Delvac 1300 & Group III Price Points?

[outrun]

"Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 10W-30 and 15W-40 are formulated with a) optimized baseoil technology containing severely hydroprocessed base stocks"

Source: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSE2CVLMOMobil_Delvac_1300_Super.asp

My dilemna here has little to do with the PAO vs Group III feud. However, at Walmart a 1-gallon jug of 1300 Delvac 15W40 goes for 12.00!! Here is where I get weirded out. For all these years Castrol and other companies were selling "full synthetic" Group III lubricants at the same price of Mobil 1 or Amsoil comprised of more expensive base stocks.

Now we have 1300 sold at the price of a mineral oil. I am assuming here that "severly hydroprocessed" means Group III base stocks. Is this a fair market price for a Group III oil or is Mobil 1 trying to liquidate surplus or edge out a competitor (like Shell's high quality and unique Group III Rotella Syn) ?

Anyway, all in all this oil is a bargain and seems to have incredible service intervals when used by fleet trucking operators.

 

[SuperDave456]

I went by Sam's today to check out their deals on oils. They had 6 gallons of that for $60. I was shocked.
Too bad I only have a single vehicle that uses the stuff.

 

[Steve S]

Delvac 1300 is mineral oil.

 

[bullwinkle]

As are many "so-called" synthetics!

 

[outrun]

"containing severely hydroprocessed base stocks"

I am confused here. All the board information moves toward the conclusion that severely hydro processed can not be Group I, and very likely not GroupII/II+.

Granted a Group III is based on a mineral oil.

That still leaves the question of is Delvac 1300 Group III by Mobil's description of severe hydroprocessing? The impression I get from other posts as it is futile to email Mobil1 about base oil compositions.

http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/motoroil.htm

Look at this sources description of Group III base stocks. Of further not at the end is description of (natural) Gas-to-Liquid created base oils. I would call that synthesis any day of the week

"Group III. Severely hydrotreated mineral oils with sulfur content between 0.001 and 0.01%; VI in excess of 120. These are considered VHVI (very high viscosity index) mineral base stocks. They behave like synthetics in VI but have much higher pour points (-20C versus -54C for PAO) which must be modified with pour point depressants for lower temperature use. They have lower oxidation stability than Group IV or V oils. These are made in proprietary processes by Shell, Exxon, and others.

*New Gas-to-Liquid base stock lubricating oils are being developed for market introduction in 2005 that will compete with Group III and PAO at costs similar to Group I. These will enter the passenger car motor oil market in response to demands for more 0W oils. They are created using catalysis of natural gas and have properties similar to PAO."

 

[outrun]

Delvac 1300 Super

Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270

10W30: 145
15W40: 137

Source: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/P...sApprovalsTitle

Well at least this post taught me some information on VIs According to other sources (some of which are older) this level of VI seems to be in the Group III range ... unless VI technology has significantly changed since.

Source2: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

 

[outrun]

Possibly answered by Mobil.com - Australia. So, now I wonder why Mobil will not advertise Delvac 1300 as Synthetic to compete with Rotella T?

"There Are Four Different Types of Motor Oil Base Stocks

We know that basestock composition has a significant effect on the overall performance of motor oil. There are four different types of base stock used in the motor oil market today.
Group 1 - Conventional - Mineral oil derived from crude oil
Group 2 - Hydroprocessed - Highly refined mineral oil
Group 3 – Severe hydroprocessed - Ultra refined mineral oil
Group 4 – Full synthetics (chemically derived) - Chemically built Polyalphaolefins (PAO)"

Source: http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/LCW/Audiences/Synthetic_V_Mineral.asp

 

[Oldwolf]

If they called it synthetic no one would buy it for $10. "Its too cheap, must not be any good".

 

[Jaymus]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
As are many "so-called" synthetics!


If it's a Group III "just like" Rotella-T 5W-40, why don't they make it a 5W-40? Also, the VI of Rotella-T is higher. I love Delvac as a conventional, but I wouldn't go calling it a synthetic (by today's standards) just yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qRXG2mf9is

Quite the difference.

 

[outrun]

Originally Posted By: Oldwolf
If they called it synthetic no one would buy it for $10. "Its too cheap, must not be any good".


I think we nailed it then! If Mobil defined Delvac 1300 as a Synthetic that could threaten there premium Delvac 1 line. Furthermore, since Delvac 1300 is highly presumable to be Group III at now 10.00$ a gallon I think we have an incredible bargain on our hands. I am not knocking Chevron Delo's ISO-SYN base stock or even Rotella with there sophisticated slack-wax based Group III synthesis. Now if 10W30 Delvac 1300 was more available (outside a distributor) ...

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: outrun
"Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 10W-30 and 15W-40 are formulated with a) optimized baseoil technology containing severely hydroprocessed base stocks"


If their statement says "formulated with" and "contains", that only means that the base oil mixture includes some Group III, not that it is 100% Group III. It may very well have a majority of Groups I or II.

Tom NJ

 

[outrun]

"It may very well have a majority of Groups I or II."

Additives could add boost the index value certainly. This oil is known to be shear stable. Lubricants full of VI improvers are notorious for their shear happy nature. 15W40 rated at 145 is statistically significant over the 120 max range of a Group II/II+. The page does remark to the affect a Group II/II+/III blend is easily within reason. Again my source data is dated and additive and base oil refinement methods have sure improved since.

Group I : 80-120
Group II : 80-120
Group III : 120+
Group IV : 120-145
Group V : "All Others"

Slide #4 & #12 are neat breakdowns

Source: World Base Oils Conference (2005)

http://www.atiel.org/members/pdf_files/Gp III Conoco Bell.pdf

 

[Tom NJ]

There are many different chemistries for VI Improvers, and they vary widely in their shear stability. In addition, many premium VI Improvers are "pre-sheared": they are less efficient in raising VI and require a higher dose, but produce a shear stable finished oil. Also VI synergies exist between certain base oils where the base oil blend has a higher VI than arithmetically calculated from its components.

Unless you know the type, quantity, and shear stability of the VI Improvers used, as well as other additives and base oils that affect VI, you cannot predict the base oil VI from the finished oil VI.

Tom NJ