Dexos Gen 2 THAT much different than SP?

Yes. I misspoke calling it a brand. It’s a set of GM specs. That being said, those specs are “recommended” not mandatory. The above article shows the formulators (and thus down stream) mentality that SP = Dexos.
Is there any license, specification or approval that is truly mandatory? Even with approvals no owner's manual nor warranty booklet I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty. Every one I have seen states that if the owner uses an oil that causes engine damage then that may not be covered (even here there is wiggle room), but never have I seen a statement that says use of an oil without a certain license or approval will void the warranty.
 
Searched and can't find a really good answer.
Just acquired a 2020 GMC Canyon, 3.6 V6. Obviously calls for Dexos gen 2. However, I have several Havoline High Mileage Synthetic Technology Motor Oil 5W/30 API-SP, ISLAC GF-6A 6 qt. boxes laying around, (VOA posted elsewhere). Without starting a digital fist fight or getting so far out in the weeds that an Asian carp can't survive, would using the Havoline be that detrimental to the engine? BTW, worst case scenario: 6 mo./5K mile OCI with Delco filter.
Well, you tried to keep the carp alive...
 
Is there any license, specification or approval that is truly mandatory? Even with approvals no owner's manual nor warranty booklet I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty. Every one I have seen states that if the owner uses an oil that causes engine damage then that may not be covered (even here there is wiggle room), but never have I seen a statement that says use of an oil without a certain license or approval will void the warranty.
A couple years ago, my wife bought a '11 Equinox with the 2.4 engine. From the day we got it , it used oil. 750 miles to a qt. I tried several Dexos rated oils, and nothing changed the consumption. Then one day, we got a letter from GM ,saying to bring the car to the dealer for evaluation. We did, and they didn't want to do anything about it. So being the Dexos rating you see on a bottle of oil is recommended by GM, and they charge the oil companies a fee, to put it on their bottle, I said **** them. It won't help you engine in any noticeable way, I started using various combinations of oil and finally got the consumption down to what I consider a reasonable amount. And none of the oils has a Dexos rating on the bottles. And guess what, the engine runs fine 50k miles into my test. If you have a GM product and have a factory installed problem, like my wife's car has, don't hold your breath waiting for GM to do anything about it.,,,
 

As Dexos was built off of ILSAC you should be able to use this tool to see the emphasis GM made in certain categories.
Again these are min spec. Many oils advertise significant improved performance vs the API/ILSAC "low bar"

Notice that Dexos1 Gen 2 NOACK bar was a mediocre 13% and will be "improved" to 12.5%

 
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No point to make but here is my first purchase of 5w30 Dexos 1 Gen 3 with, of course, the SP rating.

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Is there any license, specification or approval that is truly mandatory? Even with approvals no owner's manual nor warranty booklet I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty. Every one I have seen states that if the owner uses an oil that causes engine damage then that may not be covered (even here there is wiggle room), but never have I seen a statement that says use of an oil without a certain license or approval will void the warranty.
Check this out.
OEM BULLETIN
PSA
The Union of the European Lubricant Industry (UEIL) is the umbrella association of the European Lubricants Industry, representing their members and, in particular, the interests of SMEs and independent lubricant companies. To date, the UEIL represents more than 450 lubricant companies, who manufacture and distribute lubricant products under their own various trademarks throughout the European Union. With members in more than 22 European Countries and a unique collective experience of lubricants and the lubricants market, UEIL is the sole representative body for independent manufacturers of lubricants in Europe and has been recognised as such by the European Commission. It is UEIL’s policy to favour free and fair competition within the scope of prevailing EU and national laws.
First, UEIL has been made aware that PSA had disseminated a technical circular letter to its network in France stating it was compulsory to use lubricants approved by PSA.
Secondly, UEIL has been informed that some customers in the UK had experienced issues with PSA dealerships who had invalidated warranties due to using an engine oil which had not been approved by PSA.
Then we have drawn PSA’s attention to the fact that such statement and behaviour were clearly illegal and constituted a breach of EU regulation.
Following our intervention:
- PSA has sent a new circular letter to its network in France stating that it is compulsory to use suitable engine oils which comply with requested ACEA grade and PSA specification (no more reference to approval)
- PSA has sent an aftersales bulletin to its network in the UK specifying that:
o A warranty claim cannot be refused because the oil was not certified by PSA or did not comply with PSA specifications (B71****)
o Individual oil suppliers can ask for PSA approval or they can self-certify their oil product as compliant with PSA standards (and in such case PSA can request evidence of compliance)
o PSA reserves the rights to investigate further if oil is suspected as having caused or contributed to engine damage
o The Manufacturer’s Warranty will not apply if it is proven that it is the engine oil that has actually damaged the engine of the vehicle
UEIL thanks PSA for this clarification.
Brussels, January 2020
Is there any license, specification or approval that is truly mandatory? Even with approvals no owner's manual nor warranty booklet I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty. Every one I have seen states that if the owner uses an oil that causes engine damage then that may not be covered (even here there is wiggle room), but never have I seen a statement that says use of an oil without a certain license or approval will void the warranty.

Is there any license, specification or approval that is truly mandatory? Even with approvals no owner's manual nor warranty booklet I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty. Every one I have seen states that if the owner uses an oil that causes engine damage then that may not be covered (even here there is wiggle room), but never have I seen a statement that says use of an oil without a certain license or approval will void the warranty.
 
IMO, if Havoline SP rated oil causes issues in that GM 3.6....I'd say it's more an issue with the engine than the oil.
Also, it's possible that the Havoline does meet dexos gen2 specs but decided not to pay GM for their approval. I remember reading (when dexos first came out) that it cost 12 cents a quart to license dexos.
 
Is there any license, specification or approval that is truly mandatory? Even with approvals no owner's manual nor warranty booklet I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty. Every one I have seen states that if the owner uses an oil that causes engine damage then that may not be covered (even here there is wiggle room), but never have I seen a statement that says use of an oil without a certain license or approval will void the warranty


That language is exactly what you are asking about.

If a manufacturer says "Use of any oil other than that recommended may cause damage not covered by the warranty" it's exactly that.

No manufacturer is going to say "using an oil other than recommend will cause damage" for obvious reasons. You could put olive oil in the car and it may not cause damage.

They're also not going to say "...then your warranty is void". That's not even legal.


They're saying what is legal which is if you use an oil other than what the spec it may very well cause damage and they may very well not pay for it.

This is important enough that VW/ Audi use both a dye and a tracer chemical to ensure their specified oil was used.

I have personally witnessed oil tests completed by the manufacturer after an engine failure as well as a computer upload and pictures of tire treads before approval


Alfa Romeo

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Corvette...
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Audi / VW...


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Do you just sit and wait to post the same? Or do you just follow me around?

For one thing, the tracer is to ensure that an oil with an insufficient HT/HS (in this case VW 508 00) is not used in an engine for which it is not specified. It is to help prevent damage from an oil with an insufficient film thickness. Not the other way around. VW noted this when the approval came out. You, like many on this site, think it is to ensure its use in those vehicles for which it is specified as a valid approval. You’ve got it backwards.

And is as been the case in the other 20 times you posted the same information, the warranty is predicated on an oil that causes damage. In my personal case where I used 504 00 oil in my Tiguan (and requested that the dealer do the same for the two free oil changes) that oil will not cause damage.

It’s continuing to be the truth that there is no owner’s manual or warranty booklet language that ties a specific approval, specification, or grade to the warranty. Every single time it is about damage.
 
Do you just sit and wait to post the same? Or do you just follow me around?

For one thing, the tracer is to ensure that an oil with an insufficient HT/HS (in this case VW 508 00) is not used in an engine for which it is not specified. It is to help prevent damage from an oil with an insufficient film thickness. Not the other way around. VW noted this when the approval came out. You, like many on this site, think it is to ensure its use in those vehicles for which it is specified as a valid approval. You’ve got it backwards.

And is as been the case in the other 20 times you posted the same information, the warranty is predicated on an oil that causes damage. In my personal case where I used 504 00 oil in my Tiguan (and requested that the dealer do the same for the two free oil changes) that oil will not cause damage.

It’s continuing to be the truth that there is no owner’s manual or warranty booklet language that ties a specific approval, specification, or grade to the warranty. Every single time it is about damage.

?...that's ironic as I was responding to yet another post of your stating the same thing about manufacturers and oil recommendations and warranty.

Did you have a question about what I actually posted?

You are incorrect about the vw508. No idea where you got that from. The VW literature states vw508 can only be used in case that spec vw508. They put the tracer in to ensure it was used. Your position is that they use the tracer to make sure a dealership DIDN'T put in that oil is ridiculous as almost all vw508 oil changes were only dune by dealerships anyways. So if a dealership put in the wrong oil Audi would still have to cover it. Very odd piece of misinformation.


But that literally has nothing to do with what you posted. Back to topic yeah?

So you stated....

...I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty.

So Audi VW states...

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Hope that settles that for you and answers your question. Now you (and apparently I) don't have to go around posting the same thing again ;)
 
?...that's ironic as I was responding to yet another post of your stating the same thing about manufacturers and oil recommendations and warranty.

Did you have a question about what I actually posted?

You are incorrect about the vw508. No idea where you got that from. The VW literature states vw508 can only be used in case that spec vw508. They put the tracer in to ensure it was used. Your position is that they use the tracer to make sure a dealership DIDN'T put in that oil is ridiculous as almost all vw508 oil changes were only dune by dealerships anyways. So if a dealership put in the wrong oil Audi would still have to cover it. Very odd piece of misinformation.


But that literally has nothing to do with what you posted. Back to topic yeah?

So you stated....

...I have ever seen makes a direct tie between the listed approval and the new-car warranty.

So Audi VW states...

View attachment 158439


Hope that settles that for you and answers your question. Now you (and apparently I) don't have to go around posting the same thing again ;)
Yep. Damage. As is, and has always been the case, damage. Damage and nothing but damage.

And I suggest you seek out the VW press releases about 508 00. It was explicitly so that the oil would not be used in an engine that was not specified with that approval. No engine is damaged by an oil with a somewhat higher HT/HS. But an engine can be damaged by the use of one that is too low. WW is not stupid.

Back to topic yeah? Unless you want to get this thread locked like you did the others with your incessant posting of the same material.
 
Yep. Damage. As is, and has always been the case, damage. Damage and nothing but damage.

And I suggest you seek out the VW press releases about 508 00. It was explicitly so that the oil would not be used in an engine that was not specified with that approval. No engine is damaged by an oil with a somewhat higher HT/HS. But an engine can be damaged by the use of one that is too low. WW is not stupid.

Back to topic yeah? Unless you want to get this thread locked like you did the others with your incessant posting of the same material.

Glad to help. Yes damage warranties cover damage. Any component failure is called damage btw. It's defined in the warranty manual


The VW press release says it's not backwards compatible. It does not say the tracer dye and chemical is used for exclusionary reasons which again would make no sense because if a dealership put it in a vw504 spec engine they'd have to cover the repair anyways. But if you want to back up your assertion with a link to where it says this id love to see it. Thank you
 
Glad to help. Yes damage warranties cover damage. Any component failure is called damage btw. It's defined in the warranty manual


The VW press release says it's not backwards compatible. It does not say the tracer dye and chemical is used for exclusionary reasons which again would make no sense because if a dealership put it in a vw504 spec engine they'd have to cover the repair anyways. But if you want to back up your assertion with a link to where it says this id love to see it. Thank you
To use your favorite statement, at least we got that sorted out! Now we can move on.
 
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