My LS400 OCI is 6-7k/6mos with dino and 12-14k/12mos with syn. If I bring oil+filter to have it change at my local garage it will cost me $20($10x2) labor, 11 quarts (5.5x2) and 2 filters for dino, for synthetic the cost is $10 labor, 5.5 quarts and 1 filter. The total cost for synthetic is actually less than dino if you do twice as long OCI's, also it costs you 1/2 time to drive to have oil changes.
Do you feel a synthetic oil has let you down?
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I've been less-than-thrilled with some UOAs and switched to other oils, but it's not like I put something in and it grenaded a day later.
Curently I have 5 qt of syntec 5w30 , not my usual t6, but all is well , 7kmiles in 5 weeks, all is well,,not using oil, now have 265k on engine. I dont have sludge, every 5th oil change im adding a half qt of MMO at oil change time. Oils I have used in the past, Napa synthetic, M1 , t6, syntec, still got 15-16 miles per gal no matter what oil I use,,amazing a one ton van is not great on mpg,,lol
My full synthetic disappointments were only that there was no perceptible difference from dino.
And some people did indeed develop leaks here and there.
For people who rack up the miles fast, they sure are great for longer OCIs.
And some people did indeed develop leaks here and there.
For people who rack up the miles fast, they sure are great for longer OCIs.
I got a 6qt case of Mobil 1 once for doing some electrical work for my Uncle. While it worked just great, it just isnt worth the extra cost in my opinion, since I change oil every 4000 miles or so.
Enjoy your synthetics everyone!!!
Enjoy your synthetics everyone!!!
I wouldn't say I've had a synthetic oil let me down, but M1 5w/30 did the worst IMO of the different synthetics I've run in the Frontier.
I ran two M1 5w/30 OC's in the Frontier, and by 5000-5500 miles, the oil had sheared to the point the oil pressure at idle had gone from 15psi to 8, and had reduced(~25%) oil pressure at all RPMs. The engine sounded noisier, too, than with other oils.
Syntec, M1 0w/40, and MaxLife full synth 5w/30 all made it to 6k miles without significant oil pressure dropoff. I have 5500 on current PP fill.
I ran two M1 5w/30 OC's in the Frontier, and by 5000-5500 miles, the oil had sheared to the point the oil pressure at idle had gone from 15psi to 8, and had reduced(~25%) oil pressure at all RPMs. The engine sounded noisier, too, than with other oils.
Syntec, M1 0w/40, and MaxLife full synth 5w/30 all made it to 6k miles without significant oil pressure dropoff. I have 5500 on current PP fill.
Originally Posted By: Pete591
Do you feel a synthetic oil has let you down?
Just wondering if you tried a synthetic oil and did not feel you were able to get your money's worth?
Synthetic oil has never let me down. I've done a couple 8K intervals and felt it was a bit of waste hucking good oil, but that was by choice so there was nothing emotionally negative about it. I felt (there's that word again) good about what I was doing, so not a let down at all. Trying another oil is always fun!
I think some people tend to get overly excited about the benefits, or rather the perceived benefits of synthetic motor oil and expect instant gratification. I feel it's my responsibility to temper the excitement, keep it realistic. Get the details, fit the application. Don't promise too much.
What's the intent of the question? Is this another one of those threads where we are supposed to conclude one type of oil base is better? Gotta get to the details - better for what? Let you down? Gotta get the details.
On a humorous note are the BITOGers who run a crankcase of synthetic for the first time at 183,000 miles, do a single UOA at 5K and conclude the oil is no good for the application. Because the Fe is 9 ppm! Let down? The humor never stops!
Do you feel a synthetic oil has let you down?
Just wondering if you tried a synthetic oil and did not feel you were able to get your money's worth?
Synthetic oil has never let me down. I've done a couple 8K intervals and felt it was a bit of waste hucking good oil, but that was by choice so there was nothing emotionally negative about it. I felt (there's that word again) good about what I was doing, so not a let down at all. Trying another oil is always fun!
I think some people tend to get overly excited about the benefits, or rather the perceived benefits of synthetic motor oil and expect instant gratification. I feel it's my responsibility to temper the excitement, keep it realistic. Get the details, fit the application. Don't promise too much.
What's the intent of the question? Is this another one of those threads where we are supposed to conclude one type of oil base is better? Gotta get to the details - better for what? Let you down? Gotta get the details.
On a humorous note are the BITOGers who run a crankcase of synthetic for the first time at 183,000 miles, do a single UOA at 5K and conclude the oil is no good for the application. Because the Fe is 9 ppm! Let down? The humor never stops!
I think if an oil "let's you down", you need to reevaluate your expectations a little... That said, given the marketing around them I guess it's understandable.
I switched from MC synblend to a GIII synthetic only because it was cheaper. That said, I've liked having the flexibility to extend the OCI, since "oil changing time" doesn't always come at the right time. I wouldn't have been too excited to run the MC out to 8.5-9K based on a few of the posted UOA's. I didn't worry at all with the PP, so it was "worth it" to me, based on that alone.
For most driving conditions, environments and vehicles, the only advantage is the ability to extend the drain interval. That's it. If you're expecting more, it's not surprising the feel let down, IMHO.
I switched from MC synblend to a GIII synthetic only because it was cheaper. That said, I've liked having the flexibility to extend the OCI, since "oil changing time" doesn't always come at the right time. I wouldn't have been too excited to run the MC out to 8.5-9K based on a few of the posted UOA's. I didn't worry at all with the PP, so it was "worth it" to me, based on that alone.
For most driving conditions, environments and vehicles, the only advantage is the ability to extend the drain interval. That's it. If you're expecting more, it's not surprising the feel let down, IMHO.
Hi,
an interesting question no doubt!
Except where an engine Manufacturer calls for a synthetic lubricant there are very few benefits from using one. That is of course over the lubricants Approved by the Manufacturer
The benefits in normal use (racing excepted) may be in;
being able to go for a longer OCI (care is needed in doing or asuming this)
being able to maintain viscosity at the intended level (engine Manufacturer determines this)
having a "perceived" saftey margin in an engine crisis (sudden coolant loss etc)
And etc
As an ex Senior Director at MB with lubricant supply/evaluation responsibilities said to me last year at Unterturkheim (engine factory since 1896 or so) "...we see no benefit in using exotic oils over and above those Approved by us..."
Personally I have used synthetic lubricants from Castrol, Shell, Mobil-Delvac and Caltex (ex employer) since the 1970s in engines and much sooner than that in driveline componentry - with very cost effective results. I have always used UOAs to get the maximum life (or near to) out of these more expensive lubricants
In heavy high speed diesels in mid/large Fleet use their benefits may be few - due to the risk of unintended (or intended) contamination or disruruption to Servicing routines and the likes. In small Fleets the benefits of extended UOAs must be constantly evaluated to get the cost/benefit ratio right!
I think the benefits are really shown in drive line use at very extended use - in my case 1m kms OCIs
So synthetic lubricants have never let me down - I had high expectations and with common sense and realism they met them
I think the MB Director's comments mirror my own experiences over nearly 50 years or so
an interesting question no doubt!
Except where an engine Manufacturer calls for a synthetic lubricant there are very few benefits from using one. That is of course over the lubricants Approved by the Manufacturer
The benefits in normal use (racing excepted) may be in;
being able to go for a longer OCI (care is needed in doing or asuming this)
being able to maintain viscosity at the intended level (engine Manufacturer determines this)
having a "perceived" saftey margin in an engine crisis (sudden coolant loss etc)
And etc
As an ex Senior Director at MB with lubricant supply/evaluation responsibilities said to me last year at Unterturkheim (engine factory since 1896 or so) "...we see no benefit in using exotic oils over and above those Approved by us..."
Personally I have used synthetic lubricants from Castrol, Shell, Mobil-Delvac and Caltex (ex employer) since the 1970s in engines and much sooner than that in driveline componentry - with very cost effective results. I have always used UOAs to get the maximum life (or near to) out of these more expensive lubricants
In heavy high speed diesels in mid/large Fleet use their benefits may be few - due to the risk of unintended (or intended) contamination or disruruption to Servicing routines and the likes. In small Fleets the benefits of extended UOAs must be constantly evaluated to get the cost/benefit ratio right!
I think the benefits are really shown in drive line use at very extended use - in my case 1m kms OCIs
So synthetic lubricants have never let me down - I had high expectations and with common sense and realism they met them
I think the MB Director's comments mirror my own experiences over nearly 50 years or so
I once asked synthetic oil to keep an eye on my house while I was away on a business trip. I came home a day early and that [censored] synthetic oil was wearing my pajamas, was in bed with my wife, ate my food, kicked my dog and did not even mow the [censored] lawn. I thought we were bros. That synthetic oil really let me down. [censored] you synthetic oil, [censored] you.
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Approximately 80+ percent of the synthetic oils on the market now are designed to run manufacturer's suggested oil drain intervals.
That leaves a few that recommended extended drain intervals.
Off hand, I can name AMSOIL and Mobil 1 Extended Drain.
Does that mean that the others can't be extended? Of course not, but blindly extending the drain interval would probably not be the smartest move.
The auto manufacturer's recommend 5,000, 7500, or even longer drain intervals. The Europeans have long recommended much longer drain intervals, using premium synthetics. The Quick Lubes keep chanting the "3,000 mile" recommendation, which might have something to do with increasing shop traffic.
If you are convinced that non-synthetic is "just as good", be happy and charge ahead. Obviously, the lube engineers who work with the manufacturer's and push them to recommend only synthetics are all on the take. And, you might be able to save several hundred dollars over the lifetime of your $15,000 to $85,000--- or not.
That leaves a few that recommended extended drain intervals.
Off hand, I can name AMSOIL and Mobil 1 Extended Drain.
Does that mean that the others can't be extended? Of course not, but blindly extending the drain interval would probably not be the smartest move.
The auto manufacturer's recommend 5,000, 7500, or even longer drain intervals. The Europeans have long recommended much longer drain intervals, using premium synthetics. The Quick Lubes keep chanting the "3,000 mile" recommendation, which might have something to do with increasing shop traffic.
If you are convinced that non-synthetic is "just as good", be happy and charge ahead. Obviously, the lube engineers who work with the manufacturer's and push them to recommend only synthetics are all on the take. And, you might be able to save several hundred dollars over the lifetime of your $15,000 to $85,000--- or not.
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Any car with any oil will sludge if the PCV valve stops working. Did you replace yours?
From what I know about 2.2 Ecotec it does not have a PCV valve. Maybe it has some kind of built-in circulation system...
I also don't like the fact that engine started to consume oil that early on. If M1 was supposedly was protecting engine better and reducing wear rates then I would hope to get at least to 100k without oil consumption between oil changes.
Any car with any oil will sludge if the PCV valve stops working. Did you replace yours?
From what I know about 2.2 Ecotec it does not have a PCV valve. Maybe it has some kind of built-in circulation system...
I also don't like the fact that engine started to consume oil that early on. If M1 was supposedly was protecting engine better and reducing wear rates then I would hope to get at least to 100k without oil consumption between oil changes.
Hi,
sicko - Whilst oil may be cheap in NA it is not in much of the rest of the World!
It is typical to pay around $A70 to $A90 for five litres of a "named" synthetic lubricant here in OZ. Single litres are similarly priced to much of Europe at around $A18-$A25
Oil should be conserved in every way possible and not simply wasted on unneccessary OCs IMO
sicko - Whilst oil may be cheap in NA it is not in much of the rest of the World!
It is typical to pay around $A70 to $A90 for five litres of a "named" synthetic lubricant here in OZ. Single litres are similarly priced to much of Europe at around $A18-$A25
Oil should be conserved in every way possible and not simply wasted on unneccessary OCs IMO
I think you're only going to be let down if you go in with unrealistic expectations, or simply substitute a syn for the same application dino was used for without issues.
For the low difference in price between syn and dino today, I have settled on syn as an every winter application. In sub-zero temps its ability to crank easier and warm faster are worth the little extra to me; add into that I'll also run it a bit longer and expect it to hold up better in more severe winter service.
In summer I will move back and forth from syn to dino as the only benefit I'm expecting from the syn is a longer OCI. I choose dino or syn based on anticipated OCI and cost difference over that OCI. Whichever works out to be cheaper is the oil bought for the other 3 season usage.
While syn has certainly dropped in price (today I saw Mobil 1 EP for $25 regular price at CT, which is excellent here), dino has also closed the performance gap and I doubt there are many 'pure dino' oils out there any more that don't contain at least a little a little GP-III stock to beef them up; maybe not enough to get tagged as a 'blend', but regardless of what's on the label the two are closer than ever.
-Spyder
For the low difference in price between syn and dino today, I have settled on syn as an every winter application. In sub-zero temps its ability to crank easier and warm faster are worth the little extra to me; add into that I'll also run it a bit longer and expect it to hold up better in more severe winter service.
In summer I will move back and forth from syn to dino as the only benefit I'm expecting from the syn is a longer OCI. I choose dino or syn based on anticipated OCI and cost difference over that OCI. Whichever works out to be cheaper is the oil bought for the other 3 season usage.
While syn has certainly dropped in price (today I saw Mobil 1 EP for $25 regular price at CT, which is excellent here), dino has also closed the performance gap and I doubt there are many 'pure dino' oils out there any more that don't contain at least a little a little GP-III stock to beef them up; maybe not enough to get tagged as a 'blend', but regardless of what's on the label the two are closer than ever.
-Spyder
Do transmission fluids count? I bought a case of Redline MTL to use in my syncronized 5 speed transaxle. I thought since it was "redline" and designed for use in syncronized manual transmissions, it would be great stuff to use. I experienced some of the worst shifting I have ever had in the 4 manual trans cars I have owned. I still have 9 of the 12 quarts sitting in my shed for the last 2-3 years now. I went back to C+ATF
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I think it's saved two of my engines. One was severely overheated, but the engine never seized. The other a got a damaged oil pan and was able to get to a safe location with marginal oil pressure. Neither engine showed signs of damaage.
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