Divorcing Mobil 1

[babbittd]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It WAS intended to be their precursor to GTL until their GTL plant budget went offside and they abandoned it.


Did you all ever see this (related)? Searched and didn't find it.

Shell abandons plans for $20B Gulf Coast plant

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/12/05/shell-abandons-plans-for-20b-plant-in-louisiana/

A major difference between the projects was that Shell produces and owns all of the natural gas it uses at the Pearl facility, but would have had to buy natural gas from the U.S. grid in order to supply the Gulf Coast project.

“Despite the ample supplies of natural gas in the area, the company has taken the decision that GTL is not a viable option for Shell in North America, at this time, due to the likely development cost of such a project, uncertainties on long-term oil and gas prices and differentials, and Shell’s strict capital discipline,” the company said in a statement.

 

[OVERKILL]

I had not, thanks for the share!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's not the case everywhere else though. M1 0w-40 is the same price as Castrol's "faux" synthetics and the GTL-based SOPUS products. All with very similar certifications.

And to be a real stick in the mud when it comes to Canadian pricing, the Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 I'm running is primarily PAO, yet its everyday pricing is in conventional territory in Canada.

 

[Mathson]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
So what did you use for the GTL values ?
The mins-maxs for GrIII ?

Here's Shell's version of XHVI4 (from 2004)
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_GTDS_XHVI_4.0.pdf



Nope. These are actual data sheet limits for GTL 4 and 8. Do you want to know typical values?

 

[kschachn]

Oh, no reason except that it was a "response" to that other quote. It wasn't nefarious.

And I don't read that as "nearly GTL" in the sense that GTL is this holy grail they are waiting for with baited breath. It (was) another tool, another method of getting to a synthetic oil. But I do see your point.

Visom was either chasing cheaper ingredients, or it was because PAO was forecast to be in short supply. But that was to replace PAO, not another way to make a "Group III". To me that's a bigger deal. And apparently it was to ExxonMobil as well if they indeed abandoned the GTL effort - as it seems Shell has done as well, at least here in the US.

I guess my point is not arguing just for arguing sake, it comes down to parsing and reading between the lines of a marketing presentation that is years old now. There was a big jump when Mobil brought out M1 back when they did as compared to the readily available oils of the day. To me GTL is not that leap compared to today's hybrid PAO/hydrocracked products.

Besides, I didn't think you were a big pour-point guy...

Originally Posted By: Shannow
You left out the rest of my post...why ?
Mobil call their Visom process the predescesor of GTL (is it really, no, not really ?), and part of their plan to move towards GTL ?

Why would they infer that it's "nearly" GTL, and a stepping stone rather than an end in itself ?

And you believe that visom is NOT chasing cheaper ingredients ?

As per the Shell XHVI4 PDS I posted, Visom is about as good as what Shell made a decade ago...it's not revolutionary, in spite of it being "unique" to Mobil.

When Shell introduced XHVI they at least had the honesty to say "mineral with the performance of synthetic"

I agree that an oil is a complete package...but Mobil are selling 0W40 for $100/5 litres, even as the extremes of their specification are getting poorer...everyone else is 20-30% cheaper.

 

[kschachn]

This makes perfect sense. Once Shell had to pay for the gas it became uneconomical.

Originally Posted By: babbittd
Shell abandons plans for $20B Gulf Coast plant

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/12/05/shell-abandons-plans-for-20b-plant-in-louisiana/

A major difference between the projects was that Shell produces and owns all of the natural gas it uses at the Pearl facility, but would have had to buy natural gas from the U.S. grid in order to supply the Gulf Coast project.

“Despite the ample supplies of natural gas in the area, the company has taken the decision that GTL is not a viable option for Shell in North America, at this time, due to the likely development cost of such a project, uncertainties on long-term oil and gas prices and differentials, and Shell’s strict capital discipline,” the company said in a statement.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
This makes perfect sense. Once Shell had to pay for the gas it became uneconomical.
Originally Posted By: babbittd
Shell abandons plans for $20B Gulf Coast plant. http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/12/05/shell-abandons-plans-for-20b-plant-in-louisiana/

A major difference between the projects was that Shell produces and owns all of the natural gas it uses at the Pearl facility, but would have had to buy natural gas from the U.S. grid in order to supply the Gulf Coast project.

“Despite the ample supplies of natural gas in the area, the company has taken the decision that GTL is not a viable option for Shell in North America, at this time, due to the likely development cost of such a project, uncertainties on long-term oil and gas prices and differentials, and Shell’s strict capital discipline,” the company said in a statement.

Does this mean that all PPP and PUP is made from "imported" stocks (not that other oils are not)? I am not a SOPUS user at present and have not kept up with the trends.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Does this mean that all PPP and PUP is made from "imported" stocks

Well, yes, at least to some extent. GTL stock comes from SOPUS's refinery in Qatar.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
This makes perfect sense. Once Shell had to pay for the gas it became uneconomical.


You mean that shell had not paid for the gas that they currently own? I want my own free gas field!

 

[kschachn]

Like all byproducts, yes they paid for it but disposing of it becomes a liability. They don't want to pay for it twice, so either you build a GTL plant, liquify it and find a market (but that's expensive), or you vent and burn it. Oh and extract any helium if there is any.

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: kschachn
This makes perfect sense. Once Shell had to pay for the gas it became uneconomical.


You mean that shell had not paid for the gas that they currently own? I want my own free gas field!