Different oil brand impacts BMW vanos funcionality?

[tonci68]

Dear Bob,

After rebuilt of BMW M54B30 engine, I am facing issue with rough idle during cold start which appears after 20-30s which might align with timing once vanos get loaded with oil pressure and starts to move towards advance or retard timing. Once engine warms up a minute later shaking slowly dissapear and does not come back till next cold start.Those problems I never had before engine rebuilt and meantime, I checked all possible causes regarded to air leak, fuel supply, ignition, etc so my focus remained towards vanos and oil. BMW DIS diagnostic indicates error with both camshaft (intake and exhaust) positions which deviated app 2 degrees out of limits (-5 to+5 deg).
Now, my question to you is related to oil which I started to use after rebuilt and potential issue of oil characteristics that may affect vanos functionality. So after rebuilt, I am using Motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 5W-40. My engine is manufactured in Aug-2000 (EU) so BMW LL-98 should be enough as next BMW specification came as LL-01. From my database Motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 meets BMW LL-01 however, I have no sufficient background to evaluate viscosity or other oil performance to see if they could cause an issue if we compare them to Castrol or Shell which was initially suggested as alternative to original BMW oil. At the, end there is also info about BMW DIS diagnostic tool results which measure response of vanos movements from advance to retarded position and should be less than 1000ms. Both vanos ((exh, int) pass those tests without issue.
Thanks for your response.

 

[kschachn]

No.

 

[scrllock]

The only time I have ever seen a cam timing fault due to oil, it was while using a cheap API, non-Euro oil well past due for a change. Any LL-01 will be fine.

 

[Patman]

Bob’s not here

 

[dnewton3]

The issues you're having are not related to the oil you're using.
Seek the root cause elsewhere.

 

[edyvw]

Dear Bob,

After rebuilt of BMW M54B30 engine, I am facing issue with rough idle during cold start which appears after 20-30s which might align with timing once vanos get loaded with oil pressure and starts to move towards advance or retard timing. Once engine warms up a minute later shaking slowly dissapear and does not come back till next cold start.Those problems I never had before engine rebuilt and meantime, I checked all possible causes regarded to air leak, fuel supply, ignition, etc so my focus remained towards vanos and oil. BMW DIS diagnostic indicates error with both camshaft (intake and exhaust) positions which deviated app 2 degrees out of limits (-5 to+5 deg).
Now, my question to you is related to oil which I started to use after rebuilt and potential issue of oil characteristics that may affect vanos functionality. So after rebuilt, I am using Motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 5W-40. My engine is manufactured in Aug-2000 (EU) so BMW LL-98 should be enough as next BMW specification came as LL-01. From my database Motul 8100 X-CESS GEN2 meets BMW LL-01 however, I have no sufficient background to evaluate viscosity or other oil performance to see if they could cause an issue if we compare them to Castrol or Shell which was initially suggested as alternative to original BMW oil. At the, end there is also info about BMW DIS diagnostic tool results which measure response of vanos movements from advance to retarded position and should be less than 1000ms. Both vanos ((exh, int) pass those tests without issue.
Thanks for your response.

It is not oil. But do your due diligence and check filter and all gaskets on the cage. What filter did you use?

 

[tonci68]

It is not oil. But do your due diligence and check filter and all gaskets on the cage. What filter did you use?

Usually Mahle. I am in Europe so Mahle is reliable german supplier. However, I intent to check filter cage and seals as pressure in filter cage impacts vanos functionality.

 

[edyvw]

Usually Mahle. I am in Europe so Mahle is reliable german supplier. However, I intent to check filter cage and seals as pressure in filter cage impacts vanos functionality.

Yeah. If something is not installed properly or you forgot some O ring, it will mess it up.

 

[CleanSump]

Did you install new anti-drainback valves when you rebuilt the engine? Are the VANOS seals new?

BMW DIS diagnostic indicates error with both camshaft (intake and exhaust) positions which deviated app 2 degrees out of limits (-5 to+5 deg).

Go farther as to why this is occurring.
Go to Bimmer forums. They can guide you with your specific problem. The problem isn't oil.

 

[Marcozi]

Try E46 Fanatics. Great source of knowledge on the E46 (1998 to 2006 BMW 3 series). I don't think you can monitor oil pressure on the non-M3 E46. BTW, I owned a 2001 330Ci for 17 years. Improper oil pressure could be an issue.

 

[svenson]

if you go off the suggested approval grade - hths might have a problem with vanos,thats what my mechanic said.brand has nothing to do with.

 

[kschachn]

if you go off the suggested approval grade - hths might have a problem with vanos,thats what my mechanic said.brand has nothing to do with.

How far off?

 

[edyvw]

if you go off the suggested approval grade - hths might have a problem with vanos,thats what my mechanic said.brand has nothing to do with.

And people run 10W50 etc on track all the time with no problems.

 

[chris719]

M54 vanos is not complicated it will work with any oil that is suitable for your car, including every LL-01 oil in the world.

 

[svenson]

M54 vanos is not complicated it will work with any oil that is suitable for your car, including every LL-01 oil in the world.

i am just quoting what he said ,to have other opinions here about that. as much as he has some good reputation ,i dont accept everything he says.

 

[Marcozi]

I owned a 2001 BMW 330Ci. Except for the oil burning, the M54 is a great engine. It should be fed a constant diet of LL01 oil along with an oil filter made by either MANN or Hengst. Substituting an aftermarket oil filter for one from a supplier to BMW is, IMHO, foolhardy. As far as the VANOS, I never touched either VANOS solenoid for more than 17 years and a ton of miles.

 

[OVERKILL]

i am just quoting what he said ,to have other opinions here about that. as much as he has some good reputation ,i dont accept everything he says.

BMW has recommended both LL-01 5W-30 and TWS 10W-60 for the exact same VANOS system (S62). It's really not sensitive to viscosity.

 

[chris719]

BMW has recommended both LL-01 5W-30 and TWS 10W-60 for the exact same VANOS system (S62). It's really not sensitive to viscosity.

And that’s the much more complex high pressure VANOS design. Closer to S54 than M54.

 

[UCN195]

This is a shot in the dark as I’ve never owned an M54 and have no real experience with them, but I know on the N52s you could easily clean and then swap the intake and exhaust VANOS solenoids if they were misbehaving. I did this in a pinch on an N52 I had that was doing the same thing as your M54, and to my surprise it fixed it. Of course if they were replaced during the rebuild it seems unlikely. Just something to look into.

 

[CleanSump]

This is a shot in the dark as I’ve never owned an M54 and have no real experience with them, but I know on the N52s you could easily clean and then swap the intake and exhaust VANOS solenoids if they were misbehaving. I did this in a pinch on an N52 I had that was doing the same thing as your M54, and to my surprise it fixed it. Of course if they were replaced during the rebuild it seems unlikely. Just something to look into.

That's a typical test if one gets a code on either the intake or exhaust cams or VANOS, swap them around and see the code moves with the solenoid.