Disagreement with the boss..

[wander2039]

Over transmission fluid changes. We have 3 Escapes that have never had their fluid changed at work with the weak CD4E transmissions. I've noticed they tend to stutter on shifts and I brought it up to him which started it all. 2 years old and 125k on two of them and the fluid is brown. He tried to tell me that a mechanic told him that the transmission fluid never needed to be changed. Just top up when necessary. He also informed me that he got over 200k on a 70's chevy automatic with no changes. And the book doesn't call for it. I showed him the severe schedule and it does call for 30k which ended the disagreement and told him he's a moron/dipstick for comparing a 70's hunk of iron to the weak knee'd transmissions of today, yeah I'm too honest

.

Of course it's probably to late for these transmissions and we'll be getting rid of them in a couple months anyways. Funny though they spent over two hundred to put new plugs in yesterday. He didn't believe me on ps flushes either even though they've put three pumps in each. I flushed the escape I drive the other day and fixed it, still didn't believe me.

I find it disturbing how much money the companies i've worked for waste on vehicles and other things. If they'd take care of the vehicles they could afford a $5 raise easily.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

I think most manufactures claim fill for life, although I'm not sure if the Escape is one of them. Also not sure what form of the Escape you have at work, however I do believe some if not all of them are filled for life ATF! I disagree with fill for life, except I look at it from the standpoint of maximum component life.

I find very few people, even those in charge of very large fleets, that really understand anything about oils, greases and lubes in general. Most people in general trust myths and old mechanic's tails and advertising ploy's as the finial word. I just smile, nod and continue walking if they are not receptive to any information.

 

[The Critic]

So did the ATF get changed or not?

Don't even get me started with the disagreements I've had with my dad about maintenance. He follows the book and nothing more, even if the fluid is still brown.

 

[wander2039]

Nope and probably won't get changed. I've told him that it would probably do more harm than good with a full flush at this mileage. Probably the best bet would be to pull the plug and refill at every oil change for 20k. Eventually i'd like to make a agreement so I can do the pm's. Just drive the truck home one day they buy the fluid and pay me a little overtime to do it. The duty they see is severe service I don't know of any manufactor that would recommend life-time fluids for severe service.

My mom/dad didn't listen to me on their 00 Impala either. I told them that they needed to change the transmission fluid every 30k. 130k later and no changes it started slipping. This is the grand moment when the son is right and the dad actually admits it. On their new car the plug will be pulled every 15k.

 

[The Critic]

It wouldn't do more harm. I think the whole "don't change it if it's brown" business is a myth anyway. Most of the problems come when people do not service the serviceable filter (if present) during the fluid change.

130k out of the 4T65E on an Impala is darn good. That unit is notorious for solenoid problems that would cause a failure well before that.

 

[wander2039]

Well it's more a "CYA" than anything. I hate to tell the boss to change it and then it's dies. They did have some problems other than the gasket issue but I don't know what it was.

 

[Trucku]

Tried to get my buddy on board with his trucks and vans. He doesn't listen. He would save so much money instead of waiting for a failure to fix it. He doesn't change anything except the oil and thats done irregularly on trucks that consistently drive the same miles month after month.

 

[Stooge]

Like most maintenance, you could probably get a pretty good arguement that, economically speaking, a fleat of vehicles with just the minimum specified maintenance will be cheaper to operate than a fleet of vehicles with more comprehensive maintenance (aka - the "lifetime fill" notion wins pretty much every time). However, for individual or small numbers of vehicles, the odds are worse, thus I have and still do "old school" comprehensive break-in and the ole every 2 year complete vehicle fluid changes. I've never had a fluid related failure on any vehicle for over 30 years. I usually just get tired of the car/truck and give it to my brothers. Is it cheaper to do this, probably not, but for me and couple cars, it works well and I wouldn't do it any other way.

 

[Kestas]

You may be wise not to push the issue. You did the right thing by suggesting to your boss about a proper maintenance schedule. Don't try to get too involved unless your boss asks for help at this point.

Just like doing work for friends and family, you have to know whom you're doing the work for. If you work on the vehicle, and something goes wrong on it shortly afterward, the blame may be placed on you, even if the problem was unrelated to the maintenance.

Plus there's the factor of trying to supercede the boss' decisions that doesn't bode well with boss-employee relationships. A good boss would recognize that an employee has good knowledge of vehicle maintenance and use it to his advantage. Unfortunately, one of the modern qualities of a successful boss is abject arrogance, which can frustrate an employee. Most bosses are somewhere in between.

Then again, maybe he know something you don't, like that the vehicle will only be used for a certain number of miles, then turned over to auction.

I see a lot of waste in our company. We have a decent tool shop in back... mill, lathe, grinder, etc., which I need to use at times. Nobody does anything to maintain this equipment, especially lubrication. If I (a senior engineer) didn't avail myself to lube the machinery, they'd never get lubed. I talked to the managers about this and they don't care. Neither do the technicians, who are busy working on "chargable" projects. There's no "glory" in maintainance in our campany. They just squeeze the bottom line. Like the old saying... "The managers get from their employees what they reward".

 

[Mike_dup1]

Quote:

---

Like most maintenance, you could probably get a pretty good arguement that, economically speaking, a fleat of vehicles with just the minimum specified maintenance will be cheaper to operate than a fleet of vehicles with more comprehensive maintenance (aka - the "lifetime fill" notion wins pretty much every time).

---

I know many gov't agency's work on this philosophy. I worked (surveyor) for a state DOT for 30 yrs and none of our trucks and suburbans ever got a trans flush. Most all went well over 100,000 miles under severe conditions. In those 30 yrs, only 2 trucks had trans problems and both were 90's model F150's. Our OCI was 5,000 miles and no time limits. They amortized all vehicles and if repairs exceeded residual value, the vehicle was replaced and the old unit auctioned off. They contracted all this out to Wheels Inc and all repairs required phone authorization (no easy task I was told, the shop had to justify all repairs, i has happened the removed a vehicle from one shop and towed it to another), no driver could do that.

 

[KBFXDLI]

Why get yourself all worked up over a moron? If he doesn't believe in PM (like most corporate idiots) then drop it. He sees it as an unnecessary expense. My wife had a boss who told her she was "changing her oil too much" on her company lease car. She was doing a 5000 oci and he wanted 7500 on a Ford Taurus with dino. The oil coming out was like cride oil coming out of the ground. But he just plain didn't care.

 

[RF Overlord]

Quote:

---

I find very few people, even those in charge of very large fleets, that really understand anything about oils, greases and lubes in general. Most people in general trust myths and old mechanic's tails and advertising ploy's as the finial word.

---

Exactly.

I work for a large Telecom company and I've found our fleet manager knows NOTHING about proper oil/ATF/differential/transfer-case change intervals except what the old myths perpetuate. It's really sad how much money my company wastes on vehicle maintenance because of stupidity...

...and before anyone says it, yes I've tried...and I've been told to ****...

 

[wander2039]

Actually my boss does seem to listen my opinions, do anything about it well not yet. Probably because I normally mention the benefits to the company when I present something like this. $100 every 30k flush or $400 over the life of the vehicle compared to $3500 for a new transmission. And not to mention down time. But i'm not going to press the issue till the new vehicles.

Also I found out today that these trucks have had at least 2 ps pumps a piece and 3 alternators. I find this odd. Anybody with experience on cops car? I wonder how many alternator's they go through. The shop tried to tell me because of the heavy load we put on them. What with one radio and on occasion the emergency lights.. either doesn't pull that much. This same shop didn't even know where the fuses for the cig lighter or power point were located... idiots to say the least.

 

[doitmyself]

Eric, does your job responsibility include worrying about the company's fleet maintenance? Last time I did that many years ago, my supervisor asked if I didn't have enough to do (message received). Your concerns are valid, but take Kestas' advice and wisdom, pursue the issue carefully.

In the mean time I suggest getting a life! - That is, get married, have a few kids, start dealing with illness, legal problems, and on and on........ then you won't have time to worry so much about other's problems.

Just venting, in jest. Ah.....winter cabin fever is setting in.

 

[wander2039]

Unfornately if i'm stuck in a vehicle for 8 hrs I do care what shape the vehicles are in. I drive 60 miles a day most of those are to off sites. If I break down I'm stuck there till the other person arrives. In the mean time I could get run over knowing this kc drivers. I find a having a life to trouble some.. to much drama. I'm married though that's enough.

 

[GMGuy]

Quote:

---

The shop tried to tell me because of the heavy load we put on them. What with one radio and on occasion the emergency lights.. either doesn't pull that much.

---

The problem stems from the fact that an alternator puts out the least current at idle speeds (cop cars do have a higher idle speed than the comparable civillian car to help out with this). You also have the least amount of cooling available to the alternator at idle (no air movement except what is generated by the fan). The higher the load, the higher the heat, the higher the heat, the more stress on the internals, the more stress on the internals, the lower the life. The lower the rpm, the lower the output, the closer to the operational limit you operate... Repeat cycle of tradeoffs.

In the case of some aftermarket purpose built alternators, on ambulances for instance, the case is HUGE to help combat the heat, but cars have a space issue.
BTW, unless the car has LED's, the current draw will be significant.

As for fleet maintanence, let the bean counters worry about it. Unless it puts your driving at immediate risk, your (might) still paid by the hour if you are stuck out in the field with a broken down vehicle. I know I know, I hate that motto, but if thats what management wants, thats what management gets. I don't even get a spare tire and jack any more. "Call the tire shop, they'll come out..." I'd have my tire changed and gotten it repaired by the time the mobile tire guy shows up. But hey, thats what they want. Last time it was 3 hours before the tire guy showed up... But they don't want me to have a jack or spare...

Alex.

 

[wander2039]

Okay found out a little more on the vehicles today. The lease wasn't handled by the company or my boss but a outside agency, GE. Makes me scared to fly. They didn't authorize the spark plug change on the vehicles. Funny because today it took five minutes to start one of them and back fired pretty good once. Luckly no employees were around. My boss was told the plugs won't be changed unless it dies (completely). I bet they would say the same on the transmission. But hey they're getting axed and the actual company is hiring somebody to handle all of the leases and maintenance.. getting tired of the down time I think. So note to self never buy any vehicle that was leased or owned by GE. Maybe I can get on the good side of the new maintenance man and corrupt him BITOG style.

 

[bdcardinal]

ya we deal eith GE Fleet at my work. the vehciles arent actually leased from them, but they are just a huge fleet maintainence company.

 

[Norm Olt]

You can always start looking for a new job: unfortunately mediocrity in management is just about all you can expect, now-a-days...

 

[Kestas]

Don't bother. It's the same everywhere.