Direct Injectors
- Thread starter Trav
- Start date
- Status
I think a design eliminating that filter and having an external filter that can be serviced easier before the fuel gets to the injectors would have been a much better idea. That design is terrible imo.
Thanks for sharing the pics, as usual the pictures tell a much better story. The manufacturers will eventually figure DI out, but those blindly believing in engineers, as if they were some magical creatures, should take notice.
Last edited:
The difference between SS filters and plastic is 9c ea wholesale so that's 36c per car savings for a 4 banger, multiply that out. The plastic ones get way beyond warranty and guarantee future repairs. Win win for them you loose.
Sure the engineers have ways to make things work better today but for every idea comes the bean counters and they will not let the gravy train stop. Many times the bean counter get it wrong and the heaps cost them a fortune under warranty or get them sued.
Now its not just bean counters, these companies have environmental specialist who work with media specialist. These are some serious professional touch holes responsible for things like OCI, life time fill, TV adds touting how environmentally conscious their cars are built, water based paint, the use of recycled rubbish bins for interior parts, thinner metals, etc.The engineers have very little if any input in any of this unless things go really sideways are the A holes get sued.
Another win win win for them you loose again and they make Joe consumer feel good about it.
Car companies don't give a rats rear about the consumer, an extra few hundred in materials per vehicle could almost make the car rust free and prevent many of the issues that cost a fortune to repair eg SS sleeves in racks, SS brake and fuel lines, better gaskets and seals, galvanizing better quality steel for frames, better plating of hardware and fasteners, etc.
I see one company pushing a New England edition truck, does it include any of those things that would provide longer life? No its some stickers and more friggin cup holders for good money.
Morning rant over.
Sure the engineers have ways to make things work better today but for every idea comes the bean counters and they will not let the gravy train stop. Many times the bean counter get it wrong and the heaps cost them a fortune under warranty or get them sued.
Now its not just bean counters, these companies have environmental specialist who work with media specialist. These are some serious professional touch holes responsible for things like OCI, life time fill, TV adds touting how environmentally conscious their cars are built, water based paint, the use of recycled rubbish bins for interior parts, thinner metals, etc.The engineers have very little if any input in any of this unless things go really sideways are the A holes get sued.
Another win win win for them you loose again and they make Joe consumer feel good about it.
Car companies don't give a rats rear about the consumer, an extra few hundred in materials per vehicle could almost make the car rust free and prevent many of the issues that cost a fortune to repair eg SS sleeves in racks, SS brake and fuel lines, better gaskets and seals, galvanizing better quality steel for frames, better plating of hardware and fasteners, etc.
I see one company pushing a New England edition truck, does it include any of those things that would provide longer life? No its some stickers and more friggin cup holders for good money.
Morning rant over.
Last edited:
Trav you are 100% correct, my comment was more tongue and cheek for those that always fall back on the engineers whenever a topic like this comes back. As if simply by mentioning the engineers should close all the discussion.
I've been working for few engineering firms for over a decade now and have never seen engineers making the final decision on a solution. Heck I hardly even seen them involved with the concept.
In most cases they just get something dropped on their lap and are told to make it work with parameters/requirements already set. Engineers are simply the whipping boys and don't make big picture decision in most companies. Sure there are some companies run by people with engineering degrees, but those are few.
I've been working for few engineering firms for over a decade now and have never seen engineers making the final decision on a solution. Heck I hardly even seen them involved with the concept.
In most cases they just get something dropped on their lap and are told to make it work with parameters/requirements already set. Engineers are simply the whipping boys and don't make big picture decision in most companies. Sure there are some companies run by people with engineering degrees, but those are few.
Last edited:
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Thanks for sharing Trav.
IS this for all DI, or more so VW/Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Ford DI using Bosch or Conti injectors?
I know that Toyota is using dual injection(D4-S) and so is Ford, will the DI injectors on those become a problem as well?
I know that Toyota is using dual injection(D4-S) and so is Ford, will the DI injectors on those become a problem as well?
This effects all AFAIK, dual injection does not do anything for the direct injectors just the back of the intake valves. Its not a big deal really, just another maintenance item.
Yes I do those. PM if you are interested.
Originally Posted by Trav
The move now is to Piezo injectors for DI, I have no idea how they will hold up in everyday use over a long time or many miles, time will tell.
Di is one technology I will stay clear of for now. I remove some dirty filters out of standard injectors but nothing like this, at least they are intact.
The best injectors I get are the Bosch III & IV and some of the Denso, they get dirty but keep on going and always clean up nice unless there is an internal failure which is rare.
Please don't ask if your car has them, they are common in hundreds of engines over many years. If its Chrysler product I would say probably not, they used Siemens/Deka a lot.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/tech-department-piezo-fuel-injectors-explained
Interesting. I remember when BMW (ex N54, M57) was using piezo back in the mid-2000's for both diesel/petrol but scrapped them for solenoid due to cost and reliability. That being said I heard that piezo would make a comeback as emissions regs became tighter. Perhaps that time is coming.
Q: Could methanol or "cleaner" cause the filter cages to fail?
Great threat Trav !
The move now is to Piezo injectors for DI, I have no idea how they will hold up in everyday use over a long time or many miles, time will tell.
Di is one technology I will stay clear of for now. I remove some dirty filters out of standard injectors but nothing like this, at least they are intact.
The best injectors I get are the Bosch III & IV and some of the Denso, they get dirty but keep on going and always clean up nice unless there is an internal failure which is rare.
Please don't ask if your car has them, they are common in hundreds of engines over many years. If its Chrysler product I would say probably not, they used Siemens/Deka a lot.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/tech-department-piezo-fuel-injectors-explained
Interesting. I remember when BMW (ex N54, M57) was using piezo back in the mid-2000's for both diesel/petrol but scrapped them for solenoid due to cost and reliability. That being said I heard that piezo would make a comeback as emissions regs became tighter. Perhaps that time is coming.
Q: Could methanol or "cleaner" cause the filter cages to fail?
Great threat Trav !
Last edited:
Glad I have no DI engines in my stable
Here they are all done, the came out perfect.
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
Glad I have no DI engines in my stable
I have 2 in my "stable", love them both! No problems at all - except for the Impala, and that is keeping it somewhere close to the speed limit!
Glad I have no DI engines in my stable
I have 2 in my "stable", love them both! No problems at all - except for the Impala, and that is keeping it somewhere close to the speed limit!
They look new!
I like the Teflon Resizing tools Trav, Did you buy or make them yourself? It it's anything like transmission sealing ring resizing tools......It's outrageously expensive for such simple items.
They come from the company who makes the machine. Yes they are big money if you have to buy them separately. I do have a few I made for steering racks and transmissions when I was messing with them more than I do now.
Great job on those injectors.
I notice they were off an '08?
Has anything improved in this regard with newer vehicles?
One of the reasons I went with a RAM 1500 over the F150 was because of DI (or rather, the lack thereof on the 5.7L Hemi!). I always read different opinions of if DI will or will not cause issues in the future, no matter how its setup (i.e. port + DI injection, etc)
I notice they were off an '08?
Has anything improved in this regard with newer vehicles?
One of the reasons I went with a RAM 1500 over the F150 was because of DI (or rather, the lack thereof on the 5.7L Hemi!). I always read different opinions of if DI will or will not cause issues in the future, no matter how its setup (i.e. port + DI injection, etc)
Generally speaking the new ones are no different, this is the price you have to pay for a little better efficiency and slightly better mpg and power.
When you think about the environment they work in and its not surprise they get buggered up, it surprises me they go as long as they do.
When you think about the environment they work in and its not surprise they get buggered up, it surprises me they go as long as they do.
more interesting info!! heard of piezo's but never new the workings + article says they cost about the same but have superior capabilities!! i know girlfriends malibu 2.5 is DI but now wonder what injectors. she has 55 thou on it + except a radiator + the crappy tranny cooler fittings all is well. on the malibu form OE wheel bearings are SHORT lived!!!
- Status
