Does a OW-xx oil lube the upper end faster than a 5W-xx or 10W-xx oil?

[LVHospiceRN]

Okay, i have a question...

I LIKE GC...for many reasons...lubrication just being oe of them....but i have a question not GC specific...

Does a oil that is rated OW lubricate the upper end of a engine faster than a 5W or 10W oil would?

Logic, at least to my pea sized brain, seems to say it would...afterall its a bit thinner at start up...whether start up is -10 or or 50 degrees...

I would think it would lubricate a bit faster...that bit getting smaller and smaller as the start up temperature rose...

Thoughts?

darrell
sin city

 

[bruce381]

depending on oil temp a 0w will flow to the top end faster than a 5W or 10W.
Cold crank max temp:
0W max -30C
5W max -25C
10W max -20C
so if oil is at say -20C the 10W is marginal for startup flow where both the 5W and 0W will flow at least down to thier max temps.

 

[y_p_w]

Well - I think the AW additives help protect to some extent with a cold start. However - simply being a 0W doesn't automatically mean it's thinner at all temps than a 5W oil.

A 0W-40 is typically going to be thicker than a 10W-30 at summer ambient temps. The VI improvers and inherent VI start doing their thing long before the oil would be considered "warm". I'm not sure what the crossover point would be where Mobil 1 0W-40 is the same vis as Drive Clean 5000 10W-30. I'd guess less than 50 deg F.

 

[bruce381]

What? AW additives have nothing to do with his question about cold flow to the top end of an engine. Yes AW additves will protect for a small amount of time but oil flow to upper end is important.
"simply being a 0W doesn't automatically mean it's thinner at all temps than a 5W oil."

To qualify as a 0W or 5W oil the oil must flow at certain given temps. Speaking of the cold end a 0w will flow at a lower temp than a 5W or a 10W.

 

[Blue99]

quote:

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I would think it would lubricate a bit faster...that bit getting smaller and smaller as the start up temperature rose...

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I think the key word, here is "bit".

When an oil is less than 200 cSt, at 50-60F or higher degrees, regardless of the viscosity grade, cold start wear is minimal.

And the unknown, here, is how much of cold start wear is attributed to simply the thermal expansion of the various dis-similar materials & cross-sections of the engine components?

I'll wager that your favorite engine running 10W-30 dino in San Diego, CA will exhibit less wear at 200K + miles than the same engine running either 0W or 5W-30 in Minneapolis, MN over the same mileage & time interval.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

All this is well and good but the start up temps matter more than the winter weight. If it is 70°f then the 0w os not relevant. if it is
-30°f it is relevant. a 0w30 could be thicker at 70 than a 10w30. But at mild temperatures does it matter? I don't think so. basicly I chose based on the operating temperature in my climate because winter low temp ratings are irrelevant in south texas. However it does sindicate something about the base oil and its viscosity index.

 

[moribundman]

Even if a 0W-X gets up there faster, I have my doubts if the thickest possible oil film remains, or if the oil "runs off" when the engine is being shut off. When I was using 0W-40 and when I touched the cam lobes, they felt basically dry to the touch. With 5W-50, a thicker film remained. I don't know what's more important, more oil to begin with or more fresh oil faster. Engine design may be a factor, too. I know my engine keeps oil close to the cams via oil retention valves.

 

[mechtech]

With an oil pressure sensor on the cam bearings, thinner oils would make the light go out much faster than thick oils, at start up.
Especially when cold.
The sensor was at the non supply end of the cams.
VW GTI

 

[Dr. T]

The answer is a resounding "NO", unless you are starting at temps. below -30 to -35C at which point the "0" will outperform a 5W or 10W (all else being equal).

 

[goodvibes]

quote:

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Originally posted by bruce381:
What? AW additives have nothing to do with his question about cold flow to the top end of an engine. Yes AW additves will protect for a small amount of time but oil flow to upper end is important.
"simply being a 0W doesn't automatically mean it's thinner at all temps than a 5W oil."

To qualify as a 0W or 5W oil the oil must flow at certain given temps. Speaking of the cold end a 0w will flow at a lower temp than a 5W or a 10W.

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Mobil 1 10w30 has a 40C vis. of 62 and the 0w40 has a 80. At high ambient temps the 10w 30 is absolutely thinner. Same oil and a 10 point cold spread. The curves probably overlap somewhere between 60* and 70*F.
At cold temps, yes a thinner oil will lubricate better as it just kind of splashes around up there. It will get up to the valves cover in a similar amount of time in many motors but thinner will be lubricating better. I don't think it's a big deal unless there's a pretty good spread in Visc and winter temps.

 

[y_p_w]

quote:

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Originally posted by goodvibes:

quote:

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Originally posted by bruce381:
What? AW additives have nothing to do with his question about cold flow to the top end of an engine. Yes AW additves will protect for a small amount of time but oil flow to upper end is important.
"simply being a 0W doesn't automatically mean it's thinner at all temps than a 5W oil."

To qualify as a 0W or 5W oil the oil must flow at certain given temps. Speaking of the cold end a 0w will flow at a lower temp than a 5W or a 10W.

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Mobil 1 10w30 has a 40C vis. of 62 and the 0w40 has a 80. At high ambient temps the 10w 30 is absolutely thinner. Same oil and a 10 point cold spread. The curves probably overlap somewhere between 60* and 70*F.
At cold temps, yes a thinner oil will lubricate better as it just kind of splashes around up there. It will get up to the valves cover in a similar amount of time in many motors but thinner will be lubricating better. I don't think it's a big deal unless there's a pretty good spread in Visc and winter temps.

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Some people are still using SAE 30 in warm climates. Probably the only reason why it's no longer recommended for warm weather is for fuel economy reasons.

 

[haley10]

For your climate (and mine, much of the time). The 0W part of GC is of no benefit. It is actually thicker at ambient than M1 10W-30 e.g.

I think maybe 427ZO6 has posted some of these charts before. It's got to get a lot colder than I will ever see for GC to actually flow better than M1 5W-30.

Plus some oils like Amsoil 10W-30 ATM, actually have better cold flow properties than the 10W implies.

I know some of our Canadian posters look more at MRV and CCS #'s, when cold start is critical.

 

[zoomzoom]

M1 5W-30 will flow faster then GC 0W-30 all the way down to about -20C...

so it is not always the case that 0W will flow faster the 5W..in the extreme conditions below -20C that will be the case but I doubt you will ever experience those..

 

[Pablo]

Remember - SAE W ratings are viscosity ranges at varying temps.

In simplistic terms - at cold temps, yes a 0W will pump up more rapidly, but as the others have pointed out - this benefit will rapidly trail off as temps climb.

 

[427Z06]

My ears were burning.

code:

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Kinematic Viscosity in cSt

T(C) M1 5w40 * M1 0W40 * GC 0W30 * M1 10W30

0° 1066 599.3 546.6 595.7

10° 523 327.6 291.8 298.3

20° 282 192.9 168.8 164.1

30° 164 121.0 104.4 97.6

40° 102.0 80.0 68.4 62.0

50° 67.1 55.4 47.0 41.6

60° 46.2 39.8 33.7 29.2

70° 33.2 29.7 25.0 21.4

80° 24.6 22.7 19.1 16.1

90° 18.9 17.8 15.0 12.5

100° 14.8 14.3 12.0 10.0

110° 11.9 11.7 9.8 8.1

120° 9.7 9.8 8.2 6.7

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[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

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Originally posted by y_p_w:

quote:

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Originally posted by haley10:
Good info ZO6. So we see that M1 10W-30 is thinner above 68°F and no distinct advantage down to the freezing point of water of the 0W's.

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While this is all fine and dandy, the curve applies to unused oil. I'm curious as to what happens with used oil given that M1 0W-40 has certain "properties" of thinning and thickening.

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"Yep" (My best Hank Hill voice)

My third grade logic tells me a oil that is "thinner" would reach the top end of an engine quicker. How much quicker and if its really an issue is the question....

darrell
sin city

 

[haley10]

Good info ZO6. So we see that M1 10W-30 is thinner above 68°F and no distinct advantage down to the freezing point of water of the 0W's.

 

[y_p_w]

quote:

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Originally posted by haley10:
Good info ZO6. So we see that M1 10W-30 is thinner above 68°F and no distinct advantage down to the freezing point of water of the 0W's.

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While this is all fine and dandy, the curve applies to unused oil. I'm curious as to what happens with used oil given that M1 0W-40 has certain "properties" of thinning and thickening.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by y_p_w:
While this is all fine and dandy, the curve applies to unused oil. I'm curious as to what happens with used oil given that M1 0W-40 has certain "properties" of thinning and thickening.

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Such tests are available if you have the cash.

 

[Raven18940]

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
My ears were burning.

code:

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Kinematic Viscosity in cSt

T(C) M1 5w40 * M1 0W40 * GC 0W30 * M1 10W30

0° 1066 599.3 546.6 595.7

10° 523 327.6 291.8 298.3

20° 282 192.9 168.8 164.1

30° 164 121.0 104.4 97.6

40° 102.0 80.0 68.4 62.0

50° 67.1 55.4 47.0 41.6

60° 46.2 39.8 33.7 29.2

70° 33.2 29.7 25.0 21.4

80° 24.6 22.7 19.1 16.1

90° 18.9 17.8 15.0 12.5

100° 14.8 14.3 12.0 10.0

110° 11.9 11.7 9.8 8.1

120° 9.7 9.8 8.2 6.7

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Ummmmm, noobish question, but what viscocity do you want at operating temps?