Has anyone done a dyno run with one of these after market filters vs stock and actually seen an increase in performance with a modern naturally aspirated car?
Direct competitors to K&N?
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Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Has anyone done a dyno run with one of these after market filters vs stock and actually seen an increase in performance with a modern naturally aspirated car?
IMO, any gains seen from an air filter will generally show slightly more Area Under Curve, torque starts to climb a little sooner, peaks around the same or very similar, and hangs on longer before starting to fall.
Peak power numbers are usually the same or very similar, but there is a definite change in the size of the torque curve.
(this assumes some amount of common sense was used during installation - a 'short ram' sitting close to the radiant heat from the exhaust will never help power....similarly the best filter in the world won't make a blind bit of difference if its on the end of 5 feet of tubing that snakes its way round your engine bay. Maximum use of heat insulation, and minimum number of changes of direction for the airflow, FTW!!)
Has anyone done a dyno run with one of these after market filters vs stock and actually seen an increase in performance with a modern naturally aspirated car?
IMO, any gains seen from an air filter will generally show slightly more Area Under Curve, torque starts to climb a little sooner, peaks around the same or very similar, and hangs on longer before starting to fall.
Peak power numbers are usually the same or very similar, but there is a definite change in the size of the torque curve.
(this assumes some amount of common sense was used during installation - a 'short ram' sitting close to the radiant heat from the exhaust will never help power....similarly the best filter in the world won't make a blind bit of difference if its on the end of 5 feet of tubing that snakes its way round your engine bay. Maximum use of heat insulation, and minimum number of changes of direction for the airflow, FTW!!)
Which race teams use R2C? I hadn't heard of them until now and I can't talk badly of them because I have no experience, but, if they're so great why aren't they the industry standard within motorsport?
Originally Posted By: Olas
Which race teams use R2C? I hadn't heard of them until now and I can't talk badly of them because I have no experience, but, if they're so great why aren't they the industry standard within motorsport?
Why does that matter? A product's quality isn't determined by who uses it unless you do not have the ability to analyze it yourself.
They post their specs. Their filters are fantastic.
Which race teams use R2C? I hadn't heard of them until now and I can't talk badly of them because I have no experience, but, if they're so great why aren't they the industry standard within motorsport?
Why does that matter? A product's quality isn't determined by who uses it unless you do not have the ability to analyze it yourself.
They post their specs. Their filters are fantastic.
It doesn't really matter, per se, I just tend to assume that if something is industry-standard in an arena as competitive and high-tech as F1 then it must be the best available.
Those guys have a 40,000,000 annual budget and every 1/1000 counts, so, to my mind they must use the very best available or face losing competitiveness against the entire field who are all using the other product.
But I might be totally wrong and just waffling [censored]. It happens.
Those guys have a 40,000,000 annual budget and every 1/1000 counts, so, to my mind they must use the very best available or face losing competitiveness against the entire field who are all using the other product.
But I might be totally wrong and just waffling [censored]. It happens.
Originally Posted By: Olas
It doesn't really matter, per se, I just tend to assume that if something is industry-standard in an arena as competitive and high-tech as F1 then it must be the best available.
Those guys have a 40,000,000 annual budget and every 1/1000 counts, so, to my mind they must use the very best available or face losing competitiveness against the entire field who are all using the other product.
But I might be totally wrong and just waffling [censored]. It happens.
And a lot of them will run whoever sponsors them because they know that people will buy whatever a certain race team uses regardless of quality.
It doesn't really matter, per se, I just tend to assume that if something is industry-standard in an arena as competitive and high-tech as F1 then it must be the best available.
Those guys have a 40,000,000 annual budget and every 1/1000 counts, so, to my mind they must use the very best available or face losing competitiveness against the entire field who are all using the other product.
But I might be totally wrong and just waffling [censored]. It happens.
And a lot of them will run whoever sponsors them because they know that people will buy whatever a certain race team uses regardless of quality.
I know what you mean about how sponsorship can boost sales, but I'm making reference to the creme de la creme actually USING a product, not just endorsing it.
I go back to my point - If it wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't use it. Would they?
I go back to my point - If it wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't use it. Would they?
I've converted all my vehicles to the AFE ProDry filter.
I like that it's washable, requiring no special "kits" and is oil free.
I like that it's washable, requiring no special "kits" and is oil free.
Originally Posted By: Olas
I know what you mean about how sponsorship can boost sales, but I'm making reference to the creme de la creme actually USING a product, not just endorsing it.
I go back to my point - If it wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't use it. Would they?
F1 is no different than NASCAR or any other racing team. If Mobil is willing to give them free oil, they'll use it. F1 teams spend all their money developing chassis, suspension, telemetry, engines, body panels, etc. Things like filters and oil just don't have the impact.
I know what you mean about how sponsorship can boost sales, but I'm making reference to the creme de la creme actually USING a product, not just endorsing it.
I go back to my point - If it wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't use it. Would they?
F1 is no different than NASCAR or any other racing team. If Mobil is willing to give them free oil, they'll use it. F1 teams spend all their money developing chassis, suspension, telemetry, engines, body panels, etc. Things like filters and oil just don't have the impact.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Olas
I know what you mean about how sponsorship can boost sales, but I'm making reference to the creme de la creme actually USING a product, not just endorsing it.
I go back to my point - If it wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't use it. Would they?
F1 is no different than NASCAR or any other racing team. If Mobil is willing to give them free oil, they'll use it. F1 teams spend all their money developing chassis, suspension, telemetry, engines, body panels, etc. Things like filters and oil just don't have the impact.
The above may be true, BUT, the oil that XOM is 'giving' F1 teams is NOT your on the shelf at Sino Mart 0W-40, or even their on the site 'Racing' 0W-30/50.
It HAS TO BE a specially formulated, esoteric brew made for each engine builders'/manufacturers' specific wants/needs, given the sky high revs (yes, even still with the new rules they are STILL screaming these things out), and now the power density/complexity of turbos and KER systems especially warrant exotic lubricant blends.
Originally Posted By: Olas
I know what you mean about how sponsorship can boost sales, but I'm making reference to the creme de la creme actually USING a product, not just endorsing it.
I go back to my point - If it wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't use it. Would they?
F1 is no different than NASCAR or any other racing team. If Mobil is willing to give them free oil, they'll use it. F1 teams spend all their money developing chassis, suspension, telemetry, engines, body panels, etc. Things like filters and oil just don't have the impact.
The above may be true, BUT, the oil that XOM is 'giving' F1 teams is NOT your on the shelf at Sino Mart 0W-40, or even their on the site 'Racing' 0W-30/50.
It HAS TO BE a specially formulated, esoteric brew made for each engine builders'/manufacturers' specific wants/needs, given the sky high revs (yes, even still with the new rules they are STILL screaming these things out), and now the power density/complexity of turbos and KER systems especially warrant exotic lubricant blends.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
http://www.sbfilters.com/
From what I've read, and having previously used one, these guys make the best reusable high flow filters. They're testing results prove the highest efficiency while not sacrificing airflow; you can look through the cotton gauze and there are no pinholes.
Are these dry, or oiled only??
Oiled only.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
http://www.sbfilters.com/
From what I've read, and having previously used one, these guys make the best reusable high flow filters. They're testing results prove the highest efficiency while not sacrificing airflow; you can look through the cotton gauze and there are no pinholes.
Are these dry, or oiled only??
Oiled only.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
R2C probably makes the best filters you can buy. They even take the time to post their fine dust ISO testing numbers.
You might be correct in that statement, but, they refuse to make OEM replacement, drop in, PANEL style filters due to not being able to increase either the efficiency, or the flow (too much pressure drop new, AND loaded with dust/dirt) with that type of filter.
(I spoke to their lead tech to find out if they plan on producing any OEM panel replacement filters in the future-he said emphatically, "NO!!". Just conicals, round carb circle track/drag racing styles, and some cold air induction systems with conical filyers.
)
R2C probably makes the best filters you can buy. They even take the time to post their fine dust ISO testing numbers.
You might be correct in that statement, but, they refuse to make OEM replacement, drop in, PANEL style filters due to not being able to increase either the efficiency, or the flow (too much pressure drop new, AND loaded with dust/dirt) with that type of filter.
(I spoke to their lead tech to find out if they plan on producing any OEM panel replacement filters in the future-he said emphatically, "NO!!". Just conicals, round carb circle track/drag racing styles, and some cold air induction systems with conical filyers.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
http://www.sbfilters.com/
From what I've read, and having previously used one, these guys make the best reusable high flow filters. They're testing results prove the highest efficiency while not sacrificing airflow; you can look through the cotton gauze and there are no pinholes.
Are these dry, or oiled only??
Oiled only.
they do make a disposable, paper cone style filter too. Don't know how efficient they are though
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
http://www.sbfilters.com/
From what I've read, and having previously used one, these guys make the best reusable high flow filters. They're testing results prove the highest efficiency while not sacrificing airflow; you can look through the cotton gauze and there are no pinholes.
Are these dry, or oiled only??
Oiled only.
they do make a disposable, paper cone style filter too. Don't know how efficient they are though
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: badtlc
R2C probably makes the best filters you can buy. They even take the time to post their fine dust ISO testing numbers.
You might be correct in that statement, but, they refuse to make OEM replacement, drop in, PANEL style filters due to not being able to increase either the efficiency, or the flow (too much pressure drop new, AND loaded with dust/dirt) with that type of filter.
(I spoke to their lead tech to find out if they plan on producing any OEM panel replacement filters in the future-he said emphatically, "NO!!". Just conicals, round carb circle track/drag racing styles, and some cold air induction systems with conical filyers.
)
That is too bad to hear. I have only worked with them on getting custom intake filters. They do great work.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
R2C probably makes the best filters you can buy. They even take the time to post their fine dust ISO testing numbers.
You might be correct in that statement, but, they refuse to make OEM replacement, drop in, PANEL style filters due to not being able to increase either the efficiency, or the flow (too much pressure drop new, AND loaded with dust/dirt) with that type of filter.
(I spoke to their lead tech to find out if they plan on producing any OEM panel replacement filters in the future-he said emphatically, "NO!!". Just conicals, round carb circle track/drag racing styles, and some cold air induction systems with conical filyers.
That is too bad to hear. I have only worked with them on getting custom intake filters. They do great work.
Originally Posted By: Olas
K&N don't filter anything smaller than leaves and twigs - might aswell put some chicken wire over the intake forall the good it'll do.
The company that makes fiters for F1, WRC, BTCC, World Superbikes, Le Mans and the 24hr Daytona Grand Am Champs is called ITG Air Filters - better flow than K&N, better filtration than a factory paper filter.
http://www.itgairfilters.com/
Was curious about the itg filters.
Price for my Jag is £76!
Nearly 100% more than Green Cotton filter or K&N
Not sure if it is worth it.
I can get a quality Mann filter for £7.
Thanks for the info though.
If i have the spare dosh in the near future i might for one.
K&N don't filter anything smaller than leaves and twigs - might aswell put some chicken wire over the intake forall the good it'll do.
The company that makes fiters for F1, WRC, BTCC, World Superbikes, Le Mans and the 24hr Daytona Grand Am Champs is called ITG Air Filters - better flow than K&N, better filtration than a factory paper filter.
http://www.itgairfilters.com/
Was curious about the itg filters.
Price for my Jag is £76!
Nearly 100% more than Green Cotton filter or K&N
Not sure if it is worth it.
I can get a quality Mann filter for £7.
Thanks for the info though.
If i have the spare dosh in the near future i might for one.
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