Differential Fluid for Detriot Truetrac Ford 8.8

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I am getting ready to install a Detriot Truetrac differential with FRPP 4.10 gears. The factory fluid is a Synthetic 75w-140 with 4oz friction modifier. Some have said that I would need to run a thinner gear oil. I have tried to contact Eaton about the gear oil recommendation, they still haven't responded (I guess the holidays). The Truetrac doesn't use clutches, it uses a set of gears to split the torque. I don't think that I would need any sort of friction modifier, but I have heard that it is good for break-in and lowering operating temps. Any recommendation or advice for fluid type or additives would be much appreciated.
 
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At least you dont need friction modifier since there are no clutches. I thing you should run the oil that the open diff or gears requires. Maybe just up it a bit to a GL5 with lots of EP adds
 
I would put in dino for the fist 1200 miles. Then drain and go with Amsoil, RL, or M1 75W140. They won't let you down. You don't need any FM if there are no clutches.
 
What about any moly additive such as the liqui moly product. Should I add any friction modifier for the break-in procedure? I was going to change the oil in the rear at 1500 miles after the break-in. Like I said I haven't been able to contact anyone at Eaton. Thanks
 
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I have tried to get in touch with someone at Eaton but I think they have been closed for the holidays. I have left voicemails and sent emails with no responses.
 
Manufacturer says to use the lube required by the vehicle.
No friction modifier is necessary.

Since you need a 75w140, stick with it in any brand. A early change out of the break-in fluid is also beneficial.
 
Here is the response from Eaton:



Mr. Grant-
"We appreciate your interest in our product.
We recommend that you use any good mineral based multi-weight gear oil. Synthetics are not recommended. While many people have used synthetics in Truetracs without issue, there have been times that synthetics have caused the unit to be very noisy. Additionally, many of our resellers do not recommend synthetics for high performance applications. In fact, most will void their warranty if synthetics are used.
Friction modifier should not be used in a Truetrac as it has no benefit. As for Moly additives, these products are similar to synthetic gear oils and should be avoided with the Truetrac."
 
Quote:
As for Moly additives, these products are similar to synthetic gear oils and should be avoided with the Truetrac

smirk2.gif
You may want to look into another gear set provider.
 
In this case it might be bashing, but in the case of their Eaton Posi (carbon fiber clutch packs) it is not. I have known people who have burned up/destroyed those diffs from using synthetics.
They then could NOT get it warrantied by Eaton because they were expressly told NOT to use synthetic gear oils.

I love/want to use synthetics as much as the next enthusiast. But when I am told with emphasis to NOT use them by a manufacturer, I tend to listen.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
In this case it might be bashing, but in the case of their Eaton Posi (carbon fiber clutch packs) it is not. I have known people who have burned up/destroyed those diffs from using synthetics.
They then could NOT get it warrantied by Eaton because they were expressly told NOT to use synthetic gear oils.


I used to have a 2000 GMC Sierra with the RPO G80 "locking" rear end. It had a centrigugal weight assembly and carbon fibre clutch packs.

The factory fill was a special GM synthetic 75W-90, which at the dealer was something like $28 a litre. Mobil 1 75W-90 worked ok most of the time, but sometimes the rear end slipped/chattered if one wheel was on a slippery surface

I ended up added a tube of CRC Trans-X PosiTrac LSD additive with each gear oil change, that cured the slip/chatter. Oddly enough, dealer and Eaton recommend against using additional LSD additives.
 
Yeah a synthetic gear oil is way better than any conventional gear oil, hands down. I would rather take there recommendation on viscosity.
 
They didn't really explain their reasoning very well. Aside from additive components, I just can't see an inherent downside to something being "synthetic". They just want a blanket statement to cover everyone ..or so I suspect. The TruTrac (I really wish I had spent the coin on one instead of going OEM Dana-Spicer TracLoc) just needs a regular (dino or synthetic) fluid. No friction modifier.
 
Originally Posted By: Jtgrant
I am getting ready to install a Detriot Truetrac differential with FRPP 4.10 gears. The factory fluid is a Synthetic 75w-140 with 4oz friction modifier. Some have said that I would need to run a thinner gear oil. I have tried to contact Eaton about the gear oil recommendation, they still haven't responded (I guess the holidays). The Truetrac doesn't use clutches, it uses a set of gears to split the torque. I don't think that I would need any sort of friction modifier, but I have heard that it is good for break-in and lowering operating temps. Any recommendation or advice for fluid type or additives would be much appreciated.


I'm having a hard time following this thread. They use synthetic gear oil and and friction modifiers in the OEM fill, yet they don't recommend them after break-in? Is this a Torsen LSD? No clutches?
I understand there are two distinct camps when it comes to base oils for gear oils. FWIW, I'm in both camps. 75W90 synthetic in the front diff and transfer case and straight SAE 90 or 110 dino in the rear. To me, this makes the most sense for my situational use, and it's what the manufacturer (Toyota in my case) calls for.
 
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Some of you seem to have missed the point here. The original poster is replacing the factory diff with an aftermarket Truetrac, which has different lube requirements than the factory diff. Eaton had some recommendations specific to their unit and they made them. It wasn't bashing or condemnation of a particular oil, just a recommendation for their unit. Simple.

One reason Eaton does not want synthetics or slippery additives used with the Trutrac is that it affects the bias ratio of the limited slip. The gear type limited slips rely on a certain amount of gear friction to operate. If you reduce friction with various base oils or additives, it reduces the effectiveness of the unit to a degree. I've not heard of any noise issues using synthetics, but the Eaton guy would probably know better than me.

Want to Know More?

The Truetrac has three sets of element gears (a.k.a. pinion gears) in mesh around side gears that are splined to the axle shafts. There may be more or fewer element gears depending on the torque capacity of the unit and the desired bias ratio. Both the side and element gears are helical, though the gears are specially cut to provide more resistance and friction. The element gears are also in mesh with the element gears on the other side.

They operate partly on the one-way worm gear principle, meaning that when they are "powered" from one direction (e.g. the outside wheel speeding up as the car turns) they rotate freely but they resist turning in the other direction (when driven by the ring gear thru the carrier). The other friction comes from the axial thrust of the element gears into the housing. Torque tends to wedge the gears into their pockets and create extra resistance. In both these situations, decreasing friction would tend to decrease the bias ratio of the unit. The friction is carefully calculated and the lubricant is part of that equation.

In use, the gear type limited slips are very smooth and have a generally constant bias ratio, meaning that they do not gain much extra braking force from increases in input torque, as do the plate or cone type limited slip types, but they react faster to changing traction conditions. The clutch type limited slips need a fraction of a second to “ramp up,” i.e. allow the gear separation forces a chance to increase clamping force on the clutch packs beyond the preload. The gear type limited slips also maintain their bias ratios over a longer period. As the clutches wear in plate or cone type limited slips, their bias ratio decreases and they revert back to open diffs. Most plate types are practically open diffs by the time they hit 80K miles. Some go sooner. The bias ratios of gear type limited slips do degrade over time but the drop is very small and very gradual... slow enough that you can call them "life-of-the-car" limited slips.

The side and element gears allow for speed differential in turns, according to the gear ratios of the tooth counts, but do so while applying torque to both tires. This makes them popular on road race courses because they offer a smooth and predictable action. In simple terms, a driver can power through a turn and power out of a turn more aggressively without the danger of losing control.

They are also better in ice than plate type limited slips, because they do not need tire grip in a turn to "break away" the clutch pack to let the unit differentiate in a turn. I have been running a Truetrac in my pickup for a few years now and it's almost seamless, even on ice. In four-wheeling, they can be overcome by wide variances in traction side to side, ore so than a preloaded clutch type LS, but with brake pedal modulation, the bias ratio can be controlled by the driver. Ditto when they are combined with electronic traction control systems that use the ABS brake system.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Some of you seem to have missed the point here. The original poster is replacing the factory diff with an aftermarket Truetrac, which has different lube requirements than the factory diff. Eaton had some recommendations specific to their unit and they made them. It wasn't bashing or condemnation of a particular oil, just a recommendation for their unit. Simple.

One reason Eaton does not want synthetics or slippery additives used with the Trutrac is that it affects the bias ratio of the limited slip. The gear type limited slips rely on a certain amount of gear friction to operate. If you reduce friction with various base oils or additives, it reduces the effectiveness of the unit to a degree. I've not heard of any noise issues using synthetics, but the Eaton guy would probably know better than me.

Want to Know More?

The Truetrac has three sets of element gears (a.k.a. pinion gears) in mesh around side gears that are splined to the axle shafts. There may be more or fewer element gears depending on the torque capacity of the unit and the desired bias ratio. Both the side and element gears are helical, though the gears are specially cut to provide more resistance and friction. The element gears are also in mesh with the element gears on the other side.

They operate partly on the one-way worm gear principle, meaning that when they are "powered" from one direction (e.g. the outside wheel speeding up as the car turns) they rotate freely but they resist turning in the other direction (when driven by the ring gear thru the carrier). The other friction comes from the axial thrust of the element gears into the housing. Torque tends to wedge the gears into their pockets and create extra resistance. In both these situations, decreasing friction would tend to decrease the bias ratio of the unit. The friction is carefully calculated and the lubricant is part of that equation.

In use, the gear type limited slips are very smooth and have a generally constant bias ratio, meaning that they do not gain much extra braking force from increases in input torque, as do the plate or cone type limited slip types, but they react faster to changing traction conditions. The clutch type limited slips need a fraction of a second to “ramp up,” i.e. allow the gear separation forces a chance to increase clamping force on the clutch packs beyond the preload. The gear type limited slips also maintain their bias ratios over a longer period. As the clutches wear in plate or cone type limited slips, their bias ratio decreases and they revert back to open diffs. Most plate types are practically open diffs by the time they hit 80K miles. Some go sooner. The bias ratios of gear type limited slips do degrade over time but the drop is very small and very gradual... slow enough that you can call them "life-of-the-car" limited slips.

The side and element gears allow for speed differential in turns, according to the gear ratios of the tooth counts, but do so while applying torque to both tires. This makes them popular on road race courses because they offer a smooth and predictable action. In simple terms, a driver can power through a turn and power out of a turn more aggressively without the danger of losing control.

They are also better in ice than plate type limited slips, because they do not need tire grip in a turn to "break away" the clutch pack to let the unit differentiate in a turn. I have been running a Truetrac in my pickup for a few years now and it's almost seamless, even on ice. In four-wheeling, they can be overcome by wide variances in traction side to side, ore so than a preloaded clutch type LS, but with brake pedal modulation, the bias ratio can be controlled by the driver. Ditto when they are combined with electronic traction control systems that use the ABS brake system.





Good information to know, since you have the truetrac. What gear oil are you running? How do you feel about synthetics in this differentials? What viscosity should I run? What is a really good dino gear oil? What about semi-blend gear oil?
 
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Quote:
How do you feel about synthetics in this differentials?


That was what I was trying to glean from that entire post (which, iirc, was what the OP wanted to know, as well). I still see no inherent prohibition of the use of synthetics here.

Can we please concede that NO friction modifying additive is ALLOWED in this differential and move on to why Eaton would say NO to synthetics ...or is that in limbo "take their word for it"??

55.gif
 
Gary: Re-read my post. Syns are inherently slippery-er and therefore can effect the bias ratio (reducing it). The e-mail reply from Eaton above also talks of noise, but I can't see why that could happen. I was told by an Eaton rep specifically to avoid syns because the unit was designed for conventional oil but our discussion was mainly involved with maintaining the designed bias ratio. Frankly, I can't think of exactly why you COULDN'T use a synthetic, but I have an inside contact there and will ask him posthaste and get back with you.

Jtgrant: I use LE 607 (Lubrication Engineers) in my Truetrac. It's a straight SAE 90. To be honest, I wouldn't be afraid to run a good synthetic multigrade in mine, but I got a bunch of LE607 to test and it was better than Amsoil by a few degrees in reducing axle temps under load. It's probably less than steller in the winter temps I use it in (pour point -11) but in three years, I have no indication of any trouble. It seldom gets below zero in my part of Ohio and when it does, the truck and I are generally inside! When I run out of LE, I will probably switch to a syn,
 
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