Do syn ATF fluids "clean" like motor oils do?

[Ed_Flecko]

Will some ATF fluids "clean" a transmission the same way the detergents in some motor oils will clean gunk, sludge buildup, etc., from motors? Specifically, I'm referring to Valvoline MaxLife DEX/MERC ATF - http://www.valvoline.com/our-products/automatic-transmission-products/maxlife-dex-merc-atf .

I have a 2004 Toyota Tacoma 2WD truck with appx. 160K miles on and the truck runs perfectly.

I'm planning on changing the automatic transmission fluid since I don't know when it was last done, even though my local Toyota dealer has maintained the truck "by the book".

I was planning on dropping the pan and cleaning it as well as the filter, but my local Toyota dealer (where the truck was purchased) parts department salesman said, "If it was my truck, I'd just drain the fluid and refill with clean fluid". He said my AT doesn't have a filter that you change - it's just a metal screen filter that you clean and re-install. He said if the transmission doesn't leak - why bother changing the gasket, which I kind of agree with. He was also nice enough to mention that he doesn't think I need to buy specific Toyota ATF fluid - he said the Valvoline was fine as long as it meets the Dex III spec (which it does).

I've heard good things about the Valvoline MaxLife DEX/MERC ATF, but I'm just concerned that if my transmission does have any gunk buildup, that the new fluid might cause problems?...or do you think I'm O.K. just to change it and not worry about the potential "cleaning" effect.

Thank you,
Ed

 

[440Magnum]

Auto transmissions don't form sludge like engines do. There's no source of combustion by-products, acidity, and humidity, and the fluid temp is much lower than an engine (unless something is seriously wrong causing a lot of slippage, in which case the whole transmission will die before it has time to form sludge anyway).

The real issue with ATs is clutch dust, which even without a filter ultimately finds its way to a thick film on the bottom of the pan. Its worth a pan-drop (IMO) just to get that stuff out of there.

 

[Stewie]

Go pull the records from the stealership and see if it was ever done.

It may slip if it hasn't been serviced in 160K

 

[901Memphis]

I'd change it with the Maxlife and use the drain plug if it has one, much easier than dropping the pan. There's not going to be much to clean in an AT, you'll get a good idea of the fluid condition by looking at it too. Hopefully it's still red or pink and not black

 

[PandaBear]

IMO if you are going to do it right now might as well change the gasket so it won't leak later and have to redo it again. Unless if the ATF pan is blocked by something that must be disassembled to get to (like subframe, exhaust manifold should be easy enough that I'd just take it off to change oil pan anyways).

 

[Oro_O]

Yes, the filter is a wire mesh and does not require changing. This is a specific reason to do periodic drain/fills at least on Toyota/Lexus models so equipped.

I do agree w/440Magnum - these cars leave a nasty film in the bottom of the pan as it's never trapped in a filter and does not stay in suspension in the fluid. At that mileage I like to clean it out and wipe off the magnets.

The maxlife will work well in that and is available in gallon jugs economically. If you get three, you can do a fluid swap and have a quart or more left to do your PS system, too - don't forget periodic changes on that, also.

 

[147_Grain]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I'd change it with the Maxlife and use the drain plug if it has one, much easier than dropping the pan. There's not going to be much to clean in an AT, you'll get a good idea of the fluid condition by looking at it too. Hopefully it's still red or pink and not black

+1

Keep things simple with multiple drain and fills with Valvoline MaxLife LV ATF.

 

[Pontual]

Do it right or the new detergency could dislodge superior layers of the collected metal flaking on top of the magnets. Drop the pan and clean the magnets really good.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Thank you all.

Once I've refilled with new fluid, do I need to start the motor, keep my foot on the brake and shift through the gears...or do I just fill it and take it for an easy drive...or...???

Ed

 

[Doog]

I do all of my Toyotas via coolerline every 50,000 miles and flush them to get 95% new fluid. I never drop the pan. Their filter is a rock catcher and the sediment in the bottom of the pan is very little on ones I have seen dropped.

The first flush gets most of the debris out. after you refill, shift it through the gears several times and let it idle a few minutes and top up. Then check it hot later after a 30 minute ride.

BTW, I always use Toyota ATF

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted By: Doog
I do all of my Toyotas via coolerline every 50,000 miles and flush them to get 95% new fluid. I never drop the pan. Their filter is a rock catcher and the sediment in the bottom of the pan is very little on ones I have seen dropped.

The first flush gets most of the debris out. after you refill, shift it through the gears several times and let it idle a few minutes and top up. Then check it hot later after a 30 minute ride.

BTW, I always use Toyota ATF


Can you describe how you do it via the coolerline?

Ed

 

[JC1]

Drop the pan and you'll see how much of that gunk is on the bottom of the pan. I had a 98 Sienna and dropped the pan 3 or 4 times.

I also changed the strainer (aka the filter). You can remove the gunk from the outside of the filter but not from the inside of it.


Maxlife works perfectly on that transmission.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: JC1
Drop the pan and you'll see how much of that gunk is on the bottom of the pan. I had a 98 Sienna and dropped the pan 3 or 4 times.


This is what my '99 Sienna looked like in the pan, I don't remember the mileage (155,000?) but it was typical. Hard to see, but there is a layer of clutch material coating the inside of the pan:

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko


Can you describe how you do it via the coolerline?

Ed


This is an example of a cooler line flush on a Toyota:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/104-5t...flush-pics.html

After you refill it, you let it get warm and then check the dipstick after shifting through all gears. If you have no dipstick, you do that and fill it until it runs out the fill hole, then stops. That is how "full" is measured on those.

I did my neighbors 2005 4Runner last year and it had no dipstick, we used a funnel and line to gravity feed it. Let it idle 15 minutes, then shift through gears to fill the lines. Fill until it trickles out. You can also use a hand pump or drill pump, but a funnel and gravity feed (from about, say, door-handle height) works well, too. Much easier than a hand pump IMO.

 

[turtlevette]

I don't understand why atf isn't loaded with cleaners. All the plungers, calibrated orifices, and other sliding parts will cause a transmission to fail if they get just slightly gummed up or filled with suspended particles.

This is a device that must stay clean to function properly.

An engine can perform fine even if all gummed up. You don't like the look but I'm not sure the engine cares until it affects flowability.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I don't understand why atf isn't loaded with cleaners. All the plungers, calibrated orifices, and other sliding parts will cause a transmission to fail if they get just slightly gummed up or filled with suspended particles.

This is a device that must stay clean to function properly.

An engine can perform fine even if all gummed up. You don't like the look but I'm not sure the engine cares until it affects flowability.



A transmission does not have thousands of controlled explosions happening every minute. They don't have to deal with blow-by, coolant intrusion, or dissimilar metal expansion rates.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I don't understand why atf isn't loaded with cleaners. All the plungers, calibrated orifices, and other sliding parts will cause a transmission to fail if they get just slightly gummed up or filled with suspended particles.


Well the only ones I know of are fiber and metallic particles from gears and the clutches, what cleaner is going to help with that?

What kind of "suspended particles" are you thinking of that could be "cleaned"?

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I don't understand why atf isn't loaded with cleaners. All the plungers, calibrated orifices, and other sliding parts will cause a transmission to fail if they get just slightly gummed up or filled with suspended particles.

This is a device that must stay clean to function properly.

An engine can perform fine even if all gummed up. You don't like the look but I'm not sure the engine cares until it affects flowability.



A transmission does not have thousands of controlled explosions happening every minute. They don't have to deal with blow-by, coolant intrusion, or dissimilar metal expansion rates.


That's really poor. I thought you were somewhat of a gearhead and had some understanding. I'm very disappointed.

You have steel plungers in aluminum bores with very exacting and tight clearances. A little bit of interference due to dirt or gum will cause the plunger to hang up making the unit worthless.

I could dump a cup of coolant or water in engine oil and not notice any difference in performance. My trans am at any given time has several ounces of antifreeze in the oil. I Just keep on trucking.

 

[dailydriver]

IF ATFs have very little cleaner/detergent packs in them, then WHY do the 'old school' mechanics suggest dumping a quart into the sump of a push rod engine with stuck/noisy/even collapsed hydraulic lifters??

Is there something else in ATF which could possibly help the above scenario, prompting their suggestion?

 

[CT8]

As usual how do we define syn?