Delta cancelling flights - claiming staffing shortage

[y_p_w]

Didn't they avoid furloughs last year by their unions agreeing to reduced guaranteed hours? Or did that just apply to pilots?

Delta cancels over 100 flights, opens some middle seats

DETROIT (AP) — Delta Air Lines canceled about 100 flights Sunday due to staff shortages, and it opened up middle seats a month earlier than expected in order to carry more passengers.

www.ajc.com

 

[M56959]

Reopening on review

 

[Astro14]

Avoiding furlough, and having trained crews, are not really the same thing, though they appear to be on the surface.

I don't know if DAL staffing shortage was a pilot thing, or flight attendant thing, but I do know that when DAL reached the agreement with their pilots, they had already begun the furlough and retrain process. Thousands of pilots were affected and moved off their airplane. Thousands more were offered time off at reduced pay. This left thousands of pilots unqualified to fly the airplane they had been flying, either because they had been off for too long, or they had started training on a different airplane. Further, they retired over a thousand pilots with an early out package. Finally, DAL parked several hundred airplanes. There are lots of pilots who were qualified to fly those, who now have no airplane on which they are qualified and DAL hasn't been able to send them to training, yet.

Retirements tend to be from the left seat of wide bodies. Furloughs from the right seat of narrow bodies. The two staffing reduction efforts disproportionally affect certain fleet/seat/domicile groups, leaving big gaps in some, and leaving others unaffected. The paid time off affected every fleet.

So, they have enough pilots, but they're unevenly distributed as a result of Delta's decisions last spring and summer. They have thousands of unqualified pilots at the moment, again, the result of Delta's decision to shrink before reaching the agreement with their pilots.

Re-establishing pilot qualification is slow, and limited by the through-put of their training center. An impressive facility (I've spent some time there) in Atlanta, but there are limits on the number of crews that can be put through.

So, plenty of pilots, but not enough who are current and qualified in the airplanes that DAL planned to fly. This is a failure in planning. I expect that DAL won't be the only airline facing this challenge this summer.

I will say that there is an airline that made a big effort (read: spent money) in keeping pilots current and qualified. That airline will be able to respond with agility to changing demand for air travel. The wisdom of strategic vision: being prepared for the future by current investment and making decisions with an eye to the long term.

That one airline in particular announced last week that they are resuming pilot hiring - not for this summer, but to be in a position of strategic advantage next summer. This aligns with their decision to retain all their airplanes, to order new airplanes, and to keep all their pilots. All in stark contrast with both DAL and AA who shed airplanes and planned to shed crews, leaving them unprepared to respond with agility to changing market conditions.

 

[GON]

On a flight right now, departed Salt Lake City at 0600 for Dallas. I fly 8-12 flights per week. Almost every flight is full, morning, afternoon, and night. The people flying during weekdays seems to have changed over the past six months, from businesspeople to families. With every flight full, when a issue happens, there is very limited capacity to absorb the fliers. The standby lists are always very long. The standby list for my 0600 morning flight was over a dozen.

Not sure if every flight full will continue after the stimulus checks get spent. Not only are flights sold out, so are rental cars. I am heading to McDill today, and my rental car is $300 for two days (compact). Lots of weirdness in the entire domestic travel industry right now.

As for one airline ready to absorb capacity..... that is great, they have always had the very best commercial pilots........ to bad that same airline treats their passengers poorly.... not by the crews, but by design of management. And people I know who work for that airline also state they treat their employees just as bad. Maybe Kirby is changing things, but have to say I would rather drive 1,000 miles than fly...

 

[wpod]

Some businesses need to go out of business and new business started. Some times the destruction from within can not usually be fixed with a taxpayer bail out as the corroision hasn't been removed before the new paint will be applied.

 

[pghvolvo]

This is what happens when you plan for the moment and not six months to year or more out. Even if Delta starts to gear up for more capacity, they're going to be behind the demand for a couple years. The only way out quickly is poaching pilots from other airlines, which with their history isn't likely to happen.

 

[Hermann]

Not sure if every flight full will continue after the stimulus checks get spent. Not only are flights sold out, so are rental cars. I am heading to McDill today, and my rental car is $300 for two days (compact). Lots of weirdness in the entire domestic travel industry right now.

Our whole supply/demand chain is broken, and the greedster's are taking full advantage.

 

[Kuato]

This is what happens when you plan for the moment and not six months to year or more out. Even if Delta starts to gear up for more capacity, they're going to be behind the demand for a couple years. The only way out quickly is poaching pilots from other airlines, which with their history isn't likely to happen.

Even a poached pilot requires a lengthy training cycle prior to flying the airplane. Delta will be playing catch up for quite awhile.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

The level of ignorance is mind boggling. Internet experts.

Where I live , the aviation sector is the only one not “ bailed out” and many who oppose them getting a “ bailout” ( even though they were highly profitable before last spring ) are people who work in places that have been bailed but have an irrational hate on for airlines.

I do not live in the u.s but this topic is a global problem.

The media in my country is very anti airline, opposes airlines getting a “ tax payer bailout” even though the media ( was losing money before last spring ) hypocritically received a massive tax payer bailout a few years ago but do not disclose that when they write editorials and Op Ed’s about the airlines. I always remind them with an email.

Warren Buffett felt u.s ( all ) airlines were so well run, profitable and had learned from previous mistakes ( which resulted in chapter 11, mergers , better management ) that he got back into investing in them, until last spring. The reason he lost faith in them this time wasn’t because they were poorly managed like before ( “ need to go bankrupt“ to learn one poster said ) but because he just sees them as too vulnerable to external factors that can even hurt the best run, most profitable airlines. I totally agree with him.

whenever I hear other people use the word “ tax payer bailout” since last spring, I always want to know what they do for a living given how much tax payer money has bailed out so many people where I live.

 

[E365]

There was a recent agreement between Delta and their pilot’s Union which pays pilots somewhere in the $1,000-$3,000 range to get the COVID vaccine, depending on who the pilot is and which vaccine they get.

These issues are largely caused by the rush of pilots getting vaccinated, not some huge planning failure. Everything will be back to normal very soon. The agreement allows a pilot to “drop” a trip with no consequence as long as they give the company enough notice. Or just call in sick with no consequence if you can’t give enough notice. You also can’t fly for 48 hours after the shot, so you can’t just get a vaccination on your way into work or something.

Funny when you throw in some cash how many people change their tunes

And unblocking the middle seat temporarily to add capacity means the 100 or so cancelled flights had relatively little effect on the passengers. There was room on the next flight to fit a large percentage of the people from the canceled flight onto it.

When Delta middle-seat-blocking ends in May, systemwide capacity goes up immediately about 30%.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

U.S airlines ( same in my country ) where very profitable/well managed and the problems they are facing today are not their fault. They do not need to go through another bankruptcy to “learn” as it’s not their fault.

Things can change fast and aviation too often gets hurt worse than other industries. Itd extremely capital intensive with huge fixed costs.

American Airlines once bragged how his airline would “ never lose money again“ ( google it ) ...”because the industry has radically changed“. That was before last Spring. I would NEVER say that in aviation.

I am a strong defender of employees in this industry given the unique challenges it faces.

 

[GON]

U.S airlines ( same in my country ) where very profitable/well managed and the problems they are facing today are not their fault. They do not need to go through another bankruptcy to “learn” as it’s not their fault.

Things can change fast and aviation too often gets hurt worse than other industries. Itd extremely capital intensive with huge fixed costs.

American Airlines once bragged how his airline would “ never lose money again“ ( google it ) ...”because the industry has radically changed“. That was before last Spring. I would NEVER say that in aviation.

I am a strong defender of employees in this industry given the unique challenges it faces.

American Airlines Chairman Doug Parker.... estimated net worth before merging US AIR with bankrupt American Air, high seven to very low eight figures. Two years after merging the two, he SOLD over 100 million dollars with of AA stock. All while using AAs cash and borrowing to buy back billions of dollars worth of AA stock. While American had the highest debt of any airline in the world. Instead of paying down the debt, or keeping the cash for a rainy day- he did a multi-billion dollar stock buyback.

And of course, American came out of BK with more debt than it went into BK with, and had higher wages for all its union employees. All a con so he could ring the register.

And of course Chairman Parker was first in line at the White House for a bailout....

 

[4WD]

Think I’ll have a Seagrams Ginger Ale on a UAL flight …

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

American Airlines Chairman Doug Parker.... estimated net worth before merging US AIR with bankrupt American Air, high seven to very low eight figures. Two years after merging the two, he SOLD over 100 million dollars with of AA stock. All while using AAs cash and borrowing to buy back billions of dollars worth of AA stock. While American had the highest debt of any airline in the world. Instead of paying down the debt, or keeping the cash for a rainy day- he did a multi-billion dollar stock buyback.

And of course, American came out of BK with more debt than it went into BK with, and had higher wages for all its union employees. All a con so he could ring the register.

And of course Chairman Parker was first in line at the White House for a bailout....

Are you suggesting that AA would not need a “tax payer bailout“ had he worked even for free and never engaged in buying back shares ( or would not be first in line ....all airlines were “lined up” ). What about SWA ( think they never lost money before )?

I am not saying I agree with it but every other airline is looking for a “bailout“. Even Emirates airlines wouldn’t have survived without one and they used to get mad when accused of being helped by their government.

I had my own Federal politician call my home and get mad ( sent him an email asking what help they will give airlines ....since my tax money is already bailing out other industries ) and IMMEDIATELY brought up ....” Your CEOs pay and pension“ ( ceo was about to retire ) and how he “doesn‘t want tax payer money going to him”. Despite the fact this wealthy paid CEO had contributed more to the economy ( GDP, well paid jobs ) than any govt has been able to do, the focus was all about CEO compensation and his pension.

Where I live, lots of industries have been bailed out by tax payers and several of them were still paying out dividends and laying off while receiving it.

I cannot disagree with you about AA but I see this problem with lots of bailed out companies where I live. I just recall Warren Buffet saying airlines in the u.s saying they were well managed even though he pulled out of them ( he said they are subject to problems beyond their control even if well run ).

Reminds me of this well known expert from a prominent university in this country who is very critical of the airlines ( says do not feel sorry for them , do not “bail them out “ ). He says they should have been smart enough to buy pandemic insurance ( but does not criticize all the other industries and business his tax money is bailing out because they never bought pandemic insurance either ) but fails to point out even universities ( they never bought pandemic insurance ) are being hurt because they rely on foreign students ( much higher tuition fees ) but they are not comimg as much due to travel restrictions which is why my airline isn’t profitable. The irony is, no airline has gone bankrupt where I live ( even with no specific help ) but we just had a university go bankrupt for the very reasons I mentioned ( and it will eventually get a tax payer bailout ). AWOL with the professor.

The airlines contribute to more economic prosperity to a country than they will ever cost tax payers , at least in my country.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t all airlines in the u.s get an equal amount of aid? Anyone mad at AA getting tax payers money should realize even the “better run” ones got the same amount so it’s not like it got more help because of its CEOs compensation etc.

 

[y_p_w]

Re-establishing pilot qualification is slow, and limited by the through-put of their training center. An impressive facility (I've spent some time there) in Atlanta, but there are limits on the number of crews that can be put through.

Are there any third party training centers that could be utilized?

 

[GON]

Are you suggesting that AA would not need a “tax payer bailout“ had he worked even for free and never engaged in buying back shares ( or would not be first in line ....all airlines were “lined up” ). What about SWA ( think they never lost money before )?

I am not saying I agree with it but every other airline is looking for a “bailout“. Even Emirates airlines wouldn’t have survived without one and they used to get mad when accused of being helped by their government.

I had my own Federal politician call my home and get mad ( sent him an email asking what help they will give airlines ....since my tax money is already bailing out other industries ) and IMMEDIATELY brought up ....” Your CEOs pay and pension“ ( ceo was about to retire ) and how he “doesn‘t want tax payer money going to him”. Despite the fact this wealthy paid CEO had contributed more to the economy ( GDP, well paid jobs ) than any govt has been able to do, the focus was all about CEO compensation and his pension.

Where I live, lots of industries have been bailed out by tax payers and several of them were still paying out dividends and laying off while receiving it.

I cannot disagree with you about AA but I see this problem with lots of bailed out companies where I live. I just recall Warren Buffet saying airlines in the u.s saying they were well managed even though he pulled out of them ( he said they are subject to problems beyond their control even if well run ).

Reminds me of this well known expert from a prominent university in this country who is very critical of the airlines ( says do not feel sorry for them , do not “bail them out “ ). He says they should have been smart enough to buy pandemic insurance ( but does not criticize all the other industries and business his tax money is bailing out because they never bought pandemic insurance either ) but fails to point out even universities ( they never bought pandemic insurance ) are being hurt because they rely on foreign students ( much higher tuition fees ) but they are not comimg as much due to travel restrictions which is why my airline isn’t profitable. The irony is, no airline has gone bankrupt where I live ( even with no specific help ) but we just had a university go bankrupt for the very reasons I mentioned ( and it will eventually get a tax payer bailout ). AWOL with the professor.

The airlines contribute to more economic prosperity to a country than they will ever cost tax payers , at least in my country.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t all airlines in the u.s get an equal amount of aid? Anyone mad at AA getting tax payers money should realize even the “better run” ones got the same amount so it’s not like it got more help because of its CEOs compensation etc.

In 2019, American Airlines spent $1.1 billion on buybacks, at an average cost of $32.09, according to company disclosures. In fact, from July 2014 to December 2019, American Airlines spent $12.4 billion on stock buybacks at an average weighted cost per share of $39.76, according to disclosures.

I do not condone socializing an industry’s losses and privatize its profits. If AA went bankrupt, it would of kept flying. History clearly shows major USA Domestic carriers go BK and keep flying. Some airlines and many big banks seem to be huge paycheck winners for their senior leadership, regardless of how they steer the ship.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

In 2019, American Airlines spent $1.1 billion on buybacks, at an average cost of $32.09, according to company disclosures. In fact, from July 2014 to December 2019, American Airlines spent $12.4 billion on stock buybacks at an average weighted cost per share of $39.76, according to disclosures.

I do not condone socializing an industry’s losses and privatize its profits. If AA went bankrupt, it would of kept flying. History clearly shows major USA Domestic carriers go BK and keep flying. Some airlines and many big banks seem to be huge paycheck winners for their senior leadership, regardless of how they steer the ship.

So, it has nothing to do with the CEO of AA, you just don’t feel any airline ( even ones where the CEO isn’t “greedy” and buying back shares ) should get a“bailout“ even when government restrictions caused them , disproportionately, to lose money ( contributed , not the sole reason ) when they weren’t losing money before ( 99% why in my country ).

What Is fair and ethical about that?

let me switch to the airlines where I live if you don’t mind even though the article is about Delta and the u.s ( but people brought up letting them go bankrupt and bailouts talk ).

Where I live, we have the same anti airline, “ no bailout“ attitude from the Media ( who got bailed out two years ago and never had to go through chapter 11 first but never remind people that....I do ) and people/ businesses who are all getting bailed out now by tax payers ( hypocrites or what ). They confuse “ bailout“ with help as it was govt policy that has prevented them from flying many places and has actually discouraged the public from doing it even where it’s allowed. No other industry in my country is dealing with the same punitive restrictions to that level. Why should an airline be forced into bankruptcy and all the harm it does to employees when it’s not their fault.

There is a very well known guy in this country who is extremely anti bailout ( for valid reasons ....they are always losing money ) but I was surprised to see him ( considered an expert ) not feel that way with the airlines and gets irritated with people who use the term “bailout” when it’s the govt who has caused them problems at least where I live.

Most airlines where I live have not asked for a bailout , they just want a coherent plan to get back flying even though the Govt has cost them money ( more than any other industry , the restrictions ).

I am not a bailout fan myself but if govt policy is the main reason why a previous highly profitable industry is now losing money ( compared to others ) , you bet I am. Thats intervention the other way.

 

[wildcatgoal]

[Insert "my tax dollars hard at work" comment here.]

[Insert "g'dam democrats" comment here.]

[Insert "evil republicans" comment here.]

[Insert "United is still the worst airline to fly on" comment here.]

 

[PimTac]

let me switch to the airlines where I live if you don’t mind even though the article is about Delta and the u.s

May I ask where you live?

A number of countries want their national airlines to keep going even if they are in financial distress.

 

[Astro14]

People keep using “bailouts”.

It’s a specious term in this case.

Government action shut down business. Completely. They prohibited airlines from doing business, period. They told people not to fly domestically. Airline traffic dropped by 95%. Revenue at most majors was NEGATIVE. They paid out refunds for tickets as people cancelled while they took in zero booking dollars. They still had to pay leases on gates and aircraft, and still had to pay debt service and employees. Losses were billions every month at each carrier. Some carriers have ceased operations, and they will never return.

As an industry, globally, layoffs hit about 50% of total employees. Not even World Wars have had that kind of economic impact.

So, while airlines bankruptcies happened before, they were from much smaller revenue impacts than this. 9-11 caused a loss of revenue but it recovered far faster. Airlines were prepared for another 9-11.

Some better than others.

But this was ten times worse. Perhaps more.

Previous bankruptcies were chapter 11 - reorganizations. This time, airlines were facing liquidation. They don’t come back from that, not in the short term. The carriers that had been through chapter 11 would have had to file for chapter 7, both from magnitude of impact and from US law that doesn’t allow multiple reorganization filings.

We would have had several US airlines liquidate and shut down, forever.

It would’ve been great for United to watch American go under. And it would have without government aid. Make no mistake, American was on the brink. DAL was in the middle. UA and SWA were strong.

UA would’ve taken over Chicago and New York. Again great for UA.

But, even UA and SWA couldn’t have expanded fast enough to meet the rebound in the economy and passenger travel that is starting now. Fewer companies, tighter supply. Fares would’ve gone up considerably. Again, great for the survivors.

If the consumer wanted a choice in air travel, and the US domestic market is 50% of the world’s air travel, then action had to be taken to preserve the weaker companies, or the industry would look vastly different now.

As an ethical matter, if governments stop an entire industry from conducting business, they either have to be prepared for their failure, and the consequences of lost capacity and tighter supply, or those same governments have to accept some financial responsibility for their decisions in order to preserve the industry that they shut down.

The US chose the latter path, so did many other nations in support of their national carriers, but not every nation did.