Dexos Gen 2 THAT much different than SP?

Meaning, GM cannot legally require you to buy a Dexos branded product. They can only give it to you for free then.
You are partially correct: GM cannot require you to use a particular brand. The problem with your statement is that dexos is not a brand. It's a spec, just like SP is. dexos oils are available from many different companies/brands. (See the manual snip again..."dexos1 specification". Not brand, but spec.) Auto mfrs can require oil to meet a spec, whether that be an API spec like SP, or dexos.

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You are partially correct: GM cannot require you to use a particular brand. The problem with your statement is that dexos is not a brand. It's a spec, just like SP is. dexos oils are available from many different companies/brands.

The problem is legally, they’re tying you to them. (See my quote on the legalese.)

GM earns money from every gallon of dexos oil sold. Thus, they would be breaking the law if they mandated it.

They can only “recommend” using a Dexos oil.

If GM offered their spec for free - Ala API - it would be a standard.

The GM standard only applied to blenders (and thus additive companies) to meet their approval, for that stamp, for marketing purposes. (I.e the Dexos label.) And then the blender pays the licensing fee per gallon.
 
If GM offered their spec for free - Ala API - it would be a standard.
Where are you getting all this misinformation?

 
That does not even remotely mean the SP and dexos are equivalent.

It means technically and currently, API SP is the minimum standard for that vehicle. For the year it was made, it would actually be SN+, being the technical standard.

It says very clearly that these are the technical standards.

Can a Dexos oil be better than a non Dexos product? Yes.

Can a non dexos product be better than a Dexos product? Also yes.

What you’re looking for is a break down for formulations. Which, for confidentially reasons - I’m not going to get into.
 
API SP is the minimum standard for that vehicle. For the year it was made, it would actually be SN+, being the technical standard.

It says very clearly that these are the technical standards.
Please show where it says exactly that. Not you interpreting it that way, but a current GM vehicle manual actually saying that. OR, a GM or API doc explicitly stating that SP and dexos1 are equivalent.
 
Where are you getting all this misinformation?


Those do not go to GM. Those licensing fees are for use of the starburst and goes into the API sponsored programs and testing.

GM’s licensing fees go to GM.

(I write checks to the API as well.)
 
We get it. You don’t like the DEXOS scheme.

You still haven’t provided any documentation to back up the claim that API SP=DEXOS

This topic has been covered to death. DEXOS has always been a published and verifiable set performance benchmarks of API and ACEA testing that generally exceeds API/GF-x testing for that grade. That fact is immutable.

As it stands, GM went to great lengths to make sure it does not violate the brand, trade, or corporate name clause of 15 U.S.C.

We could argue the sinister ploy of tying the standard to sales royalties, and you’d get no argument from me. But in regards to a verifiable warranty standard on which the consumer warranty is based, GM would win this argument in court 100% of the time as it stands. So I go back to my original statement. Will it be detrimental to the OP’s engine? Not in the least. Could it cause a denial of warranty if non-DEXOS oil is deemed the root cause of failure? Absolutely.
 
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We get it. You don’t like the DEXOS scheme.

You still haven’t provided any documentation to back up the claim that API SP=DEXOS

This topic has been covered to death. DEXOS is published and verifiable set performance benchmarks of API and ACEA testing that exceeds GF-6. That fact is immutable.

As it stands, GM went to great lengths to make sure it does not violate the brand, trade, or corporate name clause of 15 U.S.C.

We could argue the sinister ploy of tying the standard to sales royalties, and you’d get no argument from me. But in regards to a verifiable warranty standard on which the consumer warranty is based, GM would win this argument in court 100% of the time as it stands. So I go back to my original statement. Will it be detrimental to the OP’s engine? Not in the least. Could it cause a denial of warranty if non-DEXOS oil is deemed the root cause of failure? Absolutely.

You can’t compare Dexos and SP. Because SP is one series of tests. Dexos is a different series of tests. The main difference being the NOACK test.

Dexos Gen 2 was built off SN.
Dexos Gen 3 was built off SP.

You can’t have a Dexos approved oil without it meeting SP. But you can have a SP oil that is better than Dexos. You can also take a non dexos oil, put in an API approved additive, and it’s a non dexos oil.

You’re asking for exact formulation and testing data. Which is not public information.

SP/GF6 is a set of Minimum requirements. (In case of certain additives like ZDDP and such, maximum legally allowed.)

You can exceed SP greatly. Thus why you can have a synthetic blend 5w30 SP oil. That oil will never be Dexos approved.

You can also have a very very robust full synthetic that would exceed SP and Dexos, but will never be Dexos approved. So trying to say one is greater than the other is completely situational and completely formulation based.

GM would have to show that oil caused failure. Which being an SP oil, they couldn’t do unless the oil was formulated wrong. In which case, it would go to the oil manufacturer.


Also, I don’t particularly care about Dexos one way or another. I think it’s dumb, but GM makes tens of millions of it. I’m a capitalist. Good for them. People fall for marketing.
 
That is from the API.

GM has a seat on the council that makes up the engine oil standards with API. Thus, they are a signatory to the minimum standards.
I give up. You refuse to have a discussion in good faith. You claim dexos is a brand instead of a spec. When I show it is a spec, then you want it to be a standard. You claim that GM participating in API means that SP=dexos1, yet provide no statements from either GM or API to back this up. I ask for documentation from a GM manual, and you provide a generic statement about oil from the AP, not related to any vehicle mfr. You claim that API licensing is free, when in fact, it in not. I choose not to spend any more time playing your games (constantly changing definitions, falsehoods, etc).
 
I give up. You refuse to have a discussion in good faith. You claim dexos is a brand instead of a spec. When I show it is a spec, then you want it to be a standard. You claim that GM participating in API means that SP=dexos1, yet provide no statements from either GM or API to back this up. I ask for documentation from a GM manual, and you provide a generic statement about oil from the AP, not related to any vehicle mfr. You claim that API licensing is free, when in fact, it in not. I choose not to spend any more time playing your games (constantly changing definitions, falsehoods, etc).


Older article about Dexos Gen 2 and SP:

But important quote:

“Although GF-6 and dexos1 have different performance criteria, most of the lubricants industry would like to develop one engine oil that meets both specifications.”

Yes. I misspoke calling it a brand. It’s a set of GM specs. That being said, those specs are “recommended” not mandatory. The above article shows the formulators (and thus down stream) mentality that SP = Dexos.

API specs are the minimum needed for warranty purposes in the US.

Two more older articles:


Addressing concerns, both P66 and Valvoline didn’t have a Dexos product for years. P66 finally merged their product lines simply out of cost, to have a Dexos license mainline product with GF6.


This one is particularly fun at the end:
“GM has indicated that those customers are fine to use the API-specification oil without voiding the warranty.”

Of course, it was GM making that statement to fleet customers at the time… to be specific. However the point still stands.
 
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The problem is legally, they’re tying you to them. (See my quote on the legalese.)

GM earns money from every gallon of dexos oil sold. Thus, they would be breaking the law if they mandated it.

They can only “recommend” using a Dexos oil.

If GM offered their spec for free - Ala API - it would be a standard.

The GM standard only applied to blenders (and thus additive companies) to meet their approval, for that stamp, for marketing purposes. (I.e the Dexos label.) And then the blender pays the licensing fee per gallon.

I don't now why people have such a hard time with this but they do.
 
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