Lots of Internet articles and YouTube videos showing how to adjust toe. The front wheel toe spec for my 99 Avalon is 0 +/- .1degree. Based on ride and tire wear, my car is perfectly aligned now. I will be changing inner & outer tie rod on right side. If I am very careful making sure the new tie rod is exactly the same length as the old and then check toe and adjust if necessary, can I get away without a front end alignment? I figure I will be close enough that if my tire does start to wear, it will be very slow and I will have lots of time to get to a front end alignment shop before harming my tire.
DIY Wheel Alignment
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just make sure the forward edge of the wheel to wheel measurement is a 1/16 shorter than the same measurement taken at the rear edge.
I always wait until I get a discount coupon from a tire shop so do your own then watch for a sale. Some shops will do a check for free.
I've done it a few times to my Taurus. It really was out of whack a few times and I got it back. I'm sure it wasn't perfect, but better than it was.
The Cherokee gets aligned each time it goes off road. It's harsh on steering components.
The Cherokee gets aligned each time it goes off road. It's harsh on steering components.
I align my vehicles myself. Once before heading out on a long trip with the family I bought a new set of tires for the Suburban and had it aligned at a very large nation wide shop. I won't drop the name. Apparently the tech who did the job was having a bad day or just didn't care.
During the trip I noticed the wheel felt numb and turn-in response had been reduced from 'Okay!" to "Do I have to?". I just figured I had gotten used to the feeling of toe out and it was now toe in.
I began noticing some strange wear soon after and decided to check things out when I changed the shocks. The driver's side upper arm was set for maximum positive caster and slight negative camber, the passenger side upper arm was set for nearly 0 caster and slightly positive camber, and the toe was nearly 1/4" in. Needless to say I made a few adjustments.
During the trip I noticed the wheel felt numb and turn-in response had been reduced from 'Okay!" to "Do I have to?". I just figured I had gotten used to the feeling of toe out and it was now toe in.
I began noticing some strange wear soon after and decided to check things out when I changed the shocks. The driver's side upper arm was set for maximum positive caster and slight negative camber, the passenger side upper arm was set for nearly 0 caster and slightly positive camber, and the toe was nearly 1/4" in. Needless to say I made a few adjustments.
Don't count on the new tie rod being the same geometry as the old one, even if you hold them up side-by-side!!! Counting threads etc doesn't work except to get you in the widest area of the ballpark.
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Could you please give a little more detail? I can't visualize what you are suggesting. Thanks.
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Could you please give a little more detail? I can't visualize what you are suggesting. Thanks.
Quote:
just make sure the forward edge of the wheel to wheel measurement is a 1/16 shorter than the same measurement taken at the rear edge.
I see your cars are RWD. Researching toe in years ago, many wrote that toe in like you said is good for RWD. Zero toe in good for FWD, AWD. The theory is that FWD front wheels pull the car forward and tend to toe in under power. In RWD, fronts tend to be pushed by the car and tend to toe out under power.
Did the front toe adjustment following this article. It was way off, steering wheel not centered. My car does not have easy camber adjustment. Tires wore evenly after. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1093484
just make sure the forward edge of the wheel to wheel measurement is a 1/16 shorter than the same measurement taken at the rear edge.
I see your cars are RWD. Researching toe in years ago, many wrote that toe in like you said is good for RWD. Zero toe in good for FWD, AWD. The theory is that FWD front wheels pull the car forward and tend to toe in under power. In RWD, fronts tend to be pushed by the car and tend to toe out under power.
Did the front toe adjustment following this article. It was way off, steering wheel not centered. My car does not have easy camber adjustment. Tires wore evenly after. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1093484
I got a lifetime alignment years ago - I think I paid $160 although it's probably more now. Got it at a Firestone shop and I believe I can get a check and alignment at any shop they run in the country. The first time I got one of these things it was $140. For my car they're currently listing $79.99 for a standard alignment and $169.99 for the lifetime alignment.
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/repair/alignment.jsp
The only issue is that if it's still within spec but not dead on - they have no incentive to center the alignment withing the published range. I'm having an issue with rear tire inside shoulder wear and I don't think it's ever been dead centered. I thought they said it wasn't anything that they could adjust, but it was a while ago.
The other issue is that sometimes I get back a whole bunch of "recommendations" for new tires or certain services along with prices. Sometimes I get nothing more than an alignment report. I believe they do this because it brings in cars that may actually need more services, and where the owner doesn't feel like price shopping. I would say that I've never gotten a recommendation that wasn't sound, but I didn't necessarily feel obligated to get it serviced there.
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/repair/alignment.jsp
The only issue is that if it's still within spec but not dead on - they have no incentive to center the alignment withing the published range. I'm having an issue with rear tire inside shoulder wear and I don't think it's ever been dead centered. I thought they said it wasn't anything that they could adjust, but it was a while ago.
The other issue is that sometimes I get back a whole bunch of "recommendations" for new tires or certain services along with prices. Sometimes I get nothing more than an alignment report. I believe they do this because it brings in cars that may actually need more services, and where the owner doesn't feel like price shopping. I would say that I've never gotten a recommendation that wasn't sound, but I didn't necessarily feel obligated to get it serviced there.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Could you please give a little more detail? I can't visualize what you are suggesting. Thanks.
Do you have a laser level? Take it out to your car and use the straight-edge on your tire bulges so that the laser is parallel to your tire/ wheel. Do it on all four corners. Point the dot at other tires. Take notes.
Firstly this will show you how seriously centered your steering wheel is, or needs to be.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Could you please give a little more detail? I can't visualize what you are suggesting. Thanks.
Do you have a laser level? Take it out to your car and use the straight-edge on your tire bulges so that the laser is parallel to your tire/ wheel. Do it on all four corners. Point the dot at other tires. Take notes.
Firstly this will show you how seriously centered your steering wheel is, or needs to be.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Could you please give a little more detail? I can't visualize what you are suggesting. Thanks.
Do you have a laser level? Take it out to your car and use the straight-edge on your tire bulges so that the laser is parallel to your tire/ wheel. Do it on all four corners. Point the dot at other tires. Take notes.
Firstly this will show you how seriously centered your steering wheel is, or needs to be.
Got it - thanks!
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Take a laser level, put it on your tire at 4 and 8 oclock, and point it at your rear wheel. Should "just barely miss". When you get the car back together, roll it back and forth on the floor a few feet to take the preload out of the bushings and do it again.
Could you please give a little more detail? I can't visualize what you are suggesting. Thanks.
Do you have a laser level? Take it out to your car and use the straight-edge on your tire bulges so that the laser is parallel to your tire/ wheel. Do it on all four corners. Point the dot at other tires. Take notes.
Firstly this will show you how seriously centered your steering wheel is, or needs to be.
Got it - thanks!
Using the tire sidewall can be inaccurate due to variations in the tire. Using the wheel rim with two equal spacers is a more accurate method. Also look up (or measure) you car's front and rear tread width spec. Most cars have different tread widths between the front and rear which effects this method of laser alignment.
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment.
I would re-think this. First rule of alignment (at least in my opinion): if it drives right and the tires are wearing good, don't touch it. You have nothing to gain here, and a lot to lose (not including your cash).
Edit: Your last post wasn't clear on if you were going to go through with the suspension component replacement. Only if you go through with replacing the tie rod ends would I align it. If you don't replace anything, I wouldn't touch it.
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment.
I would re-think this. First rule of alignment (at least in my opinion): if it drives right and the tires are wearing good, don't touch it. You have nothing to gain here, and a lot to lose (not including your cash).
Edit: Your last post wasn't clear on if you were going to go through with the suspension component replacement. Only if you go through with replacing the tie rod ends would I align it. If you don't replace anything, I wouldn't touch it.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment.
I would re-think this. First rule of alignment (at least in my opinion): if it drives right and the tires are wearing good, don't touch it. You have nothing to gain here, and a lot to lose (not including your cash).
Edit: Your last post wasn't clear on if you were going to go through with the suspension component replacement. Only if you go through with replacing the tie rod ends would I align it. If you don't replace anything, I wouldn't touch it.
Yes, I would not do anything if I were not changing the inner & outer tie rods on the left side.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment.
I would re-think this. First rule of alignment (at least in my opinion): if it drives right and the tires are wearing good, don't touch it. You have nothing to gain here, and a lot to lose (not including your cash).
Edit: Your last post wasn't clear on if you were going to go through with the suspension component replacement. Only if you go through with replacing the tie rod ends would I align it. If you don't replace anything, I wouldn't touch it.
Yes, I would not do anything if I were not changing the inner & outer tie rods on the left side.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
I would not trust the local Firestone shop to check the air in my tires. I am sure there are many competent Firestone shops around but I would not know how to separate the good from the bad.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
I would not trust the local Firestone shop to check the air in my tires. I am sure there are many competent Firestone shops around but I would not know how to separate the good from the bad.
As long as toe-in is correct, tire wear is usually at a minimum... Caster and camber will effect the way the vehicles tracks, uneven caster and it will pull to one side...
I use a 1940s Bear alignment plate to set toe, have fixed numerous issues in about 15min... That includes a almost new E-250 van that was so bow legged from the factory it was destroying a set of front tires in approx 20K mi(also drove(tracked)poorly... Was most certainly a factory issue as all it's sister vans had same issue...
BTW I'd post a pict but it's loaned out to a friend who's working on a race car...
I use a 1940s Bear alignment plate to set toe, have fixed numerous issues in about 15min... That includes a almost new E-250 van that was so bow legged from the factory it was destroying a set of front tires in approx 20K mi(also drove(tracked)poorly... Was most certainly a factory issue as all it's sister vans had same issue...
BTW I'd post a pict but it's loaned out to a friend who's working on a race car...
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
I would not trust the local Firestone shop to check the air in my tires. I am sure there are many competent Firestone shops around but I would not know how to separate the good from the bad.
How would a shop screw up a wheel alignment using computerized equipment?
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
I would not trust the local Firestone shop to check the air in my tires. I am sure there are many competent Firestone shops around but I would not know how to separate the good from the bad.
How would a shop screw up a wheel alignment using computerized equipment?
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
I would not trust the local Firestone shop to check the air in my tires. I am sure there are many competent Firestone shops around but I would not know how to separate the good from the bad.
How would a shop screw up a wheel alignment using computerized equipment?
Garbage in, garbage out! I don't care how great the system is, an improperly trained or incompetent tech can screw it up.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Thanks for all the responses. My car has not been aligned for over 10 years. Even though it drives perfectly with steering wheel in the center and no tread wear, I am going to bite the bullet and pay for an alignment. I talked with my local Hunter rep and he recommended a garage which has the latest Hunter alignment equipment and who Hunter considers one of their most competent shops in my area. I have watched many videos and read many articles and come to the conclusion DIY wheel alignment is not for me.
Like I said, a lifetime alignment was a pretty good investment for me. I actually got it aligned with less than 1000 miles. The alignment report showed that it was way out of alignment. The service manager said that most cars aren't actually aligned before delivery, and they sort of hope that it's close to spec after assembly. The Firestone shop I use does have Hunter alignment rigs. I remember watching my car on their rack. It was odd seeing panels being attached to the wheels and all these flashing lights.
Just in case:
http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com...;method=vehicle
I would not trust the local Firestone shop to check the air in my tires. I am sure there are many competent Firestone shops around but I would not know how to separate the good from the bad.
How would a shop screw up a wheel alignment using computerized equipment?
Garbage in, garbage out! I don't care how great the system is, an improperly trained or incompetent tech can screw it up.
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