Dexron IIe recommended by tranny builder

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windssurfer

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I had my tranny rebuilt by a performance builder about 4 years ago and at the time he was able to get Dexron IIe. I now need to drain and refill my 4l60e and can no longer get it. I contacted him and was advised to use Type F as it is a non synthetic and contains zinc which he feels is more compatible with the type of clutches used in the rebuild. The reason he does not recommend the Dextron 3/Mercon is because the main lubricating component, Zinc has been removed from this type of fluid.
Is it true that zinc as an additive is not used in Dex 3/Mer?
Is Dex 3/Merc a blend of syn and dino?
 
You didn't really mention enough about your specific vehicle and tranny but you did mention that the rebuilder is a "performance tranny builder"
Well, here is what I have read/researched and beleive.

First, all DEXRON ATFs supercede the ones before it so, using DexIII/Merc should work well in your 4l60 tranny. What I can't answer for is if DexronVI(the newest DEX) is compatable with your tranny. Someone will chime in on this. We still need more info from you.

Second, using Type F in a GM auto tranny(or any newer auto tranny)is a no-no! Maybe it's O.K. but, I haven't heard of this being recomended. TypeF ATF is for older Ford trannys of IIRC, the early 70's, contains no friction modifiers or not the proper friction modifiers for your tranny. Guys that drag race their cars and have auto tranny often like TypeF for it quick shifting benefits due to the lack of friction modifiers but, TypeF is not meant for newer auto trannys. Is this what you are doing?

Third, I can't answer for the amount of Zinc that is in ATF's but, I would seriously question the validity of your tranny rebuilder and his recomendation of TypeF unless your racing...Maybe!

Maybe I'm all wrong on this!
 
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Do you know or can you find out from the builder what type of clutches were used? That way, you could contact the manufacturer directly to get their recommendation. They might be more willing to explain their recommendation than your trans builder. At the least, they won't feel like you're second-guessing them.

Also check into Red Line's ATFs. They seem well suited to a performance application, and their tech contact could make a recommendation based on clutch material, too.
 
Quote:
I contacted him and was advised to use Type F as it is a non synthetic and contains zinc which he feels is more compatible with the type of clutches used in the rebuild. The reason he does not recommend the Dextron 3/Mercon is because the main lubricating component, Zinc has been removed from this type of fluid.


First of all, there are synthetic Type F's as in Amsoil and Redline so his #1 statement is misinformed.

At one time ZDDP was at moderate levels in AT's for cellulose clutch materials, but newer AT's have carbon fiber composite clutches so they don't want any metal over 5ppm especially, zinc. Furthermore, zinc is only one type of anti-oxidant and there are better chemistries.

The newer anti-wear chemistries contain mostly a phosphorous-based additive chemistry (without zinc-based additives) that is real "clean."

If this transmission was built as a racing transsmission with a special stall torque coverter and valving shift kits, the Type F would indeed be the correct fluid. As Rhyming suggested, open a dialogue with your rebuilder and find out exactly what he put into the rebuild.

IF however this was a daily driver rebuild by a performance shop, but NOT a performance rebuild (There IS a difference!) then any Dexron/Merc fluid available today will work.

Redline D4 is one such fluid with a fully synthetic base and DexronIII/MERC additive pack.
 
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Originally Posted By: windssurfer
I had my tranny rebuilt by a performance builder about 4 years ago and at the time he was able to get Dexron IIe. I now need to drain and refill my 4l60e and can no longer get it. I contacted him and was advised to use Type F as it is a non synthetic and contains zinc which he feels is more compatible with the type of clutches used in the rebuild. The reason he does not recommend the Dextron 3/Mercon is because the main lubricating component, Zinc has been removed from this type of fluid.
Is it true that zinc as an additive is not used in Dex 3/Mer?
Is Dex 3/Merc a blend of syn and dino?


Use DEXRON-VI.

WW.
 
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Originally Posted By: windssurfer
I had my tranny rebuilt by a performance builder about 4 years ago and at the time he was able to get Dexron IIe. I now need to drain and refill my 4l60e and can no longer get it. I contacted him and was advised to use Type F as it is a non synthetic and contains zinc which he feels is more compatible with the type of clutches used in the rebuild. The reason he does not recommend the Dextron 3/Mercon is because the main lubricating component, Zinc has been removed from this type of fluid.
Is it true that zinc as an additive is not used in Dex 3/Mer?
Is Dex 3/Merc a blend of syn and dino?


Use DEXRON-VI.

WW.


What information in Windssurfer's post leads you to the recomendation of DEXRON-VI ?
 
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
The basis is that if DEXRON-IIE was OK then DEXRON-VI is better than that (information available).


If the tranny was rebuilt to stock, then YES! But we still don't know yet, what the rebuilder did during the overhaul of the tranny.
 
Hi. I'm a newbie here, but I just got my 4l60e rebuilt and thought I'd chime in. I did a lot of searching around and did some question asking.

I talked with both finish line transmissions and performabuilt. If I remember correctly both recommended DEX III fluid, not Dex VI. They also recommended a conventional fluid not synthetic.

The guy that built mine locally recommended Dex III plus lubeguard red so that is what I'm running.
 
I have the 4L60e in mine and have been thinking of snagging Mobil 1 ATF. I've been doing a bunch of reading at LS1GTO and LS1Tech that say to use a conventional as well, including the trans builders on the sites. For some reason they've seen a rash of transmissions going out 10k after a change using synthetic. The factory stuff isn't synthetic so I'm sure conventional will be just fine.

I'm thinking about trying Kendall Classic ATF.
 
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Originally Posted By: Torrid
I have the 4L60e in mine and have been thinking of snagging Mobil 1 ATF. I've been doing a bunch of reading at LS1GTO and LS1Tech that say to use a conventional as well, including the trans builders on the sites. For some reason they've seen a rash of transmissions going out 10k after a change using synthetic. The factory stuff isn't synthetic so I'm sure conventional will be just fine.

I'm thinking about trying Kendall Classic ATF.
sounds exactly like what I have heard. I think the conventional fluid seems to help improve the life of the band and 3-4 clutches in the 4l60e IIRC.

To anybody looking to get a 4l60e rebuilt, if your builder wants to use Alto Red clutches...stay away. While alto reds may be a good clutch pack for other transmissions, it does not hold up in 4l60e from what I've read. The alto red band is fine, just not the clutches in a 4l60e.
 
BTW, considering the Kendall Classic because the flashpoint is only 8 degrees lower than Mobil 1 ATF. Most of the conventionals I saw were around 350F to 380F.
 
Just curious to see what you decided on. I ended up ordering a 12qt case of the Kendall and I have an extra qt of Valvoline Maxlife on my shelf from when I did the power steering the last time. I'm just going to flush it using the cooler line to drain as I fill it starting with the Valvoline to get the flush going. I just want to get that 7 year old fluid out of the car and then I'll probably drop the pan and swap the filter at that point.
 
Funny because I have talked to quite a few respected guys in the auto rebuilding industry(including Carl Rossler) and they don't have any issue with synthetic fluids being used! Sounds like an old wives tale to me. I have a 92 suburban. Original trans went out @ 75K and ran conventional ATF(failure was not fluid related). Installed new trans with RedLine Synthetic ATF(DEXII). Now @ 209,000 and shifts like new. Countless others seem to have similar experiences with synthetic ATF when used in the 4L60 poor excuse for a transmission.

OP- Tell your builder its 2011, get a computer and take some classes!
 
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