I wonder if this transmission will use ATF +4 or the Hyundai SP-III.
Dodge Dart to use transmission from Hyundai
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AFAIK, SP-III and ATF+4 are pretty similar fluids, and lots of people have had good luck with ATF+4 in Hyundai trannies, so I'd expect it'll use the Chrysler stuff.
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
Mechanically, no. I also love their advertising. Their cars, not so much, for reasons already gone into.
I hope Dodge can make the transmissions work. They need the Dart launch to go without a hitch.
I think the same could be said for GM products as well, plenty of aformentioned threads on those, but the way you word "make the transmissions work", are you saying it as in working with the Chrysler programming, or that the transmissions have some kind of issue that Chrysler needs to fix?
Mechanically, no. I also love their advertising. Their cars, not so much, for reasons already gone into.
I hope Dodge can make the transmissions work. They need the Dart launch to go without a hitch.
I think the same could be said for GM products as well, plenty of aformentioned threads on those, but the way you word "make the transmissions work", are you saying it as in working with the Chrysler programming, or that the transmissions have some kind of issue that Chrysler needs to fix?
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Mechanically, no. I also love their advertising. Their cars, not so much, for reasons already gone into.
I hope Dodge can make the transmissions work. They need the Dart launch to go without a hitch.
I think the same could be said for GM products as well, plenty of aformentioned threads on those, but the way you word "make the transmissions work", are you saying it as in working with the Chrysler programming, or that the transmissions have some kind of issue that Chrysler needs to fix?
The former. As in, make the Chrysler-sourced engine controller talk nicely with the Hyundai-supplied transmission controller. Just because the transmission bolts up doesn't mean it'll work right out of the box without a bunch of electronics wizardry.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Mechanically, no. I also love their advertising. Their cars, not so much, for reasons already gone into.
I hope Dodge can make the transmissions work. They need the Dart launch to go without a hitch.
I think the same could be said for GM products as well, plenty of aformentioned threads on those, but the way you word "make the transmissions work", are you saying it as in working with the Chrysler programming, or that the transmissions have some kind of issue that Chrysler needs to fix?
The former. As in, make the Chrysler-sourced engine controller talk nicely with the Hyundai-supplied transmission controller. Just because the transmission bolts up doesn't mean it'll work right out of the box without a bunch of electronics wizardry.
Propflux01
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
The former. As in, make the Chrysler-sourced engine controller talk nicely with the Hyundai-supplied transmission controller. Just because the transmission bolts up doesn't mean it'll work right out of the box without a bunch of electronics wizardry.
I see, Makes sense. I am sure It shouldn't be too hard to make it work, IIRC, short of a few solenoids there really isn't too much more in a tranny, all the "thinking" comes from the main computer anyhow, with just the "Do this or that" signals getting sent to the tranny computer.
The former. As in, make the Chrysler-sourced engine controller talk nicely with the Hyundai-supplied transmission controller. Just because the transmission bolts up doesn't mean it'll work right out of the box without a bunch of electronics wizardry.
I see, Makes sense. I am sure It shouldn't be too hard to make it work, IIRC, short of a few solenoids there really isn't too much more in a tranny, all the "thinking" comes from the main computer anyhow, with just the "Do this or that" signals getting sent to the tranny computer.
Last year I read an article in Automotive News that was discussing just such a thing.
Interestingly I believe that the type of coding that these companies use (in their computer modules) is different from one another so they will have to create a new source code to make each communcate with the other. Right?
Interestingly I believe that the type of coding that these companies use (in their computer modules) is different from one another so they will have to create a new source code to make each communcate with the other. Right?
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Propflux01
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Originally Posted By: morris
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. ....
Oh Boy, here we go again...
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. ....
Oh Boy, here we go again...
Originally Posted By: morris
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Unfortunately Chrysler is essentially OWNED by FIAT. It is that simple....as for Chrysler being able to build a good trans...ask the millions of Dodge Ram owners and Minivan owners about that...lots will disagree completely. I worked for a Dodge store back in the 90s and they had tons of issues with their auto transmissions in Ram and Caravan. Many had to be replaced after only months of use.
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Unfortunately Chrysler is essentially OWNED by FIAT. It is that simple....as for Chrysler being able to build a good trans...ask the millions of Dodge Ram owners and Minivan owners about that...lots will disagree completely. I worked for a Dodge store back in the 90s and they had tons of issues with their auto transmissions in Ram and Caravan. Many had to be replaced after only months of use.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: morris
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Unfortunately Chrysler is essentially OWNED by FIAT. It is that simple....as for Chrysler being able to build a good trans...ask the millions of Dodge Ram owners and Minivan owners about that...lots will disagree completely. I worked for a Dodge store back in the 90s and they had tons of issues with their auto transmissions in Ram and Caravan. Many had to be replaced after only months of use.
That was getting close to 20 years ago, lots of things have changed. Ask how many Ram owners have gotten *flawless* performance out of their 545RFE transmissions. Ask how well the 61TE is doing in recent minivans. Answer: well above industry average for both vehicle types. Of course right now Honda is positively wrecking the "industry average" in the minivan category with their 60,000 mile time-bomb Odyssey transmissions.
That said, if a good transmission that's already in production can be purchased and is more efficient than hanging an oversized existing tranny (like the 61TE) in the new compact, then why not use it? Heck, no one ever complained when Chrysler bought the Aisin AW4 for the Cherokee because the in-house A500 would a) have to be modified to work and b) was overkill for the little straight 6 in a light vehicle anyway. ~6 million vehicles and 20 years later, the 4.0/AW4 in the XJ is still regarded as one of the most reliable drivetrain combinations ever.
Originally Posted By: morris
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Unfortunately Chrysler is essentially OWNED by FIAT. It is that simple....as for Chrysler being able to build a good trans...ask the millions of Dodge Ram owners and Minivan owners about that...lots will disagree completely. I worked for a Dodge store back in the 90s and they had tons of issues with their auto transmissions in Ram and Caravan. Many had to be replaced after only months of use.
That was getting close to 20 years ago, lots of things have changed. Ask how many Ram owners have gotten *flawless* performance out of their 545RFE transmissions. Ask how well the 61TE is doing in recent minivans. Answer: well above industry average for both vehicle types. Of course right now Honda is positively wrecking the "industry average" in the minivan category with their 60,000 mile time-bomb Odyssey transmissions.
That said, if a good transmission that's already in production can be purchased and is more efficient than hanging an oversized existing tranny (like the 61TE) in the new compact, then why not use it? Heck, no one ever complained when Chrysler bought the Aisin AW4 for the Cherokee because the in-house A500 would a) have to be modified to work and b) was overkill for the little straight 6 in a light vehicle anyway. ~6 million vehicles and 20 years later, the 4.0/AW4 in the XJ is still regarded as one of the most reliable drivetrain combinations ever.
OVERKILL
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I know the 61TE was/is having overdrive failure issues that a bearing upgrade fixed. One of the mechanics (who was working on one) told me this.
Originally Posted By: Rand
define american car?
is it that ford built in mexico,
the hyundai built in georgia
The GM built with 20% american parts.
the subaru built in usa with japan parts...
I get kinda lost.. someone define american auto for me.
To me it is -
The VIN starts with a 1 or 2 (I think Canadians buy a higher percentage of GM/Ford/Chrysler vehicles than Americans) and the World Corporate HQs for the company is located in the US.
The argument can be made that Chrysler is no longer an American company. I don't think the sale to Diamler should have been allowed to happen.
It has been well documented that the big 3 employ many more American and Canadians than the foreign nameplates.
define american car?
is it that ford built in mexico,
the hyundai built in georgia
The GM built with 20% american parts.
the subaru built in usa with japan parts...
I get kinda lost.. someone define american auto for me.
To me it is -
The VIN starts with a 1 or 2 (I think Canadians buy a higher percentage of GM/Ford/Chrysler vehicles than Americans) and the World Corporate HQs for the company is located in the US.
The argument can be made that Chrysler is no longer an American company. I don't think the sale to Diamler should have been allowed to happen.
It has been well documented that the big 3 employ many more American and Canadians than the foreign nameplates.
And?
What exactly does that really mean?
Are you going to tell me that a guy who works at one of the many Nissan Plants here in the US is un-American for not working for the big 3, or that he isn't really building a car that Americans should buy?
I would bet that any of the people that works at any of the Nissan, Subaru, Honda, Toyota, VW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, Kia, Hyundai, etc plants here in the US would be very happy to tell you that they build a [censored] good car, truck, SUV, Minivan, or whatever.
They collect their paychecks, and buy their families food and presents just like anyone who works for Ford, GM, or Chrysler does.
You're a dinosaur in this current world.
How many vehicles are available to purchase that are 100% American anymore, anyway? Not too many, I bet.
BC.
What exactly does that really mean?
Are you going to tell me that a guy who works at one of the many Nissan Plants here in the US is un-American for not working for the big 3, or that he isn't really building a car that Americans should buy?
I would bet that any of the people that works at any of the Nissan, Subaru, Honda, Toyota, VW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, Kia, Hyundai, etc plants here in the US would be very happy to tell you that they build a [censored] good car, truck, SUV, Minivan, or whatever.
They collect their paychecks, and buy their families food and presents just like anyone who works for Ford, GM, or Chrysler does.
You're a dinosaur in this current world.
How many vehicles are available to purchase that are 100% American anymore, anyway? Not too many, I bet.
BC.
The most "American" vehicle is a Toyota Camry, IIRC.
If they build them here using parts from here, and pay a fair wage/benefits, that's American enough for me. Sheesh, the money to build those factories probably came from American banks too!
If they build them here using parts from here, and pay a fair wage/benefits, that's American enough for me. Sheesh, the money to build those factories probably came from American banks too!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I know the 61TE was/is having overdrive failure issues that a bearing upgrade fixed. One of the mechanics (who was working on one) told me this.
I've heard that too. But what I've heard/read is that while there are enough failures to identify it for a fix, its NOTHING like the failure rate that the 41TE had when it was new or what the Honda minivan transmission is seeing.
I know the 61TE was/is having overdrive failure issues that a bearing upgrade fixed. One of the mechanics (who was working on one) told me this.
I've heard that too. But what I've heard/read is that while there are enough failures to identify it for a fix, its NOTHING like the failure rate that the 41TE had when it was new or what the Honda minivan transmission is seeing.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I know the 61TE was/is having overdrive failure issues that a bearing upgrade fixed. One of the mechanics (who was working on one) told me this.
I've heard that too. But what I've heard/read is that while there are enough failures to identify it for a fix, its NOTHING like the failure rate that the 41TE had when it was new or what the Honda minivan transmission is seeing.
Sounds about right. The guy I was talking to works at our largest Chrysler dealer and he'd done six of them (the bearing fix) from what I recall. he said it can be done quite easily in the vehicle without removing the transmission.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I know the 61TE was/is having overdrive failure issues that a bearing upgrade fixed. One of the mechanics (who was working on one) told me this.
I've heard that too. But what I've heard/read is that while there are enough failures to identify it for a fix, its NOTHING like the failure rate that the 41TE had when it was new or what the Honda minivan transmission is seeing.
Sounds about right. The guy I was talking to works at our largest Chrysler dealer and he'd done six of them (the bearing fix) from what I recall. he said it can be done quite easily in the vehicle without removing the transmission.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: morris
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Unfortunately Chrysler is essentially OWNED by FIAT. It is that simple....as for Chrysler being able to build a good trans...ask the millions of Dodge Ram owners and Minivan owners about that...lots will disagree completely. I worked for a Dodge store back in the 90s and they had tons of issues with their auto transmissions in Ram and Caravan. Many had to be replaced after only months of use.
That was getting close to 20 years ago, lots of things have changed. Ask how many Ram owners have gotten *flawless* performance out of their 545RFE transmissions. Ask how well the 61TE is doing in recent minivans. Answer: well above industry average for both vehicle types. Of course right now Honda is positively wrecking the "industry average" in the minivan category with their 60,000 mile time-bomb Odyssey transmissions.
That said, if a good transmission that's already in production can be purchased and is more efficient than hanging an oversized existing tranny (like the 61TE) in the new compact, then why not use it? Heck, no one ever complained when Chrysler bought the Aisin AW4 for the Cherokee because the in-house A500 would a) have to be modified to work and b) was overkill for the little straight 6 in a light vehicle anyway. ~6 million vehicles and 20 years later, the 4.0/AW4 in the XJ is still regarded as one of the most reliable drivetrain combinations ever.
+1. Speaking about Honda, I had more than a few customers come back [censored], looking to fight, or kill me for selling them the Honda car/mini van. It was always about the transmissions failing in their V6 Accords and Odyssey Mini vans, off lease just out of warranty. Their transmissions sucked right up until I left Honda in 2003.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Originally Posted By: morris
"American cars with foreign parts." isnt an american car. chrysler did know how to build a good trans, but not any more.
Unfortunately Chrysler is essentially OWNED by FIAT. It is that simple....as for Chrysler being able to build a good trans...ask the millions of Dodge Ram owners and Minivan owners about that...lots will disagree completely. I worked for a Dodge store back in the 90s and they had tons of issues with their auto transmissions in Ram and Caravan. Many had to be replaced after only months of use.
That was getting close to 20 years ago, lots of things have changed. Ask how many Ram owners have gotten *flawless* performance out of their 545RFE transmissions. Ask how well the 61TE is doing in recent minivans. Answer: well above industry average for both vehicle types. Of course right now Honda is positively wrecking the "industry average" in the minivan category with their 60,000 mile time-bomb Odyssey transmissions.
That said, if a good transmission that's already in production can be purchased and is more efficient than hanging an oversized existing tranny (like the 61TE) in the new compact, then why not use it? Heck, no one ever complained when Chrysler bought the Aisin AW4 for the Cherokee because the in-house A500 would a) have to be modified to work and b) was overkill for the little straight 6 in a light vehicle anyway. ~6 million vehicles and 20 years later, the 4.0/AW4 in the XJ is still regarded as one of the most reliable drivetrain combinations ever.
+1. Speaking about Honda, I had more than a few customers come back [censored], looking to fight, or kill me for selling them the Honda car/mini van. It was always about the transmissions failing in their V6 Accords and Odyssey Mini vans, off lease just out of warranty. Their transmissions sucked right up until I left Honda in 2003.
define american car? good Q. my short answer is the so called big 3. your Q is like asking what is a stock car? i call the 1968 hemi cuda is stock. but my chevy friend says no. figure it out for your self.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Rand
define american car?
is it that ford built in mexico,
the hyundai built in georgia
The GM built with 20% american parts.
the subaru built in usa with japan parts...
I get kinda lost.. someone define american auto for me.
To me it is -
The VIN starts with a 1 or 2 (I think Canadians buy a higher percentage of GM/Ford/Chrysler vehicles than Americans) and the World Corporate HQs for the company is located in the US.
The argument can be made that Chrysler is no longer an American company. I don't think the sale to Diamler should have been allowed to happen.
It has been well documented that the big 3 employ many more American and Canadians than the foreign nameplates.
Not entirely true.
Many versions of the Honda Accord and Honda Civic have a 1 as the first digit of the VIN.
Many versions of the Nissan Altima have a 1 for the first digit of the VIN.
Also, one reason the Big 3 have more employees per car is because they have signed union contracts that make getting rid of people more difficult, so assembly lines don't always get automated at the same rate.
Also, when I had my Saturn ION, the transmission was made in Japan, but somehow there was enough domestic content to have a 1 as the first digit of the VIN.
Originally Posted By: Rand
define american car?
is it that ford built in mexico,
the hyundai built in georgia
The GM built with 20% american parts.
the subaru built in usa with japan parts...
I get kinda lost.. someone define american auto for me.
To me it is -
The VIN starts with a 1 or 2 (I think Canadians buy a higher percentage of GM/Ford/Chrysler vehicles than Americans) and the World Corporate HQs for the company is located in the US.
The argument can be made that Chrysler is no longer an American company. I don't think the sale to Diamler should have been allowed to happen.
It has been well documented that the big 3 employ many more American and Canadians than the foreign nameplates.
Not entirely true.
Many versions of the Honda Accord and Honda Civic have a 1 as the first digit of the VIN.
Many versions of the Nissan Altima have a 1 for the first digit of the VIN.
Also, one reason the Big 3 have more employees per car is because they have signed union contracts that make getting rid of people more difficult, so assembly lines don't always get automated at the same rate.
Also, when I had my Saturn ION, the transmission was made in Japan, but somehow there was enough domestic content to have a 1 as the first digit of the VIN.
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