Dodge leaving Nascar at end of season

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
Yeah, but the LS400 is rear wheel drive with a V8, still a Toyota. As is, the SC. I'm also aware that they aren't racing these in Nascar.

If only they'd put a V8 in the FR-S.

Maybe they could stack two of the boxer 4's on top of each other...

 

[morris]

nascar= crazy rules nascar said ford had to sell so many boss 429s. so ford put the engine in mustangs for the street. but raced the engine in the Torino at nascar. and they want me to take them seriously?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted By: aquartlow
There's the biggest reason for Nascar's decline, in my opinion.

I just assume (or hope) that people are simply getting bored of it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Yes, he would. Not like he could have stopped it...or done anything beyond complain or retire. The downward spiral started when the bandsaw-like whining from the other teams (there was no competition!) got the 426 Hemi banned, the aero cars first castrated and then banned, and continued to this point, where NASCAR is essentially a caricature of itself, a spec-racing series with a bunch of clone cars.


I would argue that it started even before that, with the banning of the 427 SOHC. That seemed to start the whole slide, with the subsequent banning of the 426 HEMI, BOSS 429...etc.


They banned the Hemi before the 427 Cammer...heck, the Cammer was Ford's RESPONSE to the 426 Hemi!

 

[VicVinegar]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
NASCAR died the day Dale Earnhardt did. There's no way in heck he would have let the sport degenerate into the cluster [censored] it is today.


+1

Greggy's right on here. I could care less about the horse and pony show they call it now, but they don't really even race much anymore. What ever happened to "rubbing is racing"? Not every race is going to be clean and pretty. I miss that. If Dale had to shake ya up" to win, he'd do it.

Now it's just a bunch of pretty boys who are afraid to offend or [censored] people off....sad.

Some of the best racers [censored] people off...including Richard Petty...


It is just like anything else. Someone is always out there trying to sanitize everything in our lives. I'm not sure who actually likes it better, but the "sanitizers" seem to be winning. Look at the NFL. You run full bore to sack the QB and if he throws at the last second and you can't contort your body to avoid him, you now get called for roughing. Both guys happen to hit helmets? Penalty on the defensive player.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Yes, he would. Not like he could have stopped it...or done anything beyond complain or retire. The downward spiral started when the bandsaw-like whining from the other teams (there was no competition!) got the 426 Hemi banned, the aero cars first castrated and then banned, and continued to this point, where NASCAR is essentially a caricature of itself, a spec-racing series with a bunch of clone cars.


I would argue that it started even before that, with the banning of the 427 SOHC. That seemed to start the whole slide, with the subsequent banning of the 426 HEMI, BOSS 429...etc.


They banned the Hemi before the 427 Cammer...heck, the Cammer was Ford's RESPONSE to the 426 Hemi!


That's not how I remember it playing out. Ford came out with the Cammer in response to the 426 HEMI. The Cammer wasn't allowed to run (supposedly because Dodge made a stink saying they'd pull out if Ford was allowed to run it) and so the engine was banned. Ford then later ran the BOSS 429.

And it pretty much had to play out that way, because the 426 and BOSS 429 were run at the same time. And the BOSS 429 came out a number of years after the Cammer.

The Cammer came out in 1964 and was banned before being allowed to run in the 1965 racing season. It is the only ENGINE ever to be banned completely from NASCAR competition.

HOWEVER

The 426 HEMI wasn't allowed to run in the 1965 racing season either because rules (that were changed for 1965 which led to Ford subsequently stepping out of competition for 1966) required it to be fitted to a production vehicle, which it wasn't. This was rectified for the 1966 racing season and it was used until 1971.

The BOSS 429 came out in 1969 to compete against the 426 HEMI, which wouldn't have been possible if the 426 had been banned already

Both of the big boys were then legislated out of existence with the 358ci displacement limit and the implementation of restrictor plates.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
In reality NASCAR is losing much of its fan base, and the "cars" are only a fiberglass shell that bears a remote resemblance to a street car. There is no real sport in NASCAR, it's nothing more than a huge commercial.

There used to be a saying-win on Sunday and sell on Monday. That no longer holds true, as more savvy consumers realize that what's on the track isn't what is in the showroom.

If Dodge wants to pursue an aging, white male demographic then NASCAR might be a good bet. But if they want to spend their advertising budget (and NASCAR is nothing more than a gigantic commercial) somewhere that will target younger, long term buyers, then there are far better venues than NASCAR. Getting out of NASCAR makes a lot of sense.


This. Extremely well stated.


When did they switch to fiberglass?

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: Kruse
I stopped watching NASCAR in the 90s. I haven't regretted it after I read that Toyota built an entirely new engine just for NASCAR and nothing else. On rare occasion, I'll view the highlights on ESPN.
My brother, a late bloomer fan of NASCAR, stopped watching it last year after the entirely way-too-long season basically ended up in a tie.
Seriously, if you don't drive a Chevy-branded car in NASCAR, you don't have a chance of winning the point chase at the end of the season.


Seriously? You think you can get a Ford or Chevy NASCAR engine in a production vehicle? Heck, sign me up!

They ALL build their engines for NASCAR, and NOTHING ELSE!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Kruse
I stopped watching NASCAR in the 90s. I haven't regretted it after I read that Toyota built an entirely new engine just for NASCAR and nothing else. On rare occasion, I'll view the highlights on ESPN.
My brother, a late bloomer fan of NASCAR, stopped watching it last year after the entirely way-too-long season basically ended up in a tie.
Seriously, if you don't drive a Chevy-branded car in NASCAR, you don't have a chance of winning the point chase at the end of the season.


Seriously? You think you can get a Ford or Chevy NASCAR engine in a production vehicle? Heck, sign me up!

They ALL build their engines for NASCAR, and NOTHING ELSE!

Up until 2003 you could get a Windsor in an Explorer, which is what Ford used as the basis for their NASCAR engine. (Notice I said basis here and not the same engine. The idea is to have the engine based in some respect on a production piece. And while the Explorer had a 302 and Ford's Nascar engine was based on the 351, they are still both Windsor engines and share the same architecture).

The limits of each platform (SBC, SBF...etc) are part of what each engine builder had to deal with when trying to one-up the guy running another brand.

Toyota's ability to go "clean sheet" meant that they could see what problems the (production) engine families from the other brands had and avoid them in building their piece.

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
In reality NASCAR is losing much of its fan base, and the "cars" are only a fiberglass shell that bears a remote resemblance to a street car. There is no real sport in NASCAR, it's nothing more than a huge commercial.

There used to be a saying-win on Sunday and sell on Monday. That no longer holds true, as more savvy consumers realize that what's on the track isn't what is in the showroom.

If Dodge wants to pursue an aging, white male demographic then NASCAR might be a good bet. But if they want to spend their advertising budget (and NASCAR is nothing more than a gigantic commercial) somewhere that will target younger, long term buyers, then there are far better venues than NASCAR. Getting out of NASCAR makes a lot of sense.


This. Extremely well stated.


When did they switch to fiberglass?

Thank you! the bodies are sheet metal.

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

I truly wish they would change the rules to most closely resemble Aussie V8 Supercars. Even those are not stock cars anymore, although they use stock body components according to Nissan's new entry. When you think about it, with the speeds they are going around these ovals, it probably isn't safe or cost effective to use a "stock body" Fusion or Camry. Just think what would happen if a stock body Fusion slammed the wall at 200+mph.


and @ least real world versions the GM (Holden)and Ford cars in the aussie v8's ARE RWD V8's.

am I the only one that would like to see a race between these 2 series. bring your regular race car, find a track on neutral ground somewhere... maybe it's just me though..

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: earlyre
and @ least real world versions the GM (Holden)and Ford cars in the aussie v8's ARE RWD V8's.

am I the only one that would like to see a race between these 2 series. bring your regular race car, find a track on neutral ground somewhere... maybe it's just me though..


That would be awesome. Or even have the round of Aussie V8's at COTA be an enduro race with NASCAR drivers as the second drivers.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
In reality NASCAR is losing much of its fan base, and the "cars" are only a fiberglass shell that bears a remote resemblance to a street car. There is no real sport in NASCAR, it's nothing more than a huge commercial.

There used to be a saying-win on Sunday and sell on Monday. That no longer holds true, as more savvy consumers realize that what's on the track isn't what is in the showroom.

If Dodge wants to pursue an aging, white male demographic then NASCAR might be a good bet. But if they want to spend their advertising budget (and NASCAR is nothing more than a gigantic commercial) somewhere that will target younger, long term buyers, then there are far better venues than NASCAR. Getting out of NASCAR makes a lot of sense.


This. Extremely well stated.


When did they switch to fiberglass?


Why the focus on this point? He made plenty of very good points in his post, and I agree with the gist of it. Who cares if he got one fact wrong? They are a generic shell on a tube chassis stickered up to be a specific "car".

A far cry from the days of cars like these:

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
In reality NASCAR is losing much of its fan base, and the "cars" are only a fiberglass shell that bears a remote resemblance to a street car. There is no real sport in NASCAR, it's nothing more than a huge commercial.

There used to be a saying-win on Sunday and sell on Monday. That no longer holds true, as more savvy consumers realize that what's on the track isn't what is in the showroom.

If Dodge wants to pursue an aging, white male demographic then NASCAR might be a good bet. But if they want to spend their advertising budget (and NASCAR is nothing more than a gigantic commercial) somewhere that will target younger, long term buyers, then there are far better venues than NASCAR. Getting out of NASCAR makes a lot of sense.


This. Extremely well stated.


When did they switch to fiberglass?


Why the focus on this point? He made plenty of very good points in his post, and I agree with the gist of it. Who cares if he got one fact wrong? They are a generic shell on a tube chassis stickered up to be a specific "car".

A far cry from the days of cars like these:

Sensitive or what?

I thought they may have switch.

 

[OVERKILL]

No, not sensitive at all! I just felt he made plenty of good points so I was surprised to see people picking on him for getting that one tiny fact wrong while seemingly ignoring the otherwise excellent message of his post.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Agreed. Nit picky. They are carbon copies in a candy shell. It's thinner than 'glass anyway!

Great old photos. I miss those glory days.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
No, not sensitive at all! I just felt he made plenty of good points so I was surprised to see people picking on him for getting that one tiny fact wrong while seemingly ignoring the otherwise excellent message of his post.


But you quoted my question. How is that "picking" on him? Or "nitpicking?"

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
No, not sensitive at all! I just felt he made plenty of good points so I was surprised to see people picking on him for getting that one tiny fact wrong while seemingly ignoring the otherwise excellent message of his post.


But you quoted my question. How is that "picking" on him? Or "nitpicking?"


I think we may have our wires crossed. I took your question as one that was rhetorical in nature, not legitimate.

It appears that earlyre viewed your question in the same light, as he continued to run with it.

Obviously you have now made it clear that this was not your intention, so I apologize for singling you out. I had concluded that you were attempting to detract from the value of the post you quoted by focusing on this one inaccuracy.

 

[A_Harman]

Hopefully Dodge will come back.
And with a Hemi.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
In reality NASCAR is losing much of its fan base, and the "cars" are only a fiberglass shell that bears a remote resemblance to a street car. There is no real sport in NASCAR, it's nothing more than a huge commercial.

There used to be a saying-win on Sunday and sell on Monday. That no longer holds true, as more savvy consumers realize that what's on the track isn't what is in the showroom.

If Dodge wants to pursue an aging, white male demographic then NASCAR might be a good bet. But if they want to spend their advertising budget (and NASCAR is nothing more than a gigantic commercial) somewhere that will target younger, long term buyers, then there are far better venues than NASCAR. Getting out of NASCAR makes a lot of sense.


More bla bla bla, poster don't know Jack, Dodge(ahem Fiat) is getting out because no good team is interested in running their stuff(not even Petty)... They offered Penske a year extension while Ford offered a THREE year deal, what would you do???

The 2013 cars are going to look more like the street versions, again with a steel body...