Divorcing Mobil 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nice backpedal. I like how you make claims as if you know something, and then when you are shown to be ignorant of the facts you say "whatever is in it".

Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
What ever is in it it's a whole lot quieter & smoother than Mobil-1 in both my Hemi 5.7 & 4.6 Modular V8! That's proof enough for me! Lol



My ears & senses don't lie dude! It is what it is!


My sons Dodge truck and the Ford 4.6 I had both run very quite and extremly clean on nothing but M1 oils. 10K OCIs.
 
Just to add another .02. I don't care much for the oil or the brand for a few reasons. My CTS-V will consume over 50% more M1 in a given interval than it does Pennzoil Ultra or Platinum and it consumes more than double the amount of M1 vs G-Oil. The consumption increase has been the case with both the M1 0w30 and per my last fill the 10w30EP. BUT my car has M1 on the cap for factory fill! (if you think that marketing from GM and Mobil means anything, I certainly don't)

Also, the M1 EP seems to contain a bit of marketing B S because from what I can tell from reading UAO's there are not any significant changes made to the EP to warrant it being safe to run 15,000 miles.

Another reason I don't like Mobil as a brand, their synthetic used to be a Group IV and at someone point, unbeknown to consumers, they cheapened their base stock to increase profit margins. I think their oil is still in some ways riding on the original reputation it had.

I view regular Mobil 1 syn as the go to oil for people who don't know much about synthetic oils but they care about their vehicle. As a brand Mobil is the equivalent of a chain restaurant in my eyes. The Olive Garden of synthetics.

The 0w40 is a great oil though and I would consider using it if I had a car I wanted a 40wt in.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally Posted By: Shark
Just to add another .02. I don't care much for the oil or the brand for a few reasons. My CTS-V will consume over 50% more M1 in a given interval than it does Pennzoil Ultra or Platinum and it consumes more than double the amount of M1 vs G-Oil. The consumption increase has been the case with both the M1 0w30 and per my last fill the 10w30EP. BUT my car has M1 on the cap for factory fill! (if you think that marketing from GM and Mobil means anything, I certainly don't)

Also, the M1 EP seems to contain a bit of marketing B S because from what I can tell from reading UAO's there are not any significant changes made to the EP to warrant it being safe to run 15,000 miles.

Another reason I don't like Mobil as a brand, their synthetic used to be a Group IV and at someone point, unbeknown to consumers, they cheapened their base stock to increase profit margins. I think their oil is still in some ways riding on the original reputation it had.

I view regular Mobil 1 syn as the go to oil for people who don't know much about synthetic oils but they care about their vehicle. As a brand Mobil is the equivalent of a chain restaurant in my eyes. The Olive Garden of synthetics.

The 0w40 is a great oil though and I would consider using it if I had a car I wanted a 40wt in.


Most everything you said is type writer, internet tripe. I will counter your M1 oil use with my M1 doesn't use oil testimony.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Nice backpedal. I like how you make claims as if you know something, and then when you are shown to be ignorant of the facts you say "whatever is in it".

Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
What ever is in it it's a whole lot quieter & smoother than Mobil-1 in both my Hemi 5.7 & 4.6 Modular V8! That's proof enough for me! Lol



My ears & senses don't lie dude! It is what it is!


My sons Dodge truck and the Ford 4.6 I had both run very quite and extremly clean on nothing but M1 oils. 10K OCIs.


I've noticed no increased noises when running M1 in any vehicle I've ever used it in, either. A 2003 Malibu V6, 1995 Acura Integra LS, 1999 Pontiac Firebird 3.8, etc. No consumption issues, either.
 
Your post wasn't even worth .02. You are wrong on every point you tried (and failed badly) to make, except for the consumption only because I wasn't there. 50% is deceitful. 50% of what? A quart? The entire crankcase? No need to respond. You'll just inflate the amount in an attempt to solidify that point. Full circle back to your post has no substance.

Originally Posted By: Shark
Just to add another .02...
 
I love this forum sometimes.

M1 burns 3/4-1 quart per 5k. Pennzoil burns 1/2 quart per 5k. G-Oil burns almost none, maybe an 1/8th. All consistent with about 2-3 changes each per brand.

Also, would someone like to counter what I said with something other than semantics? Perhaps clarify the actual advantages of EP? The consensus I've seen on BITOG is the only real difference was price with hints at maybe a more robust additive package.

Did mobil not change from a Group IV years ago without giving any notice to their customers? If I was wrong about that I'd gladly be corrected.
 
Originally Posted By: Shark
I love this forum sometimes.


We can tell.

Originally Posted By: Shark
M1 burns 3/4-1 quart per 5k. Pennzoil burns 1/2 quart per 5k. G-Oil burns almost none, maybe an 1/8th. All consistent with about 2-3 changes each per brand.


- My M5: M1 burns 1L per 10,000Km, PU 5w-40 burns 2L per 10,000Km.
- Our Expedition: M1 0w-30 burns nothing on 10-12,000Km, PU 5w-30 burns 1L/10,000Km, AMSOIL AZO 0w-30 burns 2L per 10,000Km, Redline 5w-30, burned nothing in the 7,000Km it was in the sump.

I mean, if we are tossing out anecdotes and blaming the oil........
smirk.gif


Originally Posted By: Shark
Also, would someone like to counter what I said with something other than semantics? Perhaps clarify the actual advantages of EP? The consensus I've seen on BITOG is the only real difference was price with hints at maybe a more robust additive package.


M1 EP 0w-20 is 70% PAO according to the MSDS. And the EP lineup is designed (additive package-wise) to last longer in service than regular M1. That's about it for the differences.

Originally Posted By: Shark
Did mobil not change from a Group IV years ago without giving any notice to their customers? If I was wrong about that I'd gladly be corrected.


Mobil began putting Group III base oils in their products after their dispute regarding Castrol about the use of Group III and calling it synthetic was given the nod in favour of Castrol. They use a product called VISOM, which they developed, as an alternative to PAO in their products where it can be used. This means that their products are, as they used to be, a blend of base oils, simply that this blend now includes a Group III product (VISOM), which they didn't in the past. They use PAO where it is necessary/advantageous, along with esters and AN's, which they have always used historically.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Shark
I love this forum sometimes.


We can tell.

Originally Posted By: Shark
M1 burns 3/4-1 quart per 5k. Pennzoil burns 1/2 quart per 5k. G-Oil burns almost none, maybe an 1/8th. All consistent with about 2-3 changes each per brand.


- My M5: M1 burns 1L per 10,000Km, PU 5w-40 burns 2L per 10,000Km.
- Our Expedition: M1 0w-30 burns nothing on 10-12,000Km, PU 5w-30 burns 1L/10,000Km, AMSOIL AZO 0w-30 burns 2L per 10,000Km, Redline 5w-30, burned nothing in the 7,000Km it was in the sump.

I mean, if we are tossing out anecdotes and blaming the oil........
smirk.gif


Originally Posted By: Shark
Also, would someone like to counter what I said with something other than semantics? Perhaps clarify the actual advantages of EP? The consensus I've seen on BITOG is the only real difference was price with hints at maybe a more robust additive package.


M1 EP 0w-20 is 70% PAO according to the MSDS. And the EP lineup is designed (additive package-wise) to last longer in service than regular M1. That's about it for the differences.

Originally Posted By: Shark
Did mobil not change from a Group IV years ago without giving any notice to their customers? If I was wrong about that I'd gladly be corrected.


Mobil began putting Group III base oils in their products after their dispute regarding Castrol about the use of Group III and calling it synthetic was given the nod in favour of Castrol. They use a product called VISOM, which they developed, as an alternative to PAO in their products where it can be used. This means that their products are, as they used to be, a blend of base oils, simply that this blend now includes a Group III product (VISOM), which they didn't in the past. They use PAO where it is necessary/advantageous, along with esters and AN's, which they have always used historically.



Ah, someone knowledgeable. What is not more relevant to someone's own opinion about an oil brand than their own experiences in their specific vehicle? More specifically mine since it suggests running M1 on the engine itself.

I've read that EP is supposed to "be better" but I have yet to come across a UAO that indicated any significant improvements over regular M1. Surely I have not read them all though, and that is partly why I am currently running EP in my CTS-V. But at the rate I've had to add new oil the results would be a bit tainted.
 
Originally Posted By: Shark
I've read that EP is supposed to "be better" but I have yet to come across a UAO that indicated any significant improvements of regular M1. Surely I have not read them all though, and that is partly why I am currently running EP in my CTS-V. But at the rate I've had to add new oil the results would be a bit tainted.

I will find out soon enough. AFE 0W-20 in my FX4 has been stellar and has not used any oil in its 15K runs of AFE. I performed an OC today and installed M1 0W-20 EP.
 
Originally Posted By: Shark

Ah, someone knowledgeable. What is not more relevant to someone's own opinion about an oil brand than their own experiences in their specific vehicle? More specifically mine since it suggests running M1 on the engine itself.

I've read that EP is supposed to "be better" but I have yet to come across a UAO that indicated any significant improvements of regular M1. Surely I have not read them all though, and that is partly why I am currently running EP in my CTS-V. But at the rate I've had to add new oil the results would be a bit tainted.


Yes, EP is supposed to be better, but the additive package and in general the lubricant is indeed very similar to the regular M1 product, which is why a UOA would not show you the difference other than probably a higher TBN at the end of a given OCI. You likely aren't going to see any real differences otherwise.

You know GM runs the 0w-40 product in their race program Corvette's right? If consumption is an issue (which it sounds like it is) then perhaps stepping it up to that oil (though if you are under warranty that could potentially be an issue) might rectify that problem. Some M5's, particularly the earlier ones, drank oil like it was beer. I am lucky that I don't have one of those cars, my consumption is EXTREMELY low for this family of cars. One of BMW's earlier "fixes" was to spec the car for 10w-60, which was supposed to reduce consumption. While it might have, the cars that called for it still consumed an obscene amount of oil. After the ring redesign, the post 03/00 cars consumed massively less oil than their earlier siblings and the requirement for the 10w-60 was dropped. Then it was reintroduced, but only in the USA, then dropped again recently. Ultimately the REAL problem was a mechanical issue (low-tension rings), but any engine (particularly the high performance ones) will consume SOME oil. Whether you see it or not in a given OCI, well, that will of course vary, but the Hi-Po ones do tend to use more oil, it is whether that consumption is acceptable that can be the issue and often why you see guys chasing various oils in search of a panacea.

In your case, since you've seen variations in the consumption by swapping oils, it sounds like just using a different oil might in fact help. There is no "requirement" for you to run Mobil 1 if your car just calls for Dexos 1 or whatever. If you see less consumption with another brand, then use it. GM has a long and extensive relationship with Mobil and I am sure Mobil is involved in their engine development to some degree. They are certainly involved in GM's race program. That said, your particular engine seems to not be responding well consumption-wise to the spec lubricant. If I was in your shoes, and was unable to get the manufacturer to do something else, I'd be chasing things I could change (like the oil) in search of a reduction of consumption too. Your engine may just not like the spec lubricant for whatever reason. It doesn't mean it is hurting anything, but if I could reduce my consumption considerably by changing my oil to another approved product, I would too.

That said, M1 0w-40 is the lowest consumption product (conveniently) in my car. 1/2 the use over PU 5w-40 and the BMW (Castrol) 5w-30. That doesn't mean it is the same for every M5 either or every BMW. I don't think either of the other two products are substandard or any worse than the 0w-40 in protecting my engine because they consumed more. But it does mean I'm not going to use them again. Oil is relatively expensive
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That said, M1 0w-40 is the lowest consumption product (conveniently) in my car. 1/2 the use over PU 5w-40 and the BMW (Castrol) 5w-30. That doesn't mean it is the same for every M5 either or every BMW.

Yup. My 530i doesn't consume PU in any noticeable way, other than what is leaking out of it.

Any my wife's C300 does not consume any M1 0w-40 over the course of 10K miles.
 
What in a UOA would you be looking for to show that it is better?

Originally Posted By: Shark
I've read that EP is supposed to "be better" but I have yet to come across a UAO that indicated any significant improvements over regular M1. Surely I have not read them all though, and that is partly why I am currently running EP in my CTS-V.
 
What properties of the oil were significantly and negatively impacted by the change?

Originally Posted By: Shark
Did mobil not change from a Group IV years ago without giving any notice to their customers? If I was wrong about that I'd gladly be corrected
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What in a UOA would you be looking for to show that it is better?

Originally Posted By: Shark
I've read that EP is supposed to "be better" but I have yet to come across a UAO that indicated any significant improvements over regular M1. Surely I have not read them all though, and that is partly why I am currently running EP in my CTS-V.


Clever question... Wear metals (especially iron), remaining TBN, viscosity relative to spec are what I normally look for when comparing two oils. What I wanted to find, but didn't, was someone who was consistently sampling regular M1 after extended intervals switch to EP and run the same interval or perhaps even the 15,000 they so assuredly say you can. I do recall someone's Toyota had a TBN of 2.2 at 7,000 miles with an EP sample.

When I did search a couple months ago most of what I found were threads with a general uncertainly of what was different in the EP formula. There have been questions going back to 2008/09. I did not find any topics where someone answering with specific certainty if the emporer had clothes.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What properties of the oil were significantly and negatively impacted by the change?

Originally Posted By: Shark
Did mobil not change from a Group IV years ago without giving any notice to their customers? If I was wrong about that I'd gladly be corrected



click here
 
You do realize that most of the links and ExxonMobil's own literature about their Visom product don't support a significant decline in the finished product's properties, and also show an improvement in others. Besides, from all evidence M1 is not a Group III oil - at least not entirely. ExxonMobil claims that the addition of a percentage of Group III to a PAO base stock can improve the product.

Originally Posted By: Shark
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What properties of the oil were significantly and negatively impacted by the change?

Originally Posted By: Shark
Did mobil not change from a Group IV years ago without giving any notice to their customers? If I was wrong about that I'd gladly be corrected

click here
 
It wasn't clever at all. Just wondering what you think you can see in a UOA.

All of the things you mention are more dependent on the specific application (engine, operating environment, etc.) rather than the oil. A bunch of UOAs on the same oil but different vehicles and different operating environments doesn't mean much, right? Even on the same vehicle, seasons change, different driver, anything might make a difference.

And you may see that TBN in a relatively benign environment, what does it say to you?

Originally Posted By: Shark
Clever question... Wear metals (especially iron), remaining TBN, viscosity relative to spec are what I normally look for when comparing two oils. What I wanted to find, but didn't, was someone who was consistently sampling regular M1 after extended intervals switch to EP and run the same interval or perhaps even the 15,000 they so assuredly say you can. I do recall someone's Toyota had a TBN of 2.2 at 7,000 miles with an EP sample.

When I did search a couple months ago most of what I found were threads with a general uncertainly of what was different in the EP formula. There have been questions going back to 2008/09. I did not find any topics where someone answering with specific certainty if the emporer had clothes.
 
This part I feel is pretty sleazy though and is just so ironic,seeing as how Mobil got their panties in a knot over Castrol calling their Grp III oils "synthetic". But,M1 is an excellent oil and I feel their 15W50 and their HM's are one of the best oils on the planet and I have no probs using a faux synth (see my sig):

• There will be no proactive customer communication relating to this reformulation. However, an internal briefing document and Q&A has been prepared to allow sales to respond in the unlikely event of a customer question.

Due to the unique definition of synthetic in Germany (Synthetic = 100% PAO) this reformulation is visible to the consumer and B2B customers.
• A more proactive communication is being prepared for German use
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

F
Oil Recommendation Nissan VQ40DE + opinions on current oil/filter
2
Replies
31
Views
597
ka9mnx
N
Recommend an oil choice to me - used 2005 Highlander V6
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
nthach
Ed_Flecko
Suggestions for a slightly different oil?
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Triple_Se7en
C
Motorcraft synthetic blend vs full synthetic
Replies
7
Views
2K
Rinspeed
Z
  • Locked
When did Mobil 1 stop being a true synthetic?
Replies
14
Views
3K
MolaKule
Back
Top