Jet fuels have static dissipation and anti-ice additives which cause deposits in diesel fuel systems. Don’t use them in a diesel unless it’s life or death.
Diesel - How long can I actually store it?
- Thread starter SupremePossum
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Jet-A is really only a problem if "Prist" additive is requested, it will not be added unless requested, due to the above mentioned downsides that can also affect aircraft. Otherwise Jet-A is a very pure and pretty much an unadulterated Kerosene product. The static dissipator "statis 450" is the very same one used in diesel fuels, gasoline, kerosene and just about every other fuel everywhere.
Just an FYI on Prist. It is an expensive anti icing additive (Diethylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether) that is used typically on turboprops and smaller Jet-A burning aircraft, to prevent fuel starvation due to ice. It is not commonly used on larger jets that operate in much colder environments, as larger jets have systems that heat the fuel, along with some aerodynamic heating of the wings at higher Mach numbers (above about M0.8) we can see this on the fuel tank temp indications, which can be well above the outside temps of -70ºF. It is not unusual to see 55ºC engine fuel temps on the Gulfstream G600 with outside temps well below 0º.
For about 2 decades now, we've operated a wide range of diesel engines on Jet-A. Knowing the lubricity was lower than #2 Diesel, we tested various additives and samples. Additives such as Marvel Mystery Oil and Automatic Transmission Fluid had already been tested and shown to be poor choices. So we concentrated on what worked. Stanadyne Lubricity Additive and TCW3 Two stroke oils.
HFRR (high frequency reciprocating rig, the standard for injection system lubricity) results, smaller wear scar is better (by memory):
Jet-A without Prist or other additives, as high as 650µm, well above the 450 limit here in the USA and the 520µm Euro limit for #2 Diesel
Pump #2 Diesel About 300-350µm
Jet-A with 100 to 1 TCW3 and Stanadyne Lubricity additive 255µm
In the end, it was the TCW3, even at 200 to 1 provided the lubrication necessary to bring Jet-A down to a superb level.
NOTE: I'm not claiming Jet-A is the correct answer for you. I don't know your setup, engine type or emission controls. I will state that Jet-A is very stable and 'could' be an option for those needing a long storage life fuel. Store it without additives and it will last a very long time.
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Jet A is not diesel fuel. It is middle distillate like MANY varying products that are similar-- F76, JP8, MDO, Kerosene, etc.
Use diesel fuels (EN590 or ASTM D975) only in diesel engines. Every other distillate should be considered contingency only.
Use diesel fuels (EN590 or ASTM D975) only in diesel engines. Every other distillate should be considered contingency only.
I've used diesel that was over 10 years old.
My Wife's Uncle passed away and he had diesel stored in a metal drum, no one in the family has anything that is diesel except my tractor. I drew some out and let it sit for a day or so, looked and smelled fine so I ran it in the tractor and all was fine.
My Wife's Uncle passed away and he had diesel stored in a metal drum, no one in the family has anything that is diesel except my tractor. I drew some out and let it sit for a day or so, looked and smelled fine so I ran it in the tractor and all was fine.
R99 is NOT biodiesel. Biofuels are methyl ester derived.
So-called "renewable" fuels are paraffinic fuels that may be derived from any source that can be chemically processed into a paraffin. Neste was the leading developer of this technology from a Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (HVO).
HVO/R99 fuels are something like an "ultimate diesel fuel" in that they have very good lubricity, high cetane, and very good combustion properties, and will reduce NOx and PM just by switching fuels. There are really only two downsides to R99/HVO type of fuels: 1) lower energy density, and 2) low solvency.
The lower density just lowers power and can be offset if the engine is calibrated for that reduced density. The lower solvency is a problem if R99 is used as the basis for a biofuel blend. Normal B20 is 80% petrodiesel, which has enough light aromatics to help suppress deposits in ME-type fuels for a time. Replacing that 80% petrodiesel with an R99, making a sort of B20/R79 fuel (not really, let's just round the numbers) means you end up with ZERO aromatic content.
This creates poor solvency and in our testing thus far has been a disaster for low-use applications like standby generators. If you want to stick actuators and injectors, by all means use an R99 base biofuel blend.
Use straight R99 with confidence, just keep all biofuel content away from it. It's a good idea to periodically run some petrodiesel through the engine where it's feasible to do so.
The ASTM D975 HFRR limit is 520. EN590 is more stringent at 460.
Some aviation fuels (NATO F76, for example) can demonstrate HFRRs well over 850 and still be "in spec."
You are losing the original point: aviation fuels are not diesel fuels. Just because you can dope aviation fuel to "make it work" doesn't mean it's diesel fuel.
You can make a regular engine run on motorcycle oil. And I'm sure one could do it for many years and "never have a problem."
But this is obviously flawed logic.
There's a reason a generator's emergency-stop is not the normal shutdown. They will both shut down the engine. And I'm sure there are many cases where e-stop is abusively used as a the primary shutdown and the unit is surviving just fine.
But what *can* be done and what *should* be done are very different things. @Cujet has an interest in allowing all his AGE to use the fuel already at hand in an aviation environment, and this justifies the testing and additizing necessary to allow this to work.
But it's terrible advice as a standard practice outside his peculiar situation.
Any of you vets know what the guidelines are from the US Army?
Guidelines for storage or using jet fuel in diesel equipment? No clue what those army boys do/did. Every diesel engine we(AF) used in Iraq ran on JP8 without any additives.
OP-I dont know when modern diesel started. The 2014 diesel in my truck worked just fine when I fired it up in 2019.
OP-I dont know when modern diesel started. The 2014 diesel in my truck worked just fine when I fired it up in 2019.
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Most recommended practices are going to come back to 12 months - use stabilizer - sealed containers - in the shade etc … nobody wants to own someone else’s problem. If you don’t have a Farmer friend - some fire fighter schools take old fuel.
Here we are running 2 Mercedes diesel taxi cab engines on Jet-A in the aircraft pictured, without additives. Heck, our lives depend on those engines working properly.
I'm not going to disagree with Hohn, clearly he has expertise in a field I don't. I do not work heavy equipment or aviation ground equipment. That is a field I know nothing about. I do know Jet-A makes a very clean, long lasting diesel fuel and is in regular use as such.
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That's partly because JP-8 already has some lubricity enhancers added as well as allowing higher sulfur content to begin with, so the parent lubricity of the distillate fuel is already higher than ULSD diesel fuel. JP-8 is allowed 3000ppm sulfur per MIL-DTL-83133J. So even without the JP8 doping package (corrosion inhibitor, lubricity enhancer, etc) the parent distllate fuel is higher lubricity than anything regular S15 ULSD would have without additizing. Even "cleaner" JP8 is still well over 500ppm sulfur, which is the "low sulfur" (LSD) limit in D975.
It wasn't until ULSD (15ppm) and the more demanding refining associated with it came in that lubricity got added to D975 with the 1 Jan 2005 revision. It wasn't necessary before that.
No surprise that the Bear generators run fine on JP8. We had them in Oman when I was deployed there. (Air Force 21R3 Logistics Readiness Officer).
5% is pretty standard & some laws require it to be posted if it's over 5%. That's where you get into 15%-20% Bio-Diesel fuel. The pump should state that if it's at that ratio. Some states like MN have pushed bio for long time.
That explains why my NA 6.9L mechanical diesel is even more gutless than ever on the r99 fuel. Truck was already underpowered and it's plain miserable to drive now.
Yes, R99 is about an 8%-12% power loss just though density reduction. It's enough to notice it for most people. It's slightly worse than the transition from, say #2 diesel to #1 Diesel (kerosene).
While in theory it can deliver better economy owing to the higher cetane, engines are generally tuned for petrodiesel (so no calibration benefit there) and real-world users will give it more throttle to try to offset the power loss.
Net/net its also a fuel economy loss, sometimes enough to completely wipe out the emissions benefits.
But nobody said rule makers were particularly clever.
I don't have anything that operates on diesel but my dad's 1980 Case Tractor starts up whenever we need to use it. The diesel that is in there is 3-5 years old. Sits outdoors in the MA summers and winters. At some point we'll re-fuel it with the 5 gallon can that has been sitting in his garage for 1-2 years.
Put some diesel specific fuel stabilizer in there and don't worry about it. Maybe just put 5 gallons in there and in the event of an extended power outage go fill up the other Jerry cans. And make sure to add some stabilizer to it in case you don't use it all.
A water separator would be a good investment. That is the only thing that would worry me.
Put some diesel specific fuel stabilizer in there and don't worry about it. Maybe just put 5 gallons in there and in the event of an extended power outage go fill up the other Jerry cans. And make sure to add some stabilizer to it in case you don't use it all.
A water separator would be a good investment. That is the only thing that would worry me.
IMO fill your can's with regular diesel (yes B5) and store it for as long as you need. Make sure your genset has a good fuel filtering system with a water separator on it and motor on. I would make sure you have a spare set of fuel filter s on hand and not worry about anything else. Diesel is way different than gasoline in many respects and storage is no different. FWIW, diesel is more like oil than gasoline.
Biofuels even in low blend ratios can cause actuator sticking.
We have a manufacturing plant that was using B7. Engines would arrive and fail production test once built into equipment. The actuators on the fuel pumps were sticking from the b7 residue left in place a few months.
If you need equipment to be reliable after prolonged inactivity, it needs to have no biofuel residue. Flush with b0 before shutdown and storage.
So would simply running it once per month solve that problem?
It helps. Biofuels deposits are mostly a function of time, temperature, and oxygen exposure. Moisture exacerbates the problems, too.
Monthly exercise may not assure reliability, but it’s far more likely to at least reveal an issue before it’s too late to prevent it.
So if E10 gas in a gasoline generator is just fine at 6 months, how long are we talking for B5? Do you think 1 year is a good timeframe, potentially longer?
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