Dodge Dart missed oppurtunity

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Bingo. When you are at the bottom of the reliability ratings from just about every place that tracks these sorts of things people tend to pass you by. And I doubt the Fiat marriage will improve things - their reliability in Europe is not that great either.


Do you or anyone you know have any experience with recent Fiat offerings, or are you basing your opinion on what you read in magazines, internet or Fiats that were sold in US long, long time ago?


My Fiats weren't that bad.

Okay, one had no reverse, and the other got stuck in second gear....

but everything worked on the 3rd one. Transmissions aside, they were as reliable as anything else from that era. They just had a short timing belt change interval. (kinda' wish I had kept the '82 X1/9. I would have found a transmission by now)

The Strada was probably the best $400 car I've ever bought. It had tons of little dents but it cleaned up well inside, ran like a top, and was kinda' fun to drive.

 

[HerrStig]

When I was in "collich" way back when, a friend bought a brand new FIAT 850 convertable about the size of a golf cart. After a semester of regular 175 mile trips back and forth to NY every weekend he began to have trouble with the door latches. "Tony" tried to adjust them ... it turned out to be the FRAME sagging from the beating the car took on the interstates. My Vdub was doing about the same trip and had about 75K already, but the doors always closed OK. The FIAT 124 variants were solid cars, but a lot more expensive than an 850.

 

[HerrStig]

I think the Dart is an interesting car, but I tend to go for solid drivetrains instead of slick looks and a fancy interior. If the car proves it will hold up to the kind of miles I rack up
I'll give it a good look.

 

[HerrStig]

Overall, we in the US probably take worse care of out vehicles than anywhere else. The Italians love cars, they cost a lot ove there, and they take good care of them. I hope Fiat has figured out how to make a small car for this market which will survive the typical "second or third car 'for the kids' " treatment a lot of them will get here. They're not VW Bugs.

 

[HerrStig]

Overall, we in the US probably take worse care of out vehicles than anywhere else. The Italians love cars, they cost a lot ove there, and they take good care of them. I hope Fiat has figured out how to make a small car for this market which will survive the typical "second or third car 'for the kids' " treatment a lot of them will get here. They're not VW Bugs.

 

[HerrStig]

Overall, we in the US probably take worse care of out vehicles than anywhere else. The Italians love cars, they cost a lot ove there, and they take good care of them. I hope Fiat has figured out how to make a small car for this market which will survive the typical "second or third car 'for the kids' " treatment a lot of them will get here. They're not VW Bugs.

 

[badtlc]

Is the high MPG option for the dart a DI engine? I could never seem to find that information when considering it a few months back.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Pentastar V6 issues are LESS THAN ONE PERCENT! That hardly counts as an "issue". Failure rates that low would be considered good for many makes, but too many people here believe in rag ratings and would never imagine that the overwhelming majority of the owners of ANY new car are happy with it.


There shouldn't be that many issues on a critical part of the engine. Even Chrysler was caught off guard as they were/are in parts shortages for the heads and parts. All the reports I've seen say the initial estimate is just that. How many will show up with failures down the road?

Point is a new engine you bet your company on should not be generating headlines for major engine defects. Ford didn't with the EB 3.5, and 5.0, and to a limited extent the EB 4 bangers. GM won't with their new pickup engines. Yet Chrysler gets a free pass, sorry this is the same junk from Chrysler that they have always pulled.

It is telling that Chrysler is the only automaker that has consistently gone elsewhere for major designs. From VW for Omni engines to Mitsubishi and Hyundai for engines, and Hyundai for transmissions. Makes you wonder exactly what they can engineer, if anything. Even the Hemi is an aincient design that is not exclusive to Chrysler.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Do you or anyone you know have any experience with recent Fiat offerings, or are you basing your opinion on what you read in magazines, internet or Fiats that were sold in US long, long time ago?


Nope, no experience with Fiat here. Googling Fiat Europe reliability gives some interesting information. As does the initial reports of the 500's quality here. Not exactly confidence inspiring. Time will tell.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Imagine whatever you want, the new Egoboosters are far from defect free. We have had 3 in our family, and they have their fair share of issues. We have a Lincoln that is showing signs of trans issues at 36000 miles!

The 5.0's have their problems, too. The fact that they don't generate as much publicity seems lost on some folks, can anyone else smell what's cookin'?

I don't expect a Ford fan to be objective, but do you realize that a failure rate of less than one percent is actually considered good? I know that's no consolation to the owners of the problem children, but Chrysler is far from "getting a pass".

Actually they're getting crucified.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Nope, no experience with Fiat here. Googling Fiat Europe reliability gives some interesting information. As does the initial reports of the 500's quality here. Not exactly confidence inspiring. Time will tell.


You've just proven that you won't listen to rational arguments and will say whatever you want to support you point of view. Great, believe whatever you want to believe, but you will get called out on your irrational beliefs.

 

[addyguy]

I feel bad the Darts not doing well. IMO, it's the best-looking compact sedan out there, and I tend not to be a fan of chryco products.

Were I in the market for a car like this, it would be my first choice...but I'm just not.

 

[morepwr]

The only Dart I have seen is a guy who works for Dodge in my neighborhood so he always gets new cars to drive. I dont think there is anything all that special about it even though the ads on TV want you to think its not like any other standard issue econobox being made.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I like the look of this more.

Maybe Chrysler will simply offer the car in its original Giulietta hatchaback form and style and sell the model as an Alfa Romeo at Chrysler dealers. The logical step that should be taken is to add Alfa to the line up at current Chrysler stores since FIAT only has the 500 on offer currently.

I would prefer the hatch version for sure.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I like the look of this more.

Maybe Chrysler will simply offer the car in its original Giulietta hatchaback form and style and sell the model as an Alfa Romeo at Chrysler dealers. The logical step that should be taken is to add Alfa to the line up at current Chrysler stores since FIAT only has the 500 on offer currently.

I would prefer the hatch version for sure.

Sign me up for one.

Unfortunately, some automotive big-wigs think that ugly americans are too crass, lazy, fat and stupid to appreciate a high content hatchback.

they might be right.

We're not buying the 5-series GT. We'll buy the [heck] out of X5s

Nobody's buying the A3

Mazda6es probably rate 20:3:1 - sedans:hatchbacks:wagons in the previous generation and the current gen has no wagons or 5-doors.

Did anyone but me ever want a 318ti?

But some of us would really like to see the Cruze or Dart 5-door. Keep the handling. Don't "malibu-ize" it like VWoA did with the Westmoreland made Rabbits. let me shift it for myself.

Until then, I'll keep my sharp handling practical 5-door Mazda and my quick accelerating Chrysler wagon.

 

[javacontour]

I dunno about that. The three weeks I spent in Italy this summer, I saw a fair number of beaten upon cars, both city and country.

So I think you have folks who are enthusiasts in both countries. But you also have folks to whom cars are just appliances and as long as it works, it's good enough in both places.

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Overall, we in the US probably take worse care of out vehicles than anywhere else. The Italians love cars, they cost a lot ove there, and they take good care of them. I hope Fiat has figured out how to make a small car for this market which will survive the typical "second or third car 'for the kids' " treatment a lot of them will get here. They're not VW Bugs.

 

[440Magnum]

The mere fact that its a domestic 4-door with a 6-speed stick available makes it pretty darn appealing in my eyes. If it just wasn't FWD- which is why I said I'm not even looking until the AWD version is out. Whether its called an 'R/T' or a 'GT' doesn't matter to me. But just for trivia's sake, 'GT' is true to the history of the Dart- the R/T badge was exclusive to the B-body cars. But the Dart GT with a potent 340 would often shame the bigger/heavier R/Ts with big-blocks and poorer handling.

 

[Hermann]

Chiming in again as I saw my first new Dart last evening after work. It is a nice looking car from the rear, Kinda small looking. It was a uplevel model in black. The front end is kinda blah, as are a lot of new cars, because of safety regs. Pretty soon all cars will look the same, just like Nascar's new cars. If the name was not on the front I could not tell them apart.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
There shouldn't be that many issues on a critical part of the engine. Even Chrysler was caught off guard as they were/are in parts shortages for the heads and parts. All the reports I've seen say the initial estimate is just that. How many will show up with failures down the road?

Point is a new engine you bet your company on should not be generating headlines for major engine defects. Ford didn't with the EB 3.5, and 5.0, and to a limited extent the EB 4 bangers. GM won't with their new pickup engines. Yet Chrysler gets a free pass, sorry this is the same junk from Chrysler that they have always pulled.

It is telling that Chrysler is the only automaker that has consistently gone elsewhere for major designs. From VW for Omni engines to Mitsubishi and Hyundai for engines, and Hyundai for transmissions. Makes you wonder exactly what they can engineer, if anything. Even the Hemi is an aincient design that is not exclusive to Chrysler.


Such a hater.
Every company has made engines with issues. Chrysler typically makes really good engines, and a lot of their cars have problems elsewhere, not the engine. The 2 Chrysler products I owned both had bomb proof engines that took mountains of abuse (I was young once)

GM worn out cams, 305 V8, maybe more
Honda V6 VCM issues
Toyota sludge engines
VW premature cam follower wear
Nissan, Saturn piston ring flaws
Ford 5.4 spark plug issues

Just naming ones off the top of my head

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
It will be interesting to see if the long term Ram sales will keep up or if people will realize they are not up to par and mainly "flash only" trucks.


I have debated responding to your general Chrysler bashing and held off as long as I could. This comment above about the Ram trucks being "flash" only though is so absurd it is not even funny.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Yeah, I wish he could have seen my FIL's 3500 Ram towing a 35 foot beavertail trailer with two cars in it!

Flash indeed.