Lol I drive 60 miles a day, and in the morning in rush hour traffic, stop and go part of it. With a 6 speed automatic. That's more shifting. Transmissions do this thing, it's called shifting. It's kind of what they were made for
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Did I just shave years off my transmissions life?
- Thread starter Carnoobie
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Artem
What was the point of this testing?
If you were shifting properly, you probably shaved 30 seconds off of your transmission's life.
+1
+2
Originally Posted By: Artem
What was the point of this testing?
If you were shifting properly, you probably shaved 30 seconds off of your transmission's life.
+1
+2
Wonder how much life I've shaved off the the transmission in my '88 T-Bird that has approx 700 drag strip passes(some with nitrous) shifting at 6000+ RPMs?? After this thread I ain't gonna be able to sleep...
BTW the Marauder shifts at 6000+ RPM as well and makes around 525Hp at the crank, I'll have to die to ever be able to close my eyes again...
BTW the Marauder shifts at 6000+ RPM as well and makes around 525Hp at the crank, I'll have to die to ever be able to close my eyes again...
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
A firmer shift on an auto trans is better for it then a sloppy shift. I wouldn't worry about doing damage with the little bit of stop and go that you did.
This is an old wives tale that still persists through mindless repetition.
Correctly stated: A QUICK shift is better than a SLOW shift for MANY automatic transmissions.
Quick doesn't have to be hard.
A firmer shift on an auto trans is better for it then a sloppy shift. I wouldn't worry about doing damage with the little bit of stop and go that you did.
This is an old wives tale that still persists through mindless repetition.
Correctly stated: A QUICK shift is better than a SLOW shift for MANY automatic transmissions.
Quick doesn't have to be hard.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Well in traffic or alot of roads under 60km/h i actually keep my car in D3. Cause its pointless when i can easily hit 60km/h while in third in D3. Less shifting = less heat = happier trans. Same with going up hills, I put in D3 to keep it in third and prevent it from having to downshift from 4th to 3rd then back to 4th (which creates a ton of heat), and D3 has bit more torque and power to get up hills.
How old is your car? Most I've driven in recent years are all smart enough to realize after a few OD to 3rd shifts that it should stay in 3rd. My wife's 03 Escape is that way - go up a hill and it if it hunts for a few shifts it will stay in the lower gear until you really let off the throttle.
Keep your fluids changed every 30k or so and don't sweat it.
10yrs its ancient.
I change my ATF every 6 months but thinking about doing it every 3 months. Its a major pain in the [censored] to get the bolt off cause the longer you wait, the harder it is to get the bolt off cause it tightens. I just tried doing a drain and fill and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I spent 20mins trying to get the bolt loose and its on so tight. Even though when i put them back on I dont overtighten them.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
A firmer shift on an auto trans is better for it then a sloppy shift. I wouldn't worry about doing damage with the little bit of stop and go that you did.
This is an old wives tale that still persists through mindless repetition.
Correctly stated: A QUICK shift is better than a SLOW shift for MANY automatic transmissions.
Quick doesn't have to be hard.
You think its a myth that a firmer hard shift is better than a soft mushy shift? Soft mushy shifts put a lot more wear on the clutch pack cause it burns it and creates a ton more heat than a firm one.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Well in traffic or alot of roads under 60km/h i actually keep my car in D3. Cause its pointless when i can easily hit 60km/h while in third in D3. Less shifting = less heat = happier trans. Same with going up hills, I put in D3 to keep it in third and prevent it from having to downshift from 4th to 3rd then back to 4th (which creates a ton of heat), and D3 has bit more torque and power to get up hills.
How old is your car? Most I've driven in recent years are all smart enough to realize after a few OD to 3rd shifts that it should stay in 3rd. My wife's 03 Escape is that way - go up a hill and it if it hunts for a few shifts it will stay in the lower gear until you really let off the throttle.
Keep your fluids changed every 30k or so and don't sweat it.
10yrs its ancient.
I change my ATF every 6 months but thinking about doing it every 3 months. Its a major pain in the [censored] to get the bolt off cause the longer you wait, the harder it is to get the bolt off cause it tightens. I just tried doing a drain and fill and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I spent 20mins trying to get the bolt loose and its on so tight. Even though when i put them back on I dont overtighten them.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Blkstanger
A firmer shift on an auto trans is better for it then a sloppy shift. I wouldn't worry about doing damage with the little bit of stop and go that you did.
This is an old wives tale that still persists through mindless repetition.
Correctly stated: A QUICK shift is better than a SLOW shift for MANY automatic transmissions.
Quick doesn't have to be hard.
You think its a myth that a firmer hard shift is better than a soft mushy shift? Soft mushy shifts put a lot more wear on the clutch pack cause it burns it and creates a ton more heat than a firm one.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I put in D3 to keep it in third and prevent it from having to downshift from 4th to 3rd then back to 4th (which creates a ton of heat), and D3 has bit more torque and power to get up hills.
Holding the transmission in a lower gear forces the engine to rev higher.
You do realize that in the act of trying to save your transmission you're shortening the life of your engine and wasting gas?
I put in D3 to keep it in third and prevent it from having to downshift from 4th to 3rd then back to 4th (which creates a ton of heat), and D3 has bit more torque and power to get up hills.
Holding the transmission in a lower gear forces the engine to rev higher.
You do realize that in the act of trying to save your transmission you're shortening the life of your engine and wasting gas?
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I change my ATF every 6 months but thinking about doing it every 3 months. Its a major pain in the [censored] to get the bolt off cause the longer you wait, the harder it is to get the bolt off cause it tightens. I just tried doing a drain and fill and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I spent 20mins trying to get the bolt loose and its on so tight. Even though when i put them back on I dont overtighten them.
How do you know you "dont overtighten them"? Are you using a torque wrench?
Going from memory, your drain bolt takes something like 30 or 36 ft/lbs of torque, a setting that should allow the bolt to crack loose very easily with an ordinary ratchet.
I change my ATF every 6 months but thinking about doing it every 3 months. Its a major pain in the [censored] to get the bolt off cause the longer you wait, the harder it is to get the bolt off cause it tightens. I just tried doing a drain and fill and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I spent 20mins trying to get the bolt loose and its on so tight. Even though when i put them back on I dont overtighten them.
How do you know you "dont overtighten them"? Are you using a torque wrench?
Going from memory, your drain bolt takes something like 30 or 36 ft/lbs of torque, a setting that should allow the bolt to crack loose very easily with an ordinary ratchet.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I put in D3 to keep it in third and prevent it from having to downshift from 4th to 3rd then back to 4th (which creates a ton of heat), and D3 has bit more torque and power to get up hills.
Holding the transmission in a lower gear forces the engine to rev higher.
You do realize that in the act of trying to save your transmission you're shortening the life of your engine and wasting gas?
I know it puts more wear on the engine but i was told its very minimal cause from what i notice it only spins 1000rpms higher than normal while in 3rd doing about 50-60kmh. From what i notice while in 3rd in D3 is the only time the engine revs higher compared to it in D. For example doing 50km/h in D will be around 1500rpms with normal driving while in D3 it would be 2500rpms. Then when i put it into D it goes back to around 1500rpms at normal driving.
Wasting gas i havent noticed anything. Been monitoring and only times you consume more fuel is if you go above 70kmh in 3rd in D3 but i never do cause i put it into OD by the time I hit 60km/h.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I change my ATF every 6 months but thinking about doing it every 3 months. Its a major pain in the [censored] to get the bolt off cause the longer you wait, the harder it is to get the bolt off cause it tightens. I just tried doing a drain and fill and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I spent 20mins trying to get the bolt loose and its on so tight. Even though when i put them back on I dont overtighten them.
How do you know you "dont overtighten them"? Are you using a torque wrench?
Going from memory, your drain bolt takes something like 30 or 36 ft/lbs of torque, a setting that should allow the bolt to crack loose very easily with an ordinary ratchet.
I got it figured out i realized i was trying to undo the wrong bolt. Good thing it didnt come off. But im going to wait til i receive the bottle of lubegard red first before i do this ATF drain and fill then i dont have to bother draining some when i get it.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I put in D3 to keep it in third and prevent it from having to downshift from 4th to 3rd then back to 4th (which creates a ton of heat), and D3 has bit more torque and power to get up hills.
Holding the transmission in a lower gear forces the engine to rev higher.
You do realize that in the act of trying to save your transmission you're shortening the life of your engine and wasting gas?
I know it puts more wear on the engine but i was told its very minimal cause from what i notice it only spins 1000rpms higher than normal while in 3rd doing about 50-60kmh. From what i notice while in 3rd in D3 is the only time the engine revs higher compared to it in D. For example doing 50km/h in D will be around 1500rpms with normal driving while in D3 it would be 2500rpms. Then when i put it into D it goes back to around 1500rpms at normal driving.
Wasting gas i havent noticed anything. Been monitoring and only times you consume more fuel is if you go above 70kmh in 3rd in D3 but i never do cause i put it into OD by the time I hit 60km/h.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I change my ATF every 6 months but thinking about doing it every 3 months. Its a major pain in the [censored] to get the bolt off cause the longer you wait, the harder it is to get the bolt off cause it tightens. I just tried doing a drain and fill and HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I spent 20mins trying to get the bolt loose and its on so tight. Even though when i put them back on I dont overtighten them.
How do you know you "dont overtighten them"? Are you using a torque wrench?
Going from memory, your drain bolt takes something like 30 or 36 ft/lbs of torque, a setting that should allow the bolt to crack loose very easily with an ordinary ratchet.
I got it figured out i realized i was trying to undo the wrong bolt. Good thing it didnt come off. But im going to wait til i receive the bottle of lubegard red first before i do this ATF drain and fill then i dont have to bother draining some when i get it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I know it puts more wear on the engine but i was told its very minimal cause from what i notice it only spins 1000rpms higher than normal while in 3rd doing about 50-60kmh.
"Only" 1000rpm? That's about 60% higher. That's almost two-thirds more wear, which is not "minimal" at all.
And, if I were you, I'd skip that LubeGard thing. Up to the '05 model year, Honda had terrible problems with many models' automatic transmissions. It cost them millions in warranty claims, and untold amounts of reputation-damage. At great expense and effort, Honda has since fixed this, and now makes what are probably the most reliable automatics on the market. It's pretty safe to say that Honda knows exactly what makes their transmissions work well, and what does not.
It is unwise to use anything but genuine-Honda ATF-DW1 in your Honda automatic, and you should definitely stay away from any and all additives; Honda takes a dim view of additives.
I know it puts more wear on the engine but i was told its very minimal cause from what i notice it only spins 1000rpms higher than normal while in 3rd doing about 50-60kmh.
"Only" 1000rpm? That's about 60% higher. That's almost two-thirds more wear, which is not "minimal" at all.
And, if I were you, I'd skip that LubeGard thing. Up to the '05 model year, Honda had terrible problems with many models' automatic transmissions. It cost them millions in warranty claims, and untold amounts of reputation-damage. At great expense and effort, Honda has since fixed this, and now makes what are probably the most reliable automatics on the market. It's pretty safe to say that Honda knows exactly what makes their transmissions work well, and what does not.
It is unwise to use anything but genuine-Honda ATF-DW1 in your Honda automatic, and you should definitely stay away from any and all additives; Honda takes a dim view of additives.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I know it puts more wear on the engine but i was told its very minimal cause from what i notice it only spins 1000rpms higher than normal while in 3rd doing about 50-60kmh.
"Only" 1000rpm? That's about 60% higher. That's almost two-thirds more wear, which is not "minimal" at all.
And, if I were you, I'd skip that LubeGard thing. Up to the '05 model year, Honda had terrible problems with many models' automatic transmissions. It cost them millions in warranty claims, and untold amounts of reputation-damage. At great expense and effort, Honda has since fixed this, and now makes what are probably the most reliable automatics on the market. It's pretty safe to say that Honda knows exactly what makes their transmissions work well, and what does not.
It is unwise to use anything but genuine-Honda ATF-DW1 in your Honda automatic, and you should definitely stay away from any and all additives; Honda takes a dim view of additives.
Well the reason why i reason i use D3 a lot and manually shift to D (to get into 4th) is not so much to minimize the shifting but cause i have a 200rpm flare everytime when trans is hot, shifting from 3rd to 4th. But only happens when shifting between 2000 and 2800rpms. Anything under or over and doesnt happen. It has to do something with a valve pressure problem.
Ive driven with it for months, in D all the time, but for the most part would intentionally back off my gas each time as its about to shift to 4th between 2000-2900rpms to avoid the flare. But i got so sick of doing it cause its a major nousense like you wouldnt believe. So buddy mech one day told me to keep it in D3 and manually shift. He said it wont hurt the trans by manually shifting. And that its no different than the computer automatically shifting.
So one day i tried it, figured out which speed i have to hit at the minimum before shifting to D to get the trans to shift to 4th right away and its 60km/h. I do this and the trans shifts smooth and right away each time with no flare at ANY rpm.
Watch this to see what i mean for the 200rpm flare when in D going from third to 4th between 2000-2900rpms (20-22sec mark). Turn up your sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XadCsC5a3_M
Trust me ive asked my buddy mech abotu the extra wear on the engine and he said honda engines last a lifetime anyways and are the best engines in the world, its not going to significantly wear it out faster. Thats just what he said.
And mind you another thing is that Im a grandma driver. I pretty much never take my car past 3000rpms. So even though my car is running at 1000rpms higher when in 3rd doing between 45-60km/h, i dont know if that would be more wear on the engine in the long run vs someone who drives their car in the 4000-5000rpms range all the time. Hope its not confusing.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
I know it puts more wear on the engine but i was told its very minimal cause from what i notice it only spins 1000rpms higher than normal while in 3rd doing about 50-60kmh.
"Only" 1000rpm? That's about 60% higher. That's almost two-thirds more wear, which is not "minimal" at all.
And, if I were you, I'd skip that LubeGard thing. Up to the '05 model year, Honda had terrible problems with many models' automatic transmissions. It cost them millions in warranty claims, and untold amounts of reputation-damage. At great expense and effort, Honda has since fixed this, and now makes what are probably the most reliable automatics on the market. It's pretty safe to say that Honda knows exactly what makes their transmissions work well, and what does not.
It is unwise to use anything but genuine-Honda ATF-DW1 in your Honda automatic, and you should definitely stay away from any and all additives; Honda takes a dim view of additives.
Well the reason why i reason i use D3 a lot and manually shift to D (to get into 4th) is not so much to minimize the shifting but cause i have a 200rpm flare everytime when trans is hot, shifting from 3rd to 4th. But only happens when shifting between 2000 and 2800rpms. Anything under or over and doesnt happen. It has to do something with a valve pressure problem.
Ive driven with it for months, in D all the time, but for the most part would intentionally back off my gas each time as its about to shift to 4th between 2000-2900rpms to avoid the flare. But i got so sick of doing it cause its a major nousense like you wouldnt believe. So buddy mech one day told me to keep it in D3 and manually shift. He said it wont hurt the trans by manually shifting. And that its no different than the computer automatically shifting.
So one day i tried it, figured out which speed i have to hit at the minimum before shifting to D to get the trans to shift to 4th right away and its 60km/h. I do this and the trans shifts smooth and right away each time with no flare at ANY rpm.
Watch this to see what i mean for the 200rpm flare when in D going from third to 4th between 2000-2900rpms (20-22sec mark). Turn up your sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XadCsC5a3_M
Trust me ive asked my buddy mech abotu the extra wear on the engine and he said honda engines last a lifetime anyways and are the best engines in the world, its not going to significantly wear it out faster. Thats just what he said.
And mind you another thing is that Im a grandma driver. I pretty much never take my car past 3000rpms. So even though my car is running at 1000rpms higher when in 3rd doing between 45-60km/h, i dont know if that would be more wear on the engine in the long run vs someone who drives their car in the 4000-5000rpms range all the time. Hope its not confusing.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
i have a 200rpm flare everytime when trans is hot, shifting from 3rd to 4th. But only happens when shifting between 2000 and 2800rpms. Anything under or over and doesnt happen. It has to do something with a valve pressure problem.
Uh-oh, the infamous shift-flare. A flare means delayed clutch-engagement.
Possible causes:
1) Wrong fluid (which means anything other than DW1)
2) Shift solenoid is bad
3) Clutch pack is worn
4) ECM software needs updating
5) Shift control cable (on throttle shaft) is misadjusted.
i have a 200rpm flare everytime when trans is hot, shifting from 3rd to 4th. But only happens when shifting between 2000 and 2800rpms. Anything under or over and doesnt happen. It has to do something with a valve pressure problem.
Uh-oh, the infamous shift-flare. A flare means delayed clutch-engagement.
Possible causes:
1) Wrong fluid (which means anything other than DW1)
2) Shift solenoid is bad
3) Clutch pack is worn
4) ECM software needs updating
5) Shift control cable (on throttle shaft) is misadjusted.
@Carnoobie:
Listen to what Tegger is telling you, this guy knows Honda/Acura products and gets it right most all of the time from what I have seen.
Listen to what Tegger is telling you, this guy knows Honda/Acura products and gets it right most all of the time from what I have seen.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
i have a 200rpm flare everytime when trans is hot, shifting from 3rd to 4th. But only happens when shifting between 2000 and 2800rpms. Anything under or over and doesnt happen. It has to do something with a valve pressure problem.
Uh-oh, the infamous shift-flare. A flare means delayed clutch-engagement.
Possible causes:
1) Wrong fluid (which means anything other than DW1)
2) Shift solenoid is bad
3) Clutch pack is worn
4) ECM software needs updating
5) Shift control cable (on throttle shaft) is misadjusted.
I know 2 others with same year civics and both have same problem, exact same. I have one who drives his in D all the time and much harder and he lets it flare in the 3-4 shift all the time. Hes had his car for 4yrs, over 100,000km put on and says it hasnt gotten worse at all. He bought his car like it from day one.
1) Even with DW1 it still did it.
2) Had the shift solenoids tested and were good
3) Cant be, when i do drain and fills, i have no metal bits in the fluid or magnet. Also when i hard shift i get no flare ever, in any gear or rpm.
4) ECM? Never heard of it. How do you update this? Was told honda has to do it? But why would this be needed?
5) Do you mean throttle valve cable? Theres no adjustable cable on this trans at all. ive looked into it.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
i have a 200rpm flare everytime when trans is hot, shifting from 3rd to 4th. But only happens when shifting between 2000 and 2800rpms. Anything under or over and doesnt happen. It has to do something with a valve pressure problem.
Uh-oh, the infamous shift-flare. A flare means delayed clutch-engagement.
Possible causes:
1) Wrong fluid (which means anything other than DW1)
2) Shift solenoid is bad
3) Clutch pack is worn
4) ECM software needs updating
5) Shift control cable (on throttle shaft) is misadjusted.
I know 2 others with same year civics and both have same problem, exact same. I have one who drives his in D all the time and much harder and he lets it flare in the 3-4 shift all the time. Hes had his car for 4yrs, over 100,000km put on and says it hasnt gotten worse at all. He bought his car like it from day one.
1) Even with DW1 it still did it.
2) Had the shift solenoids tested and were good
3) Cant be, when i do drain and fills, i have no metal bits in the fluid or magnet. Also when i hard shift i get no flare ever, in any gear or rpm.
4) ECM? Never heard of it. How do you update this? Was told honda has to do it? But why would this be needed?
5) Do you mean throttle valve cable? Theres no adjustable cable on this trans at all. ive looked into it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
1) Even with DW1 it still did it.
2) Had the shift solenoids tested and were good
3) Cant be, when i do drain and fills, i have no metal bits in the fluid or magnet. Also when i hard shift i get no flare ever, in any gear or rpm.
4) ECM? Never heard of it. How do you update this? Was told honda has to do it? But why would this be needed?
5) Do you mean throttle valve cable? Theres no adjustable cable on this trans at all. ive looked into it.
Taking the above at face-value... probably the most likely cause of the flare would have to be the ECM/PCM. These would be the computer(s) which control the engine and/or transmission. Sometimes the software is incorrectly calibrated. In those cases, Honda issues software updates. These would be applied by your dealer, who has the necessary equipment to re-flash the ECM/PCM software. In addition, the dealer will be able to search for TSBs (called "Service Letters" in Canada) dealing with any such symptoms.
I have a complete TSB list up to about mid-2010; I do not find any TSBs for your model on any flare or delayed-upshift condition. Your dealer will have complete records. You can search yourself, if you wish: https://techinfo.honda.com . You can buy a 3-day subscription for $10, which buys you all-you-can-download for that sum. This is the same technical info the dealer has.
Also, some models have a small flare on certain upshifts as an undesirable but normal part of their operation, even after an ECM/PCM re-flash. If this is true for your model, there may not be a TSB, but simply a mention in Honda Canada's version of the monthly dealer publication "Honda Service News", which is called "Shop Talk" in Canada. You can ask your dealer about this as well.
1) Even with DW1 it still did it.
2) Had the shift solenoids tested and were good
3) Cant be, when i do drain and fills, i have no metal bits in the fluid or magnet. Also when i hard shift i get no flare ever, in any gear or rpm.
4) ECM? Never heard of it. How do you update this? Was told honda has to do it? But why would this be needed?
5) Do you mean throttle valve cable? Theres no adjustable cable on this trans at all. ive looked into it.
Taking the above at face-value... probably the most likely cause of the flare would have to be the ECM/PCM. These would be the computer(s) which control the engine and/or transmission. Sometimes the software is incorrectly calibrated. In those cases, Honda issues software updates. These would be applied by your dealer, who has the necessary equipment to re-flash the ECM/PCM software. In addition, the dealer will be able to search for TSBs (called "Service Letters" in Canada) dealing with any such symptoms.
I have a complete TSB list up to about mid-2010; I do not find any TSBs for your model on any flare or delayed-upshift condition. Your dealer will have complete records. You can search yourself, if you wish: https://techinfo.honda.com . You can buy a 3-day subscription for $10, which buys you all-you-can-download for that sum. This is the same technical info the dealer has.
Also, some models have a small flare on certain upshifts as an undesirable but normal part of their operation, even after an ECM/PCM re-flash. If this is true for your model, there may not be a TSB, but simply a mention in Honda Canada's version of the monthly dealer publication "Honda Service News", which is called "Shop Talk" in Canada. You can ask your dealer about this as well.
Thanks
So when i all up my honda dealer ill ask for a ECM/PCM reflash? Is ECM and PCM the same? This isnt the ECU is it? How do they usually determine if mine is outdated and needs reflash?
And ya like i said i have two friends with exact same car same year and have the third to fourth 200rpm flare too between 2000-2900rpms. Had it since day one and hasnt gotten worse so they think its normal.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
1) Even with DW1 it still did it.
2) Had the shift solenoids tested and were good
3) Cant be, when i do drain and fills, i have no metal bits in the fluid or magnet. Also when i hard shift i get no flare ever, in any gear or rpm.
4) ECM? Never heard of it. How do you update this? Was told honda has to do it? But why would this be needed?
5) Do you mean throttle valve cable? Theres no adjustable cable on this trans at all. ive looked into it.
Taking the above at face-value... probably the most likely cause of the flare would have to be the ECM/PCM. These would be the computer(s) which control the engine and/or transmission. Sometimes the software is incorrectly calibrated. In those cases, Honda issues software updates. These would be applied by your dealer, who has the necessary equipment to re-flash the ECM/PCM software. In addition, the dealer will be able to search for TSBs (called "Service Letters" in Canada) dealing with any such symptoms.
I have a complete TSB list up to about mid-2010; I do not find any TSBs for your model on any flare or delayed-upshift condition. Your dealer will have complete records. You can search yourself, if you wish: https://techinfo.honda.com . You can buy a 3-day subscription for $10, which buys you all-you-can-download for that sum. This is the same technical info the dealer has.
Also, some models have a small flare on certain upshifts as an undesirable but normal part of their operation, even after an ECM/PCM re-flash. If this is true for your model, there may not be a TSB, but simply a mention in Honda Canada's version of the monthly dealer publication "Honda Service News", which is called "Shop Talk" in Canada. You can ask your dealer about this as well.
So when i all up my honda dealer ill ask for a ECM/PCM reflash? Is ECM and PCM the same? This isnt the ECU is it? How do they usually determine if mine is outdated and needs reflash?
And ya like i said i have two friends with exact same car same year and have the third to fourth 200rpm flare too between 2000-2900rpms. Had it since day one and hasnt gotten worse so they think its normal.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
1) Even with DW1 it still did it.
2) Had the shift solenoids tested and were good
3) Cant be, when i do drain and fills, i have no metal bits in the fluid or magnet. Also when i hard shift i get no flare ever, in any gear or rpm.
4) ECM? Never heard of it. How do you update this? Was told honda has to do it? But why would this be needed?
5) Do you mean throttle valve cable? Theres no adjustable cable on this trans at all. ive looked into it.
Taking the above at face-value... probably the most likely cause of the flare would have to be the ECM/PCM. These would be the computer(s) which control the engine and/or transmission. Sometimes the software is incorrectly calibrated. In those cases, Honda issues software updates. These would be applied by your dealer, who has the necessary equipment to re-flash the ECM/PCM software. In addition, the dealer will be able to search for TSBs (called "Service Letters" in Canada) dealing with any such symptoms.
I have a complete TSB list up to about mid-2010; I do not find any TSBs for your model on any flare or delayed-upshift condition. Your dealer will have complete records. You can search yourself, if you wish: https://techinfo.honda.com . You can buy a 3-day subscription for $10, which buys you all-you-can-download for that sum. This is the same technical info the dealer has.
Also, some models have a small flare on certain upshifts as an undesirable but normal part of their operation, even after an ECM/PCM re-flash. If this is true for your model, there may not be a TSB, but simply a mention in Honda Canada's version of the monthly dealer publication "Honda Service News", which is called "Shop Talk" in Canada. You can ask your dealer about this as well.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Thanks
So when i all up my honda dealer ill ask for a ECM/PCM reflash? Is ECM and PCM the same? This isnt the ECU is it?
Yes. "ECU" is the old name for the ECM.
The ECM is called a "PCM" if it doubles as the Transmission Control Module.
Actually, if your car has a separate TCM, they may need to flash both ECM and TCM.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
How do they usually determine if mine is outdated and needs reflash?
Just like you'd check for a program version on your computer. They check the version in the ECM/PCM/TCM against the latest version available on ISIS (Honda's dealer tech site).
What you'll do is this:
- Go to your dealer and explain the flare symptoms to the Service Advisor.
- Ask him to look for "Safety Recalls" or "Service Letters" (TSBs) regarding this symptom.
- Also ask him to check back issues of "Shop Talk" for any other mentions of this problem on your model.
- Then ask him to see if there is an ECM or PCM flash available that is newer than the one on your car.
- He may want a mechanic to drive the car -- or ride with you while you drive it -- to experience the problem first-hand.
Note: You will likely need to pay (probably about $80-100) for the re-flash, unless it's part of a Safety Recall.
If there are no Service Letters, no Shop Talk mentions, your software is up-to-date, and there are no other obvious problems, then the behavior is probably normal for your model. In any case, shifting manually or allowing the transmission to shift automatically won't make any difference to transmission longevity. But shifting manually so that the shift occurs at a higher engine RPM will result in approximately 60% more wear on the engine during those periods. You'd be well advised to allow the transmission to work by itself, as it was meant to work.
Thanks
So when i all up my honda dealer ill ask for a ECM/PCM reflash? Is ECM and PCM the same? This isnt the ECU is it?
Yes. "ECU" is the old name for the ECM.
The ECM is called a "PCM" if it doubles as the Transmission Control Module.
Actually, if your car has a separate TCM, they may need to flash both ECM and TCM.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
How do they usually determine if mine is outdated and needs reflash?
Just like you'd check for a program version on your computer. They check the version in the ECM/PCM/TCM against the latest version available on ISIS (Honda's dealer tech site).
What you'll do is this:
- Go to your dealer and explain the flare symptoms to the Service Advisor.
- Ask him to look for "Safety Recalls" or "Service Letters" (TSBs) regarding this symptom.
- Also ask him to check back issues of "Shop Talk" for any other mentions of this problem on your model.
- Then ask him to see if there is an ECM or PCM flash available that is newer than the one on your car.
- He may want a mechanic to drive the car -- or ride with you while you drive it -- to experience the problem first-hand.
Note: You will likely need to pay (probably about $80-100) for the re-flash, unless it's part of a Safety Recall.
If there are no Service Letters, no Shop Talk mentions, your software is up-to-date, and there are no other obvious problems, then the behavior is probably normal for your model. In any case, shifting manually or allowing the transmission to shift automatically won't make any difference to transmission longevity. But shifting manually so that the shift occurs at a higher engine RPM will result in approximately 60% more wear on the engine during those periods. You'd be well advised to allow the transmission to work by itself, as it was meant to work.
K ill ask them about it.
From what i notice, when im doing 50kmh im only doing 2000rpms, when im going up to 60kmh on light driving i go up to 2500rpms. Then i shift to 4th by putting it into D and it shifts at 2500-2700rpms cause i keep my gas light. If i applied the same amount of gas while in D it would shift at 2500rpms
If i go heavier on throttle and shift at like 3000rpms i just keep it in D from the start. It all depends on the road im on. I gurss i should have mentioned this earlier. You probably think im always manually shifting to 4th, but no only on some roads, depends on the roads speed limit. If i plan on merging into a freeway i keep it im D all along cause i plan on acceleating with heavier throttle so i avoid the flare.
.
The only thing is, remember i drive very lightly and never take my car past 3000rpms. Im very easy on it. Even though im running at higher rpms while doing 50-60kmh in d3....dont you think someone who say is a much more aggressuve driver (shifting at 3000-5000rpms often in D) would put more wear on the engine than me? Just wondering.
The reason i was told to avoid the 3-4 flare is cause a flare means it burns the clutch pack and puts extra wear on it and creates excess heat.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Thanks
So when i all up my honda dealer ill ask for a ECM/PCM reflash? Is ECM and PCM the same? This isnt the ECU is it?
Yes. "ECU" is the old name for the ECM.
The ECM is called a "PCM" if it doubles as the Transmission Control Module.
Actually, if your car has a separate TCM, they may need to flash both ECM and TCM.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
How do they usually determine if mine is outdated and needs reflash?
Just like you'd check for a program version on your computer. They check the version in the ECM/PCM/TCM against the latest version available on ISIS (Honda's dealer tech site).
What you'll do is this:
- Go to your dealer and explain the flare symptoms to the Service Advisor.
- Ask him to look for "Safety Recalls" or "Service Letters" (TSBs) regarding this symptom.
- Also ask him to check back issues of "Shop Talk" for any other mentions of this problem on your model.
- Then ask him to see if there is an ECM or PCM flash available that is newer than the one on your car.
- He may want a mechanic to drive the car -- or ride with you while you drive it -- to experience the problem first-hand.
Note: You will likely need to pay (probably about $80-100) for the re-flash, unless it's part of a Safety Recall.
If there are no Service Letters, no Shop Talk mentions, your software is up-to-date, and there are no other obvious problems, then the behavior is probably normal for your model. In any case, shifting manually or allowing the transmission to shift automatically won't make any difference to transmission longevity. But shifting manually so that the shift occurs at a higher engine RPM will result in approximately 60% more wear on the engine during those periods. You'd be well advised to allow the transmission to work by itself, as it was meant to work.
From what i notice, when im doing 50kmh im only doing 2000rpms, when im going up to 60kmh on light driving i go up to 2500rpms. Then i shift to 4th by putting it into D and it shifts at 2500-2700rpms cause i keep my gas light. If i applied the same amount of gas while in D it would shift at 2500rpms
If i go heavier on throttle and shift at like 3000rpms i just keep it in D from the start. It all depends on the road im on. I gurss i should have mentioned this earlier. You probably think im always manually shifting to 4th, but no only on some roads, depends on the roads speed limit. If i plan on merging into a freeway i keep it im D all along cause i plan on acceleating with heavier throttle so i avoid the flare.
.
The only thing is, remember i drive very lightly and never take my car past 3000rpms. Im very easy on it. Even though im running at higher rpms while doing 50-60kmh in d3....dont you think someone who say is a much more aggressuve driver (shifting at 3000-5000rpms often in D) would put more wear on the engine than me? Just wondering.
The reason i was told to avoid the 3-4 flare is cause a flare means it burns the clutch pack and puts extra wear on it and creates excess heat.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
Thanks
So when i all up my honda dealer ill ask for a ECM/PCM reflash? Is ECM and PCM the same? This isnt the ECU is it?
Yes. "ECU" is the old name for the ECM.
The ECM is called a "PCM" if it doubles as the Transmission Control Module.
Actually, if your car has a separate TCM, they may need to flash both ECM and TCM.
Originally Posted By: Carnoobie
How do they usually determine if mine is outdated and needs reflash?
Just like you'd check for a program version on your computer. They check the version in the ECM/PCM/TCM against the latest version available on ISIS (Honda's dealer tech site).
What you'll do is this:
- Go to your dealer and explain the flare symptoms to the Service Advisor.
- Ask him to look for "Safety Recalls" or "Service Letters" (TSBs) regarding this symptom.
- Also ask him to check back issues of "Shop Talk" for any other mentions of this problem on your model.
- Then ask him to see if there is an ECM or PCM flash available that is newer than the one on your car.
- He may want a mechanic to drive the car -- or ride with you while you drive it -- to experience the problem first-hand.
Note: You will likely need to pay (probably about $80-100) for the re-flash, unless it's part of a Safety Recall.
If there are no Service Letters, no Shop Talk mentions, your software is up-to-date, and there are no other obvious problems, then the behavior is probably normal for your model. In any case, shifting manually or allowing the transmission to shift automatically won't make any difference to transmission longevity. But shifting manually so that the shift occurs at a higher engine RPM will result in approximately 60% more wear on the engine during those periods. You'd be well advised to allow the transmission to work by itself, as it was meant to work.
Last edited:
You guys are seriously reading too much into this. Shifting at 3,000RPM vs 2,000RPM is NOT going to shorten the life of the engine OR the transmission by any noticeable amount. Just drive the car, that's what they are designed to do.
Ha, didn't know you made another thread...but Tegger's list was spot on. If the app doesn't have the separate TCM, reflashing may as well be done if you just want to cross it off.
Still, go through the steps. Most may ignore your supposed 'symptoms', unless you can get it to act up really well. lol
Of course, they may be able to see the transmission programming with an on-board laptop perhaps while driving? I don't know if it's possible to see this streaming, unless some access point/test port, etc, with proper software on a machine were used.
It's essentially the same as buying a very good tune software which connects to a compy with legit/paid for software that can flash for engine optimizing and/or shift tunes; usually this is done for weekend at the racetrack cars, etc. Most keep a file that lets the factory flash be 're-installed' back on the module(s)/chip(s) when done racing.
So, if the other things check out then the dealer re-tune is worth a shot.
Still, go through the steps. Most may ignore your supposed 'symptoms', unless you can get it to act up really well. lol
Of course, they may be able to see the transmission programming with an on-board laptop perhaps while driving? I don't know if it's possible to see this streaming, unless some access point/test port, etc, with proper software on a machine were used.
It's essentially the same as buying a very good tune software which connects to a compy with legit/paid for software that can flash for engine optimizing and/or shift tunes; usually this is done for weekend at the racetrack cars, etc. Most keep a file that lets the factory flash be 're-installed' back on the module(s)/chip(s) when done racing.
So, if the other things check out then the dealer re-tune is worth a shot.
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