle,when I build a engine using these type gaskets,I let them set for 30 minutes then loosen all heads bolts 1/4 turn and retorque

This is spoke about in the back tech sections of Felpro and other head gasket maufacturers,,although not a must,I think it is a good idea in my opinion

 

[dragboat]

The_Oz ,

Concerning what Moly Redline uses,I believe asking Molakule would get you a answer. Probably a Thiocarbonate type moly would be my guess

 

[Bror Jace]

Guys, you guys are right. I'm hearing a touch more noise that I did 3+ weeks ago but I'm not really sure where it's coming from. Also, the car seems to be down a few percent on power. I'm trying not to let this bug me. We'll see if the Schaeffer blend makes the noise disappear and I just want to keep the car for another 9-12 months and then I'll get something new or newer.

As I said before in the thread about Amsoil & piston slap, I'm not a firm believer in heavier oil films preventing piston skirt wear. I think in that area, the barrier additives play a more important role ... especially once your motor already has symptoms.

No, the block was not sent out to be "decked." So, why would you true up the head but not the block when they have to mate with each other? Good question.

I think they were primarily concerned that nothing else was wrong with the head, like a crack. I pretty much trust these guys as they are former racers ... mostly RX-7s.

According to my mechanics, the new headbolts are a "stretchable" bolt which allows everything to remain tight even when things expand due to heat. They said they could tell that by the bolt taper as well as the way they felt when gave them that final twist and torques them down.

Anyway, I've been meaning to start a topic about new cars in the "off topic" section. I hope to get around to that in the next few days. Work has been pretty busy and time off been limited.

I'll post again in here a weekk or two after I try the Schaeffers. I plan on going about 4,000 miles on that stuff then having a sample tested. For that I'll start a new thread.

--- Bror Jace

 

[deepsquat]

WOW! 400 additional $$$ when the head was already off???? I could see $400 with the head on ...but the RandR of the head was already accounted for in the headgasket replacment ...should have only been another 150$$ or so dollars...Many years ago I did valve grinds for a living ..(1981) Valve job was 32..valve guids 4-8 each headresurface 30 (already paying for that in you headgasket r and r) stem seals 1 per valve ...I really can't see the prices being at $400

anyway good luck with the replacement...as for the lose of power...may be due to the head resurfacing ...it changes the compression ratio.

 

[Bror Jace]

I'm pretty sure the $400+ was for a complete rebuild including new valve guides, etc ... and that is a 4-valve head (16 valves). Didn't get too much into it, though. Don't want to spend that much more money on a car I won't be keeping too much longer.

I would have thought that planing the heads would raise the compression and give a boost to horsepower ... even if it was not perceptible.

Oh well ...

--- Bror Jace

 

[sprintman]

Redline email says "organic molybednum compound, it is not moly disulphide"

 

[Bror Jace]

Well, I changed my oil (Schaeffer 7000 Supreme blend 10W30) on Saturday and sent a sample off to Blackstone today after lunch. I couldn't make up my mind whether I should start a new thread (since I switched brands of oils) or use this old thread since it's the same car. In the end, I decided to use this existing thread because I wouldn't have to re-type the history of my car's coolant leak. It's all documented above.

Upon getting a phone call from Blackstone telling me that yes, I DID have a coolant leak and it appeared to be getting worse, I changed my oil that day (using Pennzoil so Johnny's kids won't have to run around wearing burlap sacks.

) and made an appointment to get my car fixed. 2 weeks later it went into the shop for a new headgasket. Several hundred dollars later, I get my car back and they had changed the oil again. Right off the bat, the car felt down on power. I had just gotten my Schaeffer stuff so I gave the thing a Neutra purge (about 3 ounces for 5-6 days and 250 miles) and another oil change. Right before that oil change, I noticed an audible ticking or light knocking sound which changed with RPM as long as the motor was under load.

At least the new oil got an exceptionally clean start.

Anyway, I drove it like this for a couple months and then had the shop check the valves, timing, etc ... and it turned out that the ignition timing was too retarded. They readjusted that and the power and mileage returned to normal but the noise persisted and may even be a little louder now.

Well, I knew my days with this car were numbered for the last year or so. but that's especially true now. I have to decide what I'm getting next, but that's a whole thread in and of itself ... perhaps in the "General & Off Topic" section?

Anyway, when I changed the oil this past weekend, I used Schaeffer 7000 5W30 and added most of a pint of #132 Moly EP additive. Noise hasn't changed but currently, I see "no change" as a positive sign. Gotta get this lil' bugger through the winter as the car is currently set-up for foul weather driving and any of its likely replacements won't be.

--- Bror Jace

[ December 10, 2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Bror Jace ]

 

[sprintman]

Have you done an Auto-Rx clean? Thats the best chance of fixing a ticky lifter IMO.

 

[satterfi]

quote:

---

Originally posted by sprintman:
Have you done an Auto-Rx clean? Thats the best chance of fixing a ticky lifter IMO.

---

I didn't know any Civic's had lifters.

 

[sprintman]

Duh I'm a dropkick!!

 

[Bror Jace]

I've heard a stuck lifter in an OHC engine before, and the ticking noise in my motor is definitely not that. Stuck lifters are a little inconsistent/intermittent and very loud.

This is a lot subtler, very consistent and is best heard at 1,000-2,500 rpms or so when the engine is under load. I strongly suspect bearing wear.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

4th Blackstone Lab results:

Honda 1.5L 4-cyl
Schaeffer Supreme 7000 10W30 oil
Hastings LF-402 filter
4,153 Mile Interval (September to December)
K&N cone air filter
Miles at time of test: 127,290
During the interval, the engine used 0.25 qt. “make-up” oil.

Notes from Blackstone: “Your main concern was that the antifreeze leak has been stopped, and from what we can tell, it has been. The 30 ppm potassium and 14ppm sodium is most likely residual and should all but disappear in the next sample. You were also concerned about lower end wear, but the bearings look fine; in fact they’re wearing better than they have in any sample we’ve seen from your Honda. We think your engine is doing OK now.”

The following are the parts-per-million readings:

Aluminum 4
Chromium 3
Iron 10
Copper 4
Lead 4
Tin 0
Molybdenum 84
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 30
Boron 11
Silicon 15
Sodium 14
Calcium 1847
Magnesium 10
Phosphorous 801
Zinc 928
Barium 24

Flash Point (degrees Fahrenheit): 400 (should be above 375)
Fuel: less than 0.5% (should be less than 2%)
Sustained viscosity @210 degrees: 59 (should be between 59 and 65)
Antifreeze: 0.0 (Should be 0%)
Water: 0.0% (should be less than 0.05%)
Insolubles: 0.4% (should be less than 0.6%)

— Bror Jace

 

[Patman]

Looks great Bror! Schaeffer oil is going head to head with Redline and coming out looking great!

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Also, don't know if you got this before the posts got lost, but have you adjusted the valve lash and seen if that helps the ticking?

 

[Bror Jace]

I see we lost some posts when the site went down yesterday afternoon.

Jason pointed out (correctly, I believe) that it’s not fair to compare Red Line and Schaeffer in this instance because all my Red Line samples were glycol contaminated.

The Schaeffer did hold up well, but it seems that it has thinned out some, being at the bottom of the 10W30 weight range. It also got an exceptionally clean start ... as I outlined in an earlier post. That’s not really an unfair "advantage" mind you, all oils should get such a start if you are going to derive any conclusions from a first test ... which you probably shouldn’t.

Still, I’m pleased with it and I’d use it again in my next car. A buddy of mine was using Max-Life with good effect in his Honda Civic which has well over 150,000 miles on it ... until they watered down the formula and he’s gonna switch to Schaeffer. Between the two of us, we can put together a $250 order and get free shipping. It’s just not cost effective with smaller orders.

Of course, I’d also like to give Red Line a clean run in a newer car.

Got to get that new car ... if I could only decide which one.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

Jason, I didn't mean to blow off your suggestion. I thought I answered this ... maybe it got deleted last week?

Anyway, the valve clearances were double checked and are fine.

I had been kicking around the notion that the Neutra I added reacted with the glycol contaminated bearings producing some sudden wear but if that was the case, there should be strong traces of lead in the follow-up sample ... and that has the lowest level of lead wear this thing has seen in over a year.

The latest theory was suggested to me by Ken and that it may be the distributor going. I can imagine a new distrubutor won't be cheap ... and I just spent a grand on the head gasket.

Time to give up and get a new car, I guess. I'll sell this thing to some kid for a couple grand and it'll probably serve him/her well for at least a few years. meanwhile, I need to get cracking on a replacement ...

--- Bror Jace