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Because the user wishes to. His thread wasn't, "should I disable it? what are your thoughts?" Why do you care what he does with his vehicle?
Disabling GM stop start
- Thread starter Slick3914
- Start date
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Just find it funny that people can complain of 20 seconds without a/c when most people 50 years ago had NO a/c in their cars.
[QUOTE="I Because the user wishes to. His thread wasn't, "should I disable it? what are your thoughts?" Why do you care what he does with his vehicle?
[/QUOTE]
Start/Stop is probably an emissions related system too. When the engine is off it's not putting out emissions. Tampering with it might be a federal violation, like disabling EGR or removing a cat, not to mention increasing pollution for everybody.
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Start/Stop is probably an emissions related system too. When the engine is off it's not putting out emissions. Tampering with it might be a federal violation, like disabling EGR or removing a cat, not to mention increasing pollution for everybody.
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Lol, /facepalm.
So you work for the EPA now? Do you also whine and cry about China and India polluting the Earth as two of the biggest polluters on the planet? Because I haven't seen you post anything about them yet but this one singular person is going to increase pollution for "everybody" apparently.
Do you get a lot of nosebleeds on that high horse?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
If that were the case the OEM's wouldn't be allowed to have buttons on the dash to disable it.
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Get outta here with your logic and common sense, sir! That's not allowed here at BITOG.
There is some truth to his statement. The buttons allow for a temporary disabling of the feature. Employing tuners or software to "permanently" defeat the feature is considered a potential EPA violation.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
When you say "potential" is that because there is no specific mandate to address this at this time? (worded differently: Is this something California is looking into? LOL!) I mean, I disabled SS every single time I was out in the loaner that had it, so it would be "temporary" in name only in that instance, and I'm sure there are plenty of people that operate the same way. If the feature couldn't be defeated via a button, I could see there being a firm mandate for its emissions relevance, but like you can't temporarily disable catalytic converters, EGR or any other factory emissions feature, this seems to stand apart.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Just found this:
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/disabling-your-vehicle-s-stop-start-system-legal-or-illegal
EPA's Opinion On Stop-Start Disabling Legality
In total, seven employees of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency joined the communication chain. The U.S. EPA’s New England Regional Office of Public Affairs took the point position. After three days of consideration of the question here is the answer we received:
“The EPA generally does not allege conduct to be illegal unless and until the agency has developed a factual basis and decided to pursue an enforcement action. To determine whether conduct amounts to illegal tampering or whether an aftermarket product is an illegal defeat device, the EPA would first need to investigate whether each element of the statutory prohibition has occurred. With regard to a start/stop system, for example, before alleging any violation the EPA would need to determine first whether the manufacturer of the vehicle in question used the start/stop system to comply with the applicable regulations concerning emissions. If so, removing that system or rendering it inoperative may amount to illegal tampering, and aftermarket parts and components that bypass, defeat, or render the system inoperative could amount to illegal defeat devices. To date, the tampering and aftermarket defeat device cases EPA has resolved have generally included the complete removal of filters and catalysts that are essential for controlling emissions of oxides of nitrogen, particulate matter, and other tailpipe pollutants.”
So, it would seem that this would hinge on the OEM using SS to meet its emissions requirements. Given that the same powertrains are sold without SS, I expect that would a rare occurrence if at all, and I'd go further and presume that if in fact SS was used to meet the emissions requirements, it would be unable to be defeated, as even with the presence of the button, the end user is able to increase the emissions output of the vehicle beyond compliance, assuming compliance was obtained with the feature enabled.
So, while it's far from being crystal clear, given that this isn't in the same ballpark as removing mandatory emissions equipment, I expect that it would not constitute a violation of the Clean Air Act in being defeated.
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/disabling-your-vehicle-s-stop-start-system-legal-or-illegal
EPA's Opinion On Stop-Start Disabling Legality
In total, seven employees of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency joined the communication chain. The U.S. EPA’s New England Regional Office of Public Affairs took the point position. After three days of consideration of the question here is the answer we received:
“The EPA generally does not allege conduct to be illegal unless and until the agency has developed a factual basis and decided to pursue an enforcement action. To determine whether conduct amounts to illegal tampering or whether an aftermarket product is an illegal defeat device, the EPA would first need to investigate whether each element of the statutory prohibition has occurred. With regard to a start/stop system, for example, before alleging any violation the EPA would need to determine first whether the manufacturer of the vehicle in question used the start/stop system to comply with the applicable regulations concerning emissions. If so, removing that system or rendering it inoperative may amount to illegal tampering, and aftermarket parts and components that bypass, defeat, or render the system inoperative could amount to illegal defeat devices. To date, the tampering and aftermarket defeat device cases EPA has resolved have generally included the complete removal of filters and catalysts that are essential for controlling emissions of oxides of nitrogen, particulate matter, and other tailpipe pollutants.”
So, it would seem that this would hinge on the OEM using SS to meet its emissions requirements. Given that the same powertrains are sold without SS, I expect that would a rare occurrence if at all, and I'd go further and presume that if in fact SS was used to meet the emissions requirements, it would be unable to be defeated, as even with the presence of the button, the end user is able to increase the emissions output of the vehicle beyond compliance, assuming compliance was obtained with the feature enabled.
So, while it's far from being crystal clear, given that this isn't in the same ballpark as removing mandatory emissions equipment, I expect that it would not constitute a violation of the Clean Air Act in being defeated.
Looks like you beat me to it - but it depends on whether start/stop is considered an emission control device. Without knowing the full intent of the system (from its original design), I do not know how the aftermarket can "play safely" in this space.
I know that aftermarket tuners are under heavy scrutiny by the EPA (my friends who do this type of tuning constantly receive bait calls from EPA investigators) so companies producing these types of devices are on thin ice.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Absolutely, my belief however is that if it were indeed used for emissions compliance, you couldn't defeat it, as it would be like putting in pre-cat cutouts on the exhaust that you could just enable/disable.
Just an example off the top of my head:
The RAM is available both with and without Start/Stop. Same powertrain. Clearly, that powertrain didn't get vetted for emissions compliance with SS. There are myriad other examples. While I expect it plays a role in CAFE, I don't think it yet is used for emissions compliance.
No, regulations are established by engine family number. Most likely, the EZH and EZL (etorque models) have a different EFN and are subject to different regulations.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
There was an HFE version of the DS that had SS on the 3.6L (no e-Torque) while the standard 3.6L didn't have it.
The e-torque is a different animal because it's a partial hybrid system, so I'd expect that to be classified differently than the regular 5.7L like my wife's truck, which of course doesn't have SS.
Interestingly, the Grand Cherokee, also with the regular 5.7L, DOES have Start/Stop.
Getting EFN's for each of these examples would be a starting point.
[QUOTE="I Get outta here with your logic and common sense, sir! That's not allowed here at BITOG.
[/QUOTE]
Newbie gettin a little cocky, ain't we.
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Newbie gettin a little cocky, ain't we.
I don't have the start/stop feature on any of my vehicles however I would buy the range device or get the vehicle tuned to omit the start and stop feature. My son has it on his 2020 Jeep Cherokee and I don't like it. He doesn't seem to mind. Many C7 Corvette owners buy the range device to deactivate the cylinder deactivation. C7 Corvette owners have proven that the deactivation is very hard on the automatic transmission and torque converter. If I had a vehicle with this start stop vehicle I would deactivate it ASAP. Just my 2 cents.
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Long-time lurker but join date shouldn't matter when someone posts ridiculous posts such as what you're posting. You never answered my question about your nose bleeds.Newbie gettin a little cocky, ain't we.
This isn’t a labour union. Your seniority doesn’t make you any better.Newbie gettin a little cocky, ain't we.
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