Diesel Oils in Water Cooled gasoline Engines

[n5ifi]

I'm told by a lubrication specialist that automotive Gasoline Motors can't get hot enough to activate the additive package in an automotive application. Is this true?

This person also says that I need to wait for 50000 miles to switch synthetic oils.

 

[D-Roc]

Sounds interesting...I'm curious as well.

 

[sunfire]

Did he say anything about diesel oils not being compatible with oil filters designed for passenger cars?

 

[XS650]

The real problem is that the radius on HDEO molecules is bigger and they won't go around the smaller bearings in passenger car engines without fatiguing and breaking down.

Where did you meet that "specialist", in a Jiffy Lube pit?

 

[n5ifi]

Interesting
So your saying that shear is the biggest problem?
I've always used synthetics in all my vehicles.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: n5ifi
Interesting
So your saying that shear is the biggest problem?


No, I'm saying that your source was ill-informed.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: n5ifi
Interesting
So your saying that shear is the biggest problem?


No, I'm saying that your source was ill-informed.

 

[pickled]

I've heard that thread of heat related activation before. It's not like it's rocket fuel...it's freaking oil people ***?!?!

 

[Drivebelt]

Quote:
I'm told by a lubrication specialist that automotive Gasoline Motors can't get hot enough to activate the additive package in an automotive application. Is this true?
No.

Quote:
This person also says that I need to wait for 50000 miles to switch synthetic oils.

No. You can start to use synthetic anytime.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: n5ifi
I'm told by a lubrication specialist that automotive Gasoline Motors can't get hot enough to activate the additive package in an automotive application. Is this true?

This person also says that I need to wait for 50000 miles to switch synthetic oils.
Also most of the time your back tires are going forward. I would get a new specialist.

 

[n5ifi]

I was really looking for post with substance in them. I appreciate all posts but I told this guy I would post his statement on the forum and see what the "experts" thought. So far I've only goten a bunch of smart [censored] post with zero substance. Believe me......I can take care of the smart [censored] part myself. I'm looking for REAL answers as to why what he said is not true.
He will not put synthetic oils in his vehicles until 50000 miles because he says they are not broken in until that point. I disagree with that statement and I don't think synthetic oils would have much to do with break in (might slow it some). He says that diesel oil in a water cooled automotive engine (i.e.small block chevy) is not good because those motors don't get hot enough to activate the additive package. I want to know why this wrong. If you have a real answer then please poist it so I can bust this guy tonight on the air.

 

[XS650]

Your "lubrication specialist" is the one that made the extraordinary claim, it's up to him to support it.

For the 50,000 mile claim, take a look at the hundreds of thousands of cars that have left the factory with synthetic oil, perform well and last a long time with no break-inn problems. Take a look through the UOA files on BITOG to get an idea when engines are broken in. Hint...It's well before 50,000 miles.

 

[Steve S]

The additives in heavy duty engine oils are the same as in gas oils just higher amounts as the oils are made for the hardest commercial use. Diesel engines run cooler in general as compared to gas engines.

 

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted By: n5ifi
I was really looking for post with substance in them. I appreciate all posts but I told this guy I would post his statement on the forum and see what the "experts" thought. So far I've only goten a bunch of smart [censored] post with zero substance. Believe me......I can take care of the smart [censored] part myself. I'm looking for REAL answers as to why what he said is not true.
He will not put synthetic oils in his vehicles until 50000 miles because he says they are not broken in until that point. I disagree with that statement and I don't think synthetic oils would have much to do with break in (might slow it some). He says that diesel oil in a water cooled automotive engine (i.e.small block chevy) is not good because those motors don't get hot enough to activate the additive package. I want to know why this wrong. If you have a real answer then please poist it so I can bust this guy tonight on the air.


I'm not trying to provoke anything here, and I don't think any of the other members are either, but you mention him as a "lubrication specialist". Now, quite often these days this title can have less than the expected result...(IE guys who work at jiffy lube) - just an example...
Does this guy have any training in regards to lubrication? Is he an engineer? Any post secondary or other training in relation? Or maybe a Mechanic, heavy or auto with years of experience seeing equipment and how lubrication impacts it. Significant work experience in a machinery related field?
I'm just trying to get an idea about where his comment comes from, it does sound a little far out.

 

[n5ifi]

Yes, I'm sorry I should have told you more about him.
He says that he spent years in school for the company that he used to work for. He is retired now. He was a "Lubrication Specialist for them"
He said the company had over a thousand employees. I think some companys call them oil and greasers and he was the Manager over that group.

As for me, I know little in comparison to most around here about oils and oil properties in general but I've raced cars for many years and always built my own engines, transmissions and rearends etc.etc. so I do have an extensive automotive background.
This is what I always thought too Steve.


Steve
"The additives in heavy duty engine oils are the same as in gas oils just higher amounts as the oils are made for the hardest commercial use. Diesel engines run cooler in general as compared to gas engines."

 

[jmac]

The diesel engine running hotter/cooler thing has been discussed here before, people still go around saying that they run cooler.
Same size c.i. capacity diesel engine compared to a gas engine has at least double the cooling system capacity and between 1.5 -3 times the sump capacity to handle the extra heat rejection that it must do, as well as at least twice the mass, that mass isn't there just to handle torque, all of that is to handle one thing, extra heat. Diesels do not run cooler.
The only time one could say or may get the impression that they run cooler is at idle and low load conditions. Then you are not puttng in enough fuel to to get the system up to capacity and it can be cooler than a gas engine at idle. Start working it, and it does get hotter.

 

[D-Roc]

The statement made by your friend just doesn't sound right...possibly he may have been referring to an oil like Quaker state Q which claims it is heat activated? Wasn't there another oil out there as well which made a similar claim?
Is it possible this is what he meant?

 

[n5ifi]

I don't think so. He was talking about Hdeo oil such Mobile Delvac or Shell Rotella for truck applications/18 wheeler/big rig/etc/etc.

It's been a while for sure since he's been to school. Were oils once this way (ie.)needing heat to activate the package?

 

[OVERKILL]

I think this should answer it:

Question:
Mobil 1 vs. Mobil Delvac 1 for a Gasoline Engine
I have read on the Internet that Mobil Delvac 1 oils may provide better performance in high-performance passenger-car engines than regular Mobil 1, since they meet CF-4 specs. What about using Delvac in gasoline engines, especially high-performance engines?
-- "Tribological", Richmond, VA
Answer:
Mobil 1 formulas will deliver everything you need for your gasoline engine. In fact, during development, tests are run in both gasoline and diesel engines to demonstrate the outstanding performance of Mobil 1.

Mobil Delvac 1 ESP, which is designed for heavy-duty diesels, meets most diesel engine oil specifications, and also meets API SM certification. And because Mobil Delvac 1 ESP operates in a different environment – diesel engines run longer, generate soot and run hotter, it contains different types and amounts of additives than Mobil 1. Even so, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP still meets API SM certification for gasoline engines, and because of its high performance, we would expect it to do a good job of protecting your gasoline engine.

If you use your gasoline vehicle in "heavy-duty" service, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP will provide many benefits compared to conventional oils. When compared to Mobil 1 performance, those benefits may not be as obvious, and in fact, Mobil 1 would be expected to outperform Mobil Delvac 1 in many gasoline applications. (Updated April 2008)

 

[Steve S]

Certain additives do require heat.