Did I drain my FF too early?
- Thread starter FB09l
- Start date
- Status
Agreed. On new vehicle possession I have always dumped my factory fill after an hour or two of proper run in prior to restart. Worked for me for the last 30 years so I see no reason to change.
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
After 500-1000 miles everything inside the engine that needed to be broken in is broken in. No need to worry.
What does the manual say about the break in? They usually specify how the vehicle should be drive for the first 600-1000 miles. That's usually the break in period.
That's not really true, most car engines aren't fully seated in until around 15K, but it's not something one really needs to worry much about IIRC...
As for the OP, I would have left in in for a few thousand miles, but certainly not 10K. I doubt it will make any difference...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
After 500-1000 miles everything inside the engine that needed to be broken in is broken in. No need to worry.
What does the manual say about the break in? They usually specify how the vehicle should be drive for the first 600-1000 miles. That's usually the break in period.
That's not really true, most car engines aren't fully seated in until around 15K, but it's not something one really needs to worry much about IIRC...
As for the OP, I would have left in in for a few thousand miles, but certainly not 10K. I doubt it will make any difference...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
My wife got a new 2017 Explorer with the 2.3L twin turbo DI engine. Originally I was going to change it out at 2,500 miles but she had to go to the dealer for a leaking rear tire, turned out to be a nail puncture. So for convenience we had the FF changed at about 2,000 miles instead. I'm planning on doing a used oil analysis to see how bad the fuel dilution is on this engine at the 5,000 OCI mark. Ford's FF oil is nothing special I understand. Like our other vehicles we keep them for 15 years +. With this being a twin turbo DI engine I want to establish a comfortable OCI interval for long term ownership. I'm not sure Ford's OLM is "looking" after long term ownership concerns or is it what that they can advertise as money savings maintenance that will get them through the warranty period without a oil related warranty claims.
Whimsey
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Trav
You did well getting it out early, the oil is not a high moly oil neither is the one Honda uses it is moly paste residue used on the bearings to prevent dry start when it was made. Its easier for them than priming the engine.
Once the engine has oil pressure this compound is doing very little as far as additional wear protection goes, rogue metallic particles are possibly doing more harm than the moly is doing good.
Sleep well, you did not harm.
Bingo!
You did well getting it out early, the oil is not a high moly oil neither is the one Honda uses it is moly paste residue used on the bearings to prevent dry start when it was made. Its easier for them than priming the engine.
Once the engine has oil pressure this compound is doing very little as far as additional wear protection goes, rogue metallic particles are possibly doing more harm than the moly is doing good.
Sleep well, you did not harm.
Bingo!
I change out the FF on every car/truck I have ever owned (85+) at 1,000 to 1,500 miles. Never had an issue with any engine since 1965.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
Which is why I would no longer dump factory fill at 500 miles...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
Which is why I would no longer dump factory fill at 500 miles...
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
After 500-1000 miles everything inside the engine that needed to be broken in is broken in. No need to worry.
What does the manual say about the break in? They usually specify how the vehicle should be drive for the first 600-1000 miles. That's usually the break in period.
That's not really true, most car engines aren't fully seated in until around 15K, but it's not something one really needs to worry much about IIRC...
As for the OP, I would have left in in for a few thousand miles, but certainly not 10K. I doubt it will make any difference...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
What so different from the 70's other than things like cracked connecting rod big ends, FI, roller rocker and lifters and a few other things?
Cylinders are still bored, pins are still pressed (not all), cranks and cams are still machined and ground, valves still go up and down all causing particles to shed.
I wish I could find an article I read some years ago by Honda where they said it was to make the company appear more environmentally conscious. Others followed suit.
Granted some parts have less friction than engines of the 70's so the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but for the price of oil I don't overthink it, just change it.
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
After 500-1000 miles everything inside the engine that needed to be broken in is broken in. No need to worry.
What does the manual say about the break in? They usually specify how the vehicle should be drive for the first 600-1000 miles. That's usually the break in period.
That's not really true, most car engines aren't fully seated in until around 15K, but it's not something one really needs to worry much about IIRC...
As for the OP, I would have left in in for a few thousand miles, but certainly not 10K. I doubt it will make any difference...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
What so different from the 70's other than things like cracked connecting rod big ends, FI, roller rocker and lifters and a few other things?
Cylinders are still bored, pins are still pressed (not all), cranks and cams are still machined and ground, valves still go up and down all causing particles to shed.
I wish I could find an article I read some years ago by Honda where they said it was to make the company appear more environmentally conscious. Others followed suit.
Granted some parts have less friction than engines of the 70's so the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but for the price of oil I don't overthink it, just change it.
While most manufacturers don't use anything special for the FF the assembly lube DOES have the extra additives needed for a proper break-in. I'm in the camp of leaving the FF in for the owners manual recommended interval, you can't go wrong following the owners manual.
I changed the oil at 1,600 miles on the Prius and I had to wear sunglasses from all the sparkling glitter which came out in the factory fill.
Apparently the particles were much smaller than the filter, or maybe the filter wasn't quite "doing it's job."
All of my subsequent changes at 10k intervals have been normal.
Apparently the particles were much smaller than the filter, or maybe the filter wasn't quite "doing it's job."
All of my subsequent changes at 10k intervals have been normal.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
After 500-1000 miles everything inside the engine that needed to be broken in is broken in. No need to worry.
What does the manual say about the break in? They usually specify how the vehicle should be drive for the first 600-1000 miles. That's usually the break in period.
That's not really true, most car engines aren't fully seated in until around 15K, but it's not something one really needs to worry much about IIRC...
As for the OP, I would have left in in for a few thousand miles, but certainly not 10K. I doubt it will make any difference...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
What so different from the 70's other than things like cracked connecting rod big ends, FI, roller rocker and lifters and a few other things?
Cylinders are still bored, pins are still pressed (not all), cranks and cams are still machined and ground, valves still go up and down all causing particles to shed.
I wish I could find an article I read some years ago by Honda where they said it was to make the company appear more environmentally conscious. Others followed suit.
Granted some parts have less friction than engines of the 70's so the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but for the price of oil I don't overthink it, just change it.
I had this conversation not long ago with a machinist I worked with many years ago. He has a local shop and I visit him from time to time. I asked him if his opinion of dumping the factory fill early changed since we worked together in the 70's. His comments almost mirrored yours. He gets the FF out early on new vehicles he buys, and insists that his customers do the same with engines he rebuilds for them. He lays out his schedule for oil changes when he completes a rebuild for someone and they pick up the engine.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
After 500-1000 miles everything inside the engine that needed to be broken in is broken in. No need to worry.
What does the manual say about the break in? They usually specify how the vehicle should be drive for the first 600-1000 miles. That's usually the break in period.
That's not really true, most car engines aren't fully seated in until around 15K, but it's not something one really needs to worry much about IIRC...
As for the OP, I would have left in in for a few thousand miles, but certainly not 10K. I doubt it will make any difference...
I wouldn't be so sure, this is not the 70s.
What so different from the 70's other than things like cracked connecting rod big ends, FI, roller rocker and lifters and a few other things?
Cylinders are still bored, pins are still pressed (not all), cranks and cams are still machined and ground, valves still go up and down all causing particles to shed.
I wish I could find an article I read some years ago by Honda where they said it was to make the company appear more environmentally conscious. Others followed suit.
Granted some parts have less friction than engines of the 70's so the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle but for the price of oil I don't overthink it, just change it.
I had this conversation not long ago with a machinist I worked with many years ago. He has a local shop and I visit him from time to time. I asked him if his opinion of dumping the factory fill early changed since we worked together in the 70's. His comments almost mirrored yours. He gets the FF out early on new vehicles he buys, and insists that his customers do the same with engines he rebuilds for them. He lays out his schedule for oil changes when he completes a rebuild for someone and they pick up the engine.
All conjecture and opinion without any real expertise.
My comment about 70s was about the break in period claimed to be 15,000 miles when most owner manuals mention the break in period to be the first 1000 miles or so.
The surface finish on the machined components is now more precise and consistent, therefore parts break in quicker and don't shed as much material as they used to, but there is still break in material being created.
I agree 100% on dumping FF early.
The surface finish on the machined components is now more precise and consistent, therefore parts break in quicker and don't shed as much material as they used to, but there is still break in material being created.
I agree 100% on dumping FF early.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
My comment about 70s was about the break in period claimed to be 15,000 miles when most owner manuals mention the break in period to be the first 1000 miles or so.
The surface finish on the machined components is now more precise and consistent, therefore parts break in quicker and don't shed as much material as they used to, but there is still break in material being created.
I agree 100% on dumping FF early.
The bottom line is they still shed quite a bit of metal when new, as proven time and time again by UOA on new engines. I can't compare a new engine from the 70's to a new engine from today as to which sheds more metal and how much faster one engine breaks in over the other. I would think an engine from today will shed a bit less metal and break in faster. I've spoken with enough people in the know, to create an opinion of what I feel is best for me. I want that [censored] out of my engine fast. Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not, I think it matters. Fortunately I can afford to dump the oil early, even if it's only for making me feel better. I'm in good company with pros and experts like Trav, my machinist friend, and several other members here. Bottom line do what makes you sleep the best. This is a topic which always stirs the pot.
My comment about 70s was about the break in period claimed to be 15,000 miles when most owner manuals mention the break in period to be the first 1000 miles or so.
The surface finish on the machined components is now more precise and consistent, therefore parts break in quicker and don't shed as much material as they used to, but there is still break in material being created.
I agree 100% on dumping FF early.
Has anyone actually rubbed the factory fill between their fingers to feel for any grit?
Maybe it is all visual and not abrasive like sand- but more akin to antisieze!
Maybe it is all visual and not abrasive like sand- but more akin to antisieze!
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Has anyone actually rubbed the factory fill between their fingers to feel for any grit?
My factory fill looked like it was filled with very fine metal shavings.
There is no way I wanted to rub it between my fingers, but that's a good idea.
Has anyone actually rubbed the factory fill between their fingers to feel for any grit?
My factory fill looked like it was filled with very fine metal shavings.
There is no way I wanted to rub it between my fingers, but that's a good idea.
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
While most manufacturers don't use anything special for the FF the assembly lube DOES have the extra additives needed for a proper break-in. I'm in the camp of leaving the FF in for the owners manual recommended interval, you can't go wrong following the owners manual.
Just for FYI. Honda/Acura state exactly this. We actually had a service bulletin stating that doing the first oil change early can actually damage the motor, causing hot spots on the wear areas because the additives that prevent friction during break in will be drained. I am assuming this is moly from the assembly lube.
While most manufacturers don't use anything special for the FF the assembly lube DOES have the extra additives needed for a proper break-in. I'm in the camp of leaving the FF in for the owners manual recommended interval, you can't go wrong following the owners manual.
Just for FYI. Honda/Acura state exactly this. We actually had a service bulletin stating that doing the first oil change early can actually damage the motor, causing hot spots on the wear areas because the additives that prevent friction during break in will be drained. I am assuming this is moly from the assembly lube.
Last edited:
The newer engines have the variable valve timing mechanisms like VTEC and MIVEC that would shed fine particles right off the first several hundred miles.
I still favor dumping the factory fill but if the manufacturer says no, one way is to use the Mazda Moly oil from Idemitsu for the following fill until regular changes kick in.
I still favor dumping the factory fill but if the manufacturer says no, one way is to use the Mazda Moly oil from Idemitsu for the following fill until regular changes kick in.
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
While most manufacturers don't use anything special for the FF the assembly lube DOES have the extra additives needed for a proper break-in. I'm in the camp of leaving the FF in for the owners manual recommended interval, you can't go wrong following the owners manual.
Just for FYI. Honda/Acura state exactly this. We actually had a service bulletin stating that doing the first oil change early can actually damage the motor, causing hot spots on the wear areas because the additives that prevent friction during break in will be drained. I am assuming this is moly from the assembly lube.
In the last few years--maybe 5 or so, there is no evidence of extra moly in Honda/Acura new car used oil analysis. Maybe the anti-wear agents now being used are not visible in a traditional UOA
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
While most manufacturers don't use anything special for the FF the assembly lube DOES have the extra additives needed for a proper break-in. I'm in the camp of leaving the FF in for the owners manual recommended interval, you can't go wrong following the owners manual.
Just for FYI. Honda/Acura state exactly this. We actually had a service bulletin stating that doing the first oil change early can actually damage the motor, causing hot spots on the wear areas because the additives that prevent friction during break in will be drained. I am assuming this is moly from the assembly lube.
In the last few years--maybe 5 or so, there is no evidence of extra moly in Honda/Acura new car used oil analysis. Maybe the anti-wear agents now being used are not visible in a traditional UOA
I left the FF in my last new car (2012 Mazda3) for the full 7,500 miles. It came out looking just like the oil from any subsequent oil change. If you are seeing ANY visible particles in the oil you drained it would lead me to believe that the filter wasn't doing its job.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked