Do you agree with this guy?

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
I once had a scary issue with my Trabant. One day the throttle return spring broke and the engine went full throttle. I just cut the ignition off and coasted to a breakdown spot and fixed the broken spring and drove home.

Now if I was driving a more modern car with power brakes and power steering if the car died I would have been in trouble.


Power steering and power brakes doesn't mean you have no mechanical link to those systems. You can stop a runaway car with power steering and power brakes if you do the right thing (as you did: cut the ignition, shift to neutral, apply the brake, and steer off the road). Sure, there will be more effort required compared to normal.

In recent memory, Toyota owners who stacked floor mats on top of each other and stuck them in the gas pedals (causing a runaway condition) would panic and not know what to do. In some high profile incidents (both genuine and falsified), they would call 911 from their cell phones while their vehicle was careening down the highway. In All cases, shifting to neutral (which is a mechanical linkage, even in Toyotas) and firmly applying the brake would have solved the problem. In any case, power brakes/steering or not, panic from the driver in a runaway situation can cause unfortunate results.

In other words: you successfully stopped your runaway car not because it did or didn't have power systems, but because you didn't panic and you handled the situation correctly.

The problem with the GM ignition switches is they would turn off on their own (due to insufficient resistance in the cylinder, exacerbated by people hanging extra key robs and rabbits' feet and all sorts of junk on their key rings). Because the ignition was off, it disabled the airbag system. If the vehicle did crash in that situation, the airbags would not deploy, contributing to bodily injury and/or death.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
I've been considering "drinking the coolade" and getting one of those stereos with a flip out screen for my 98 Chevy van that has GPS and backup camera because we use this van allot on vacation and having a GPS screen is probably safer than trying to use my phone.

Also so I can play MP3s off SD or USB cards.


I gave in and put in Pioneer stereo in my old Camry. Very much like it, almost wish I had gone double-DIN and had perhaps a display showing freq response etc (you know, the bars showing what freq is at what volume, a live FFT of the music). Got BT, which was what I was mostly after; but I moved most of my (admittedly small) music collection onto a thumbdrive, and it's simply vastly easier to navigate the one-line of text to find music--as opposed to opening up a sleeve of discs. It and a Garmin round out electronic goodies in my car. I think I like the gps up high on the dash, rather than low in the dash, although to be fair I've never driven a car with factory nav before.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
I once had a scary issue with my Trabant.

questions:
-where did you get that? especially in US.....
-i thought the outer shell was something similar to painted cardboard/sometype of fiber...

P.S. i rode in one of those as a kid.... i think they where just a bit bigger then your Fiat

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

In recent memory, Toyota owners who stacked floor mats on top of each other and stuck them in the gas pedals (causing a runaway condition) would panic and not know what to do. In some high profile incidents (both genuine and falsified), they would call 911 from their cell phones while their vehicle was careening down the highway. In All cases, shifting to neutral (which is a mechanical linkage, even in Toyotas) and firmly applying the brake would have solved the problem. In any case, power brakes/steering or not, panic from the driver in a runaway situation can cause unfortunate results.


Yeh, I remember that.

It attracted my attention when one of the dead panicky drivers was reportedly an off-duty California Highway Patrolman.

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=82442&hilit=lexus

Didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now.

 

[TurboFiat124]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
I once had a scary issue with my Trabant.

questions:
-where did you get that? especially in US.....
-i thought the outer shell was something similar to painted cardboard/sometype of fiber...

P.S. i rode in one of those as a kid.... i think they where just a bit bigger then your Fiat


I had it shipped over from Hungary. I wanted one ever since I saw people fleeing East Germany in them through neighboring Eastern Bloc countries on CNN back in 1989. But like the East Germans I had to wait several years before I could own one. Once a car becomes 30 years old, it becomes exempt from safety and pollution laws and can be imported without issues.

There are about 250 Trabants in the US registry. I couldn't make it this year but every year the International Spy museum puts on a show called the Parade of Trabants outside their museum around November the 9th. Usually around 20 cars.

The shell is made of material called Duroplast which is a cotton and wool material. It looks like what comes out of dryer lint trap! Then they would sprinkle this orange powder on it and heat/press it into panels. The body shell was steel. I think there were several reasons behind this design. It saved on metal. East Germany did not have a welfare system so they created jobs for people instead of paying people to see on their butts like the United States does. Sounds like a great idea but it failed for some reason....

Here is a video taken after 1989 about 2 years before the car was discontinued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emoF0EFxjjA

 

[TurboFiat124]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

In recent memory, Toyota owners who stacked floor mats on top of each other and stuck them in the gas pedals (causing a runaway condition) would panic and not know what to do. In some high profile incidents (both genuine and falsified), they would call 911 from their cell phones while their vehicle was careening down the highway. In All cases, shifting to neutral (which is a mechanical linkage, even in Toyotas) and firmly applying the brake would have solved the problem. In any case, power brakes/steering or not, panic from the driver in a runaway situation can cause unfortunate results.


Yeh, I remember that.

It attracted my attention when one of the dead panicky drivers was reportedly an off-duty California Highway Patrolman.

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=82442&hilit=lexus

Didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now.


I realize not everybody like's driving stick shifts like me but it seems every time there is some incident with a runaway vehicle it always involves automatics for some reason. Some would say it happens with elderly people who are too old to drive but seems like age is not always a factor.

Back in the 1980s when Audi was having issues with their cars going full throttle for no apparent reason, it only affected their automatics. Not once did one of their 5 speed models runaway on it's own. So it was like the car was shifting itself into drive and the accelerator was going to the floor on it's own? Weird?

Do you think perhaps people who have never driven a stick shift don't know what it's like to have control over a vehicle? With an automatic you just put it in drive and stomp the accelerator to the floor. With a stick shift you have to work the clutch and accelerator in sync. If you don't work both correctly, the car will either stall out, buck and carry on or bark the tires.

I will say if I am in some tourist trap area with stop and go traffic, I'd rather be driving my automatic van but under normal driving, I like my stick shifts. Maybe when I am 80 years old (if I live that long) I'll have a different opinion.

This incident happened last February at a local Wal-Mart.

http://wjhl.com/2016/02/23/truck-crashes-into-kingsport-walmart-4-injured/

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'll never have another car without heated seats. Heated steering wheels are also lovely.

I'll never have another car without ventilated seats. (my wife doesn't mind not having them)

I like my automatic 4-zone climate control. I can have cool air, (which I like year round) my wife can have no air, (her preference) and my kid can have warm air.

I like my air suspension.

I like my automatic door locks and windows.

I like my power trunk.

I like my cruise control and 6 speed automatic transmission.

If YOU don't like progress, it is not up to the rest of the world to carry your burden. Buy an old car or a base-model Mitsubishi.

Modern controls are only distracting if you allow yourself to be distracted by them.


Ventilated seats would be nice for my job as a truck driver. The seat makes the difference between whether you're happy or miserable.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

In recent memory, Toyota owners who stacked floor mats on top of each other and stuck them in the gas pedals (causing a runaway condition) would panic and not know what to do. In some high profile incidents (both genuine and falsified), they would call 911 from their cell phones while their vehicle was careening down the highway. In All cases, shifting to neutral (which is a mechanical linkage, even in Toyotas) and firmly applying the brake would have solved the problem. In any case, power brakes/steering or not, panic from the driver in a runaway situation can cause unfortunate results.


Yeh, I remember that.

It attracted my attention when one of the dead panicky drivers was reportedly an off-duty California Highway Patrolman.

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=82442&hilit=lexus

Didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now.


I realize not everybody like's driving stick shifts like me but it seems every time there is some incident with a runaway vehicle it always involves automatics for some reason. Some would say it happens with elderly people who are too old to drive but seems like age is not always a factor.

Back in the 1980s when Audi was having issues with their cars going full throttle for no apparent reason, it only affected their automatics. Not once did one of their 5 speed models runaway on it's own. So it was like the car was shifting itself into drive and the accelerator was going to the floor on it's own? Weird?

Do you think perhaps people who have never driven a stick shift don't know what it's like to have control over a vehicle? With an automatic you just put it in drive and stomp the accelerator to the floor. With a stick shift you have to work the clutch and accelerator in sync. If you don't work both correctly, the car will either stall out, buck and carry on or bark the tires.

I will say if I am in some tourist trap area with stop and go traffic, I'd rather be driving my automatic van but under normal driving, I like my stick shifts. Maybe when I am 80 years old (if I live that long) I'll have a different opinion.

This incident happened last February at a local Wal-Mart.

http://wjhl.com/2016/02/23/truck-crashes-into-kingsport-walmart-4-injured/



Audi had no issues. It was as much of a scam as the Dateline scam where they put rocket motors into GM trucks to make the tanks explode.

They were only able to duplicate the Audi "problem" by pressurizing the transmission case with compressed air.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03...ration-debacle/

 

[Hokiefyd]

Both the Audi and the Toyota story lines were pretty over-sensationalized. There really wasn't much of a story in either case.

Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
Do you think perhaps people who have never driven a stick shift don't know what it's like to have control over a vehicle?


It's likely that someone who has not learned to drive a manual transmission doesn't have the same feel for how all of the systems of an automobile interact with each other. In any case of a run-away vehicle, shifting the vehicle to neutral, regardless of transmission type, will physically disconnect the engine from the drivetrain. I appreciate that it's a moment of panic for drivers, and it probably is hard to snap out of that panic to gain control over the situation. I couldn't judge how other drivers handled it because I've, thankfully, not had that happen to me. All I can do is remind myself what the appropriate response is and hope that I fall back to that plan if something like that ever did happen.

The one exception I can think of, and it's directly related to this thread, is Dodge's "electronic shifter" that they've used in some recent models. I once rented a Chrysler 300. With that shifter type, there is no mechanical connection with the transmission, so it is using electronics to actuate a solenoid to move the shifter on the transmission. Could something go awry where you couldn't physically shift it? I suppose so. It's probably relevant that Jeep recalled a bunch of Grand Cherokees over a similar issue -- models with the electronic shifter were not going into Park. I think it was user error -- they weren't getting the shifter all the way up into Park. I think they redesigned that system some in response to that problem.

Short anecdote -- sort of related. I almost ran my grandfather over with his tractor when I was but a young lad. It was a Ford 8N with manual brakes. Those brakes weren't near strong enough to stop the tractor without also clutching it out. We were moving rock with the scoop on the back and I got quick in my action and applied the brakes and was already turned around to dump the scoop -- I never even thought about the clutch. The tractor, of course, didn't stop and I started to panic -- trying to stand on the brakes! I can still hear my dad yell, 'CLUTCH!'. I used the clutch and got it stopped, but nearly ran someone over. I was only 10 or so at the time, and I'd like to think that I'm much more experienced now, but even though I KNEW that I had to use the clutch to stop the tractor, my mind was elsewhere and it took an outside influence to get me back to where I needed to be.

 

[DBMaster]

When I watched that video I saw another one of his queue up regarding getting rid of his 2014 Mazda3. He talked about why he got rid of the cargo area cover. It has a very sharp edge on it and it ends up right where you'll hit your forehead when loading or unloading. I scratched my forehead on the one in my 2012. So, this is a tip for anyone who has one of these - yes, I know it's off-topic. I had some black rubber windshield washer tubing in my garage so I slit a length of it that was long enough to span the distance between the attachment points of the cords that connect the cover to the hatch. After pressing the tubing onto the edge of the hatch cover it looked like it came that way from the factory and the sharp edge was gone. The edge really IS sharp.

 

[TurboFiat124]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp


Audi had no issues. It was as much of a scam as the Dateline scam where they put rocket motors into GM trucks to make the tanks explode.

They were only able to duplicate the Audi "problem" by pressurizing the transmission case with compressed air.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03...ration-debacle/


This sounds about like the Consumer Reports article on the Suzuki Samurai rollovers. Where the driver would intentional jerk the steering wheel to make the vehicle rollover. Anybody with any common sense should know top heavy vehicles with a short wheel base would be prone to this. After all the Jeep CJ5 was already known for this.

That's one reason Consumer Reports lost all credibility with me. Everytime I see their magazine in the checkout lane, the Suzuki incident comes to mind and I think to myself, what products are they blowing out of proportion in their magazine this time.

When I first starting driving, dad gave me a few tips.

1) Always use your right foot to brake and accelerate. Never use your left foot to brake, only to operate the clutch.
2) Never rest your foot on the clutch pedal or your hand on the gear shifter.
3) Never ride brakes going down mountains. Always use the transmission as an engine brake even if an automatic.
4) Never fill your tank up while the gas station's tanks are being refueled because it stirs up sediment and may clog the fuel filter.

I remember when he used to pull a 30 foot camper with his 76 Chevy pickup 454 big block. We would have to cross several mountains to get the beach and before I-26 was completed would have to take this 2 lane highway (old Route 23) up and down the mountain to get to Asheville, NC then cross more mountains but at least the interstate before getting to South Carolina. He would always shift into L2 going down mountains and just tap the brakes for only a few seconds to reduce his speed.

Later in life I found it rather amusing seeing people ride their brakes for over a mile at a time going down some of these mountains having to smell the burnt brake lining coming off their vehicle.

I can put my Subaru in 4th gear and actually have to give the car gas every now and then to maintain speed coming off mountains where I've seen other people ride their brakes the entire time when all they have to do is shift into a lower gear.

My father is not very mechanically inclined but at least he did teach me how to drive a car!

 

[fdcg27]

There are features that are useful and add little complexity, like heated seats.
There are features that are okay but hardly useful, like power seats. In any car I've ever owned or rented, I just play round with the seat to find the most comfortable position and never have need move it again.
I can live without power windows or locks, but they are nice to have and pretty simple. Remote unlock is nice but hardly a necessity. AC is close to being a necessity and certainly adds to comfort on hot days, especially when cruising along on a long trip.
There are also features that do nothing more than impress the proles when car shopping, like touch screens.
Simplicity is a virtue in that it reduces lifecycle costs and typically weight.
Imagine some poor fools trying to restore some of today's cars fifty years on. 3D printing will take care of all of the plastic bits, but the circuit boards and touch screens made up of components as obsolete as vacuum tubes are today will be a challenge.
Nobody is going to be restoring Toyota Camrys or Honda Accords, but pity those trying to bring a 2016 Corvette back to original condition, or any current German or Italian prestige/performance car.

 

[MCompact]

My 2er is considerably more complex than my 1995 ti, but I love them both. They both offer an intriguing driving experience, but they do so in completely different ways. I look forward to driving both of them.