96 Saturn SL2 1.9L DOHC, 2800 miles, four months, mostly 1-2 mi trips. 0 top-up oil added!
If I change the oil, I'll be using this:
Do I need an oil change? Experts? Or should I just top-up and keep going?
Do I need an oil change?
- Thread starter The Critic
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96 Saturn SL2 1.9L DOHC, 2800 miles, four months, mostly 1-2 mi trips. 0 top-up oil added!
If I change the oil, I'll be using this:
Do I need an oil change? Experts? Or should I just top-up and keep going?
i suggest you add some oil.
I would change it due to the amount of mileage (2800) and the short trips of 1 to 2 miles. I would use a 3 month/3000 mile oil change schedule for this type of use. Oil and filters are cheap, engines are not.
westex
westex
Kind of hard to see the level on the stick, but I think it's about midway between the marks - backing DINO NO's statement.
The oil appears relatively clean. What does the manual say for "severe" conditions? As for my particular vehicle, 5k/6mo is what it says in such conditions (volvo). That recommendation comes from back in '94, so oil quality has improved though I don't know how such improvements fair exactly with that particualr engine design, so I may just as well stay with such recommendation(s). There's always UOA however, watching TBN/TAN and oxidation, nitration, Si, particle counts, etc...to see just how far I can take it.
It might be of some benefit to use the car for a trip of 15+ miles every now and then to help reduce the likihood of fuel and condensation developement in the oil, which wears on the oil's TBN levels as it increases the potential for acid formation, and the fuel leads to thinning of the oil viscosity. But without oil analysis, this is all speculation as for what's going on in your particular case.
Take care.
The oil appears relatively clean. What does the manual say for "severe" conditions? As for my particular vehicle, 5k/6mo is what it says in such conditions (volvo). That recommendation comes from back in '94, so oil quality has improved though I don't know how such improvements fair exactly with that particualr engine design, so I may just as well stay with such recommendation(s). There's always UOA however, watching TBN/TAN and oxidation, nitration, Si, particle counts, etc...to see just how far I can take it.
It might be of some benefit to use the car for a trip of 15+ miles every now and then to help reduce the likihood of fuel and condensation developement in the oil, which wears on the oil's TBN levels as it increases the potential for acid formation, and the fuel leads to thinning of the oil viscosity. But without oil analysis, this is all speculation as for what's going on in your particular case.
Take care.
I too would change the oil!
Roughly 1/2 quart low & relatively clean oil for 2800 miles in a Saturn indicates to me this car has been well taken care of. Since it is a Saturn, I would change the oil.
My SL2 DOHC uses about a quart in 1200 miles. The car has 105,000 miles on it. It has had 3000 OIC's since we bought it with 70K on it. I've done 2 complete ARX treatments on it. No difference in oil useage.
I wish my oil would stay as clean as yours after 2800 miles..
My SL2 DOHC uses about a quart in 1200 miles. The car has 105,000 miles on it. It has had 3000 OIC's since we bought it with 70K on it. I've done 2 complete ARX treatments on it. No difference in oil useage.
I wish my oil would stay as clean as yours after 2800 miles..
I also wish my oil would be that clean at 2800 miles - not a chance w/short trip driving in a Canadian winter!
I would top it off and run it to 5K miles...I can't believe the advice of the people here, changing such clean oil at 2.8k miles....that IS a waste!
I would top it off and run it to 5K miles...I can't believe the advice of the people here, changing such clean oil at 2.8k miles....that IS a waste!
I run a Toyota Celica, 88, GT-S, with a K&N cone air filter, Mobil 1 5W30 from rebuild, and use the turbo engine filters which are bigger, and a giant magnet on the filter to help catch debris.
I change my oil every 10,000kms: I worked my way up to that from 5, then 7.5, and now 10k using oil analysis. The problem I ran into was water and gasoline contamination. Seems my driving style leaves the car running rich just a bit, and quite often I don't drive it at all on weekends, so I probably get a bit of condensation.
At any rate, after 10,000km, the oil is still perfect. The wear metals are all very acceptable, the TAN/TBN is fine, particles in the oil are minimal, it is just contaminated and needs to be changed.
One thing I always remind people of with their oil changes is that their air filter is more important than their oil filter. If your air filter is #@$%!, you may as well never bother with an oil change, because your dirt entering the engine will destroy a lot more parts a lot quicker than you can break down the oil.
And yes, I saw the bit about K&N filters, and tested my paper VS oil-soaked gauze with my oil analysis, and the Silicon levels are about the same for both filters.
I change my oil every 10,000kms: I worked my way up to that from 5, then 7.5, and now 10k using oil analysis. The problem I ran into was water and gasoline contamination. Seems my driving style leaves the car running rich just a bit, and quite often I don't drive it at all on weekends, so I probably get a bit of condensation.
At any rate, after 10,000km, the oil is still perfect. The wear metals are all very acceptable, the TAN/TBN is fine, particles in the oil are minimal, it is just contaminated and needs to be changed.
One thing I always remind people of with their oil changes is that their air filter is more important than their oil filter. If your air filter is #@$%!, you may as well never bother with an oil change, because your dirt entering the engine will destroy a lot more parts a lot quicker than you can break down the oil.
And yes, I saw the bit about K&N filters, and tested my paper VS oil-soaked gauze with my oil analysis, and the Silicon levels are about the same for both filters.
Patman
Staff member
An excellent point! A lot of people (outside of BITOG) have no idea how important the air filter is to the life of your engine and the ability of your oil to go longer between changes. I've seen this firsthand, as my new air intake setup is letting in a bit more silicon and even though my engine wear has not gone up, the TBN of my oil is now dropping much faster than before, and I can no longer to 8 to 9000 miles between changes. I need to stay at 6-7000 miles if I want the TBN to be above 2.0 at the end of the interval.
I was getting really good results when I had the K&N air filter on my car. I'm hoping that as my current filter (which is also a cotton gauze filter) gets more miles on it that it might just improve it's filtering ability, as a lot of cotton gauze type filters will do as they get more dirt trapped in them.
Hey, that dipstick looks familiar!
Unless you have the BITOG craving to change the oil, then just top 'er up an change it at somewhere in the 5000-6000 OCI range.
Unless you have the BITOG craving to change the oil, then just top 'er up an change it at somewhere in the 5000-6000 OCI range.
I'd either add a half qt of delo and go another 1000 or change in a few weeks. I probably have the same 2-3 mile trip to work with longer once or twice week in the Bay Area in a Mazda B2200. My Chevron does get blacker than your but it test ok at 4000 miles.
If you have a case or two of Kragen Chevron 5-30 at 89 cents - I'd change. I just changed out PP to Chevron 5-20 / delo mix. Got quieter overall, less lifter noise. I put on my first ST as I usually use Purolator and got more start up noise for a second even in 50 decree morning start. Stick with the Purolator.
If you have a case or two of Kragen Chevron 5-30 at 89 cents - I'd change. I just changed out PP to Chevron 5-20 / delo mix. Got quieter overall, less lifter noise. I put on my first ST as I usually use Purolator and got more start up noise for a second even in 50 decree morning start. Stick with the Purolator.
I'm just going to change the oil next week when I replace the fuel filter. I should have exactly 3k miles on it by then. No point in topping it up...
Oil change supplies are in the second picture...
Oil change supplies are in the second picture...
A friendly warning about K&N or any other oil guaze filters. They can cause you a lot of headache in future. Many folks experienced MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor failures in different models across the brands. MAF sensor does not even have to fail to give you problems.. A little misreading here and there and voila, you might have transmission jerks etc. So, my advice.. stay away from oil guaze filters and more importantly dont try to clean them as that can trigger more gunk getting on sensor.
Patman,
You should install, with some effort, an additional nice paper filter element downstream of your primary intake filter but leading to your crankcase ventilation intake pipe. This should prevent alot of the silica and salt contamination that you are seeing in your used oil analysis, and the particulate issues. The PCV breathing won't suffer from the addition of the extra filter.
You should install, with some effort, an additional nice paper filter element downstream of your primary intake filter but leading to your crankcase ventilation intake pipe. This should prevent alot of the silica and salt contamination that you are seeing in your used oil analysis, and the particulate issues. The PCV breathing won't suffer from the addition of the extra filter.
The Critic,
Your engine is well beyond the age that you can use the "lease vehicle I don't care about" oils like the conventional SM oils, and expect nothing to happen. Usage of that cheap-O oil for the long run on your short-trips-on-cold-oil engine will send your car to the junkyard in short order. You will begin to experience the "conventional oil death spiral" where your rings will start to finally hang, and gaskets and seals rapidly varnish over and dry out and fail. The resultant fouled oil will wear the engine rapidly. The fix is very costly compared to the pennies you spend on oil changes.
Your future emergency switch to the HDEO 15w40's like other Saturn owners will be too late, and ARX won't be able to replace the bore metal that your hung rings shaved off. Higher mileage engines require the best possible oils (not necessarily synthetic) at a reduced OCI, especially if they have been damaged by the use of the minimalist car oils like your are using. used oil analysis won't reveal the severity of the metals lost to the sticky engine surfaces, and oil pan and filter gray scum (or the media). The above suggestion of the HDEO 15w40 - 5W-20 synthetic blend is a good one. Try it and check oil consumption and oil color.
Good luck, and I hope you are able to save this engine. Mankind and Mother Earth are depending on you since engine or car replacement costs are devastating in this day and age.
R. Buckeler
Your engine is well beyond the age that you can use the "lease vehicle I don't care about" oils like the conventional SM oils, and expect nothing to happen. Usage of that cheap-O oil for the long run on your short-trips-on-cold-oil engine will send your car to the junkyard in short order. You will begin to experience the "conventional oil death spiral" where your rings will start to finally hang, and gaskets and seals rapidly varnish over and dry out and fail. The resultant fouled oil will wear the engine rapidly. The fix is very costly compared to the pennies you spend on oil changes.
Your future emergency switch to the HDEO 15w40's like other Saturn owners will be too late, and ARX won't be able to replace the bore metal that your hung rings shaved off. Higher mileage engines require the best possible oils (not necessarily synthetic) at a reduced OCI, especially if they have been damaged by the use of the minimalist car oils like your are using. used oil analysis won't reveal the severity of the metals lost to the sticky engine surfaces, and oil pan and filter gray scum (or the media). The above suggestion of the HDEO 15w40 - 5W-20 synthetic blend is a good one. Try it and check oil consumption and oil color.
Good luck, and I hope you are able to save this engine. Mankind and Mother Earth are depending on you since engine or car replacement costs are devastating in this day and age.
R. Buckeler
Although cheap, I have always heard Chevron held in high regards around BITOG circles. Is there something to know about this oil?
His Saturn barely uses any oil - virtually no evidence of rings sludged in place. He's doing 3k OCI when it could easily do 5k. Critics level of care and maitenance on cars he doesn't own is about as high as I've seen.
I use mostly chevron and delo and personally have pulled the head at 150k and 175k and the metal is still silver. If this is cheap sm oil - its going to take around 300k miles to do my conventional death spiral.
I use mostly chevron and delo and personally have pulled the head at 150k and 175k and the metal is still silver. If this is cheap sm oil - its going to take around 300k miles to do my conventional death spiral.
Patman; Is the Vararam filter still the ONLY one that fits into their system?? It's too bad there is no EaA that will fit in there.
They (Vararam) kept saying (and stringing us along) that they were developing a system for the LS1 f bodies, for the past 4 years!! They even had working test mule prototypes in cars. But it seems that with the model's demise they have given up the project.
Patman
Staff member
Quote:
Patman; Is the Vararam filter still the ONLY one that fits into their system?? It's too bad there is no EaA that will fit in there.
That would be perfect if the Amsoil air filter would fit in there! Someone recently mentioned they found a K&N air filter that fit, but I would still be worried that it was not a perfect match. Even though the Vararam filter is letting in a little bit more silicon right now, it's not a dangerous amount so I'll just leave it be. My wear numbers have stayed the same as before, it's just that the TBN now drops faster that's all. If I switch to a totally new filter again, I'd be worried that my silicon might skyrocket. So I'll just hang in there and see how this one progresses along.
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