Dealership Mess Up?

A blocked oil pickup resulting in enough lack of oil so that the engine oil light comes on, compounded by idiot drivers who do not shut down the engine when the oil light comes on is how excess RTV would damage an engine.

Some types of RTV are not healthy for catalatic converters. But verry little gets into the oil, and then it has to get into the cylinder and into the exhaust. And even then little of what makes it into the exhaust gets into contact with the inside of the catalatic converter.

And it has to be the wrong kind of RTV in the first place for it to have any posability of causing any problem with the catalatic converter.

The excess RTV very likely caused absolutely on additional reduction in the life of your engine and catalatic converter.
 
slo town said:
Thing is, the TSB said to apply a 4.5mm bead. A 4.5mm bead?!! Really? These must be some genuinely sloppy tolerances on that composite oil pan. What makes The Critic's video even worse is the guy who slobbered on that 7mm or 8mm bead did it on a presumably perfectly flat aluminum surface. A 1mm bead should have been more than sufficient. But he probably distorted the piece by using a crowbar to pry it off.

Whenever I use RTV to seal something like this the RTV bead is smaller than the diameter of the lead in a #2 wooden pencil. And even then I'll see RTV squeeze out in areas.

Scott
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4.5mm is not uncommon for stamped items that are not "precision-machined." Toyota specs 3.5mm-4.0mm for their timing covers and 5.0mm on the notorious "T-Joint" areas.

If you are getting a decent amount of squeeze-out from using 1mm, that tells me the surfaces are very very well machined and an anaerobic sealant (e.g. Loctite 518) may be a better and safer choice.

bdcardinal said:
Some techs will not use the TA-357 RTV anymore and use the old TA-31 that was used on the 7.3L diesel.
Click to expand...
Supposedly TA-357= Loctite SI 5900 = Permatex Right Stuff Black.
 
Khaos said:
Hi all. I'm hoping the experts on here can weigh in or point me in the right direction.

I brought my 2016 F-150 (2.7L) into the dealership a couple years ago for a leaking oil pan (TSB 19-2205). Well it started leaking again and it was out of warranty so I had to fix it myself. Okay, no big deal. I just finished dropping the pan and needless to say I'm shocked at how much RTV sealant they used. These models don't have gaskets and instead use the RTV, but the TSB itself says that, "using too much sealant may result in oil contamination and engine damage."

Do I have any recourse to ask the dealership to replace the engine? (I'm guessing I don't?) I'm concerned that their excessive RTV use is going to create engine problems for me down the line. Not to mention that the engine block has uneven gouges in it which I think will continue to create leaking issues for me down the line too. Hoping you guys can take a look at the video I took (link below) and let me know what you think I can do. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!




PS.
I have another video from my first oil change after their work on the oil pan where I found some creamy sludge in the oil. Not sure if that was related or not but here's a link to that as well if it helps.

Click to expand...

You have to think and ask yourself... You can see everything and are in best position to answer this. Can I provide any real evidence that FORD mechanics did anything wrong? Did the dealership mechanics do something wrong that you have bonafide proof of? This is what it boils down to. Do they admit doing it? Can you show / proof they really did?
 
slo town said:
Useful insight as usual, bdcardinal. 👍

The problem I have is that oil pans have been on cars for 100 years now. It's it inexcusable that the 2.7 pans are "notorious for leaking". Yes, most things will eventually leak, but this is unacceptable.

Scott
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Also what's fun, well not really I have a messed up idea of fun, the pan is not reusable. The 6.7L diesel is like that also, the lower pan is not reusable.
 
You should see the upper oil pan warranty reseal job they did on my 6.7 PSD…. I would estimate an inch of RTV hanging on the OUTSIDE of the pan, every time I see it I cringe about what’s on the inside.

If I didn’t need to remove the transmission, oil cooler and some other items I’d fix it myself, but I’ll wait until it leaks.
 
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slo town said:
Thing is, the TSB said to apply a 4.5mm bead. A 4.5mm bead?!! Really? These must be some genuinely sloppy tolerances on that composite oil pan. What makes The Critic's video even worse is the guy who slobbered on that 7mm or 8mm bead did it on a presumably perfectly flat aluminum surface. A 1mm bead should have been more than sufficient. But he probably distorted the piece by using a crowbar to pry it off.

Whenever I use RTV to seal something like this the RTV bead is smaller than the diameter of the lead in a #2 wooden pencil. And even then I'll see RTV squeeze out in areas.

Scott
Click to expand...
Slo, I bet you right about the crowbar and the use of too much RTV.
My son had a Jeep vehicle years ago. He kept having pan leaks. We finally go to the dealership. Now here it gets pathetic. Service Manager with a big almost laughing smile! Tells us something like "oh man you guys in trouble. Those pans are made so cheap when we do a service job we gotta charge you for a new pan because there is no way to remove the old one without warpping it! Jeep makes them so cheap." He actually tells us this like he is proud. Of course we walked out on him after his next smart alec news blurb... "The next bit of bad news is we got none in stock!"

Simply Pathetic and now we know why the Big Three are vanishing..... Also I used to do the same as you with the "limited - only the most needed amont of RTV" and it also got me thinking. Real RTV if that is what they are using is the wrong sealant. There are certain products specifically made for those applications and most are called "form a gasket / or permatek or gasket sealant ... etc." Makes you wonder what on earth they are doing. That is outrageous these companies making and selling this type of stuff for the customer to have to deal with. Everyone is not a mechanic so lots of folks at the mercy of these slip shod yankers we run across at some shops. At least the guys lucky enough to be mechanically inclined can see and catch some of this foolishness and at times come up with a better fix on their own. OK .... All Dealership Techs can curse me out now.;) I know you guys on BITOG can not do that type of shoddy work or you wouldn't even care to be here advising us time to time.
 
Khaos said:
Gotcha. Thanks for the input guys. My other question about the engine block casting issue. I didn't spend much time on it in the video but I think that's the culprit of my leak. They are big enough that I think they could create a repeat issue. Is there anything I can do to have them solve the problem?
Click to expand...

Take a small fine file & file down any high spots. The RTV will make up for any low spots present.

I have no issues using a razor blade to remove RTV from flat Rails/Flanges, You just have to be careful not to gouge the Aluminum. I've trained my apprentice on this using junk engines as it does require some experience/repetition to get a good handle on it.
Plastic Razor Blades might be the best choice for you?

I've found a Pocket sized flat blade screwdriver works well to remove RTV that's been packed into holes/passages, Stick it in at the edge of the passage & apply pressure toward the outside using the screwdriver to cut the RTV out.

Then you will want to clean the pan sealing surface of the engine VERY well.....
*Start with a Brake Clean soaked rag (Terry Towel & Micro Fiber preferably), Make several passes, Until the rag returns clean wipes.
*Make another pass using Isopropyl Alcohol on a clean rag.
*Even though the Pan itself is new, Clean the sealing surface with Alcohol & dry it completely before laying down the RTV.
*If the bolts holes are packed with RTV.....Chase the threads to remove as much of the dried RTV as possible.

Your biggest hurdle is installing the Pan without bumping the RTV Bead into things, I'm going to guess that you're doing this on the ground/floor laying on your back?
It may be wise to make a couple "Dry Runs" at this to get a technique down.
 
slo town said:
Thing is, the TSB said to apply a 4.5mm bead. A 4.5mm bead?!! Really? These must be some genuinely sloppy tolerances on that composite oil pan. What makes The Critic's video even worse is the guy who slobbered on that 7mm or 8mm bead did it on a presumably perfectly flat aluminum surface. A 1mm bead should have been more than sufficient. But he probably distorted the piece by using a crowbar to pry it off.

Whenever I use RTV to seal something like this the RTV bead is smaller than the diameter of the lead in a #2 wooden pencil. And even then I'll see RTV squeeze out in areas.

Scott
Click to expand...
Spray foam!
 
So we live in a world where it's not enough for someone else to simply make a mistake and you get compensated - there have to be "damages" and you have to show damages. The reason for this is in most cases mistakes aren't malicious and as such the goal is to simply make the person who incurred the damages whole again - it is not to punish someone for making an honest mistake. What damages have you incurred from excessive sealer?
 
PWMDMD said:
So we live in a world where it's not enough for someone else to simply make a mistake and you get compensated - there have to be "damages" and you have to show damages. The reason for this is in most cases mistakes aren't malicious and as such the goal is to simply make the person who incurred the damages whole again - it is not to punish someone for making an honest mistake. What damages have you incurred from excessive sealer?
Click to expand...
Was this a mistake or incompetence? I wouldn't let that guy in the video wash my windshield. He'd grind his pants zipper into the fenders and claim it was a "mistake".

Scott
 
The Critic said:
I like how he always says "only high quality work is done here."
Click to expand...
My oldest son worked at a Ford dealership about 15 years ago. When I went help him pick up all his tools one Saturday (he was moving on to a different career), there was a tech doing a brake job on an Escape or something similar. I noticed all four brake calipers were hanging by their flexible lines. What kind of "professional" does that?

Scott

PS He worked at a Volvo dealership too. Same kind of stuff happened there.
 
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slo town said:
My oldest son worked at a Ford dealership about 15 years ago. When I went help him pick up all his tools one Saturday (he was moving on to a different career), there was a tech doing a brake job on an Escape or something similar. I noticed all four brake calipers were hanging by their flexible lines. What kind of "professional" does that?

Scott

PS He worked at a Volvo dealership too. Same kind of stuff happened there.
Click to expand...
I also see certain "professionals" (dealership and indy) lift cars using the "wrong" locations and leave terrible dents and scuffs.

And these examples are on cars where the factory lift points are pristine.
 
PWMDMD said:
So we live in a world where it's not enough for someone else to simply make a mistake and you get compensated - there have to be "damages" and you have to show damages. The reason for this is in most cases mistakes aren't malicious and as such the goal is to simply make the person who incurred the damages whole again - it is not to punish someone for making an honest mistake. What damages have you incurred from excessive sealer?
Click to expand...

It’s not that it was malicious. It was about doing your job and doing it correctly. The tech doing the job was either poorly trained, didn’t care or whatever the case may be. Many people just don’t care to do things the correct way. sometimes there are conservative and sometimes not. Depends if they get lucky or not I suppose.
 
1) As far as engine damage, unless there is evidence of excess RTV clogging, significantly restricting or passing through the pickup screen - don't worry about that part.

2) The gouges in the mating surface - probably the techs doing - you'll have a time getting them to do anything about it. I would do as cline suggest and CAREFULLY file the high spots down then go with it.

Clean all that extra stuff up goes without saying.

Even if you could get a new engine, do you really want these people replacing your engine? It'll be a nightmare. Document their mistake with twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is, then fix it correctly and try to avoid letting them touch your truck in the future. It is sad that this is how it is...

It you want the get their attention, dealerrater.com, BBB, Twitter, facebook and so forth if you're into that sort of thing. I have realized it is best to just accept that basically no one is competent and handle things for your self is the least stressful policy.
 
mattd said:
It’s not that it was malicious. It was about doing your job and doing it correctly. The tech doing the job was either poorly trained, didn’t care or whatever the case may be. Many people just don’t care to do things the correct way. sometimes there are conservative and sometimes not. Depends if they get lucky or not I suppose.
Click to expand...
You missed my entire point. The OP was asking if a new engine was reasonable and not simply to have the sealer done correctly. My point is to get a new engine you have to prove there is damage to the engine, caused by the sealer placement, that requires replacement. You don't get a new engine simply because someone made a mistake installing a part that has had NO effect on the engine other than a leaky pan.

Now my point is if it wasn't malicious you don't get more than what the damages prove - in this case, that is a leaky pan.
 
PWMDMD said:
You missed my entire point. The OP was asking if a new engine was reasonable and not simply to have the sealer done correctly. My point is to get a new engine you have to prove there is damage to the engine, caused by the sealer placement, that requires replacement. You don't get a new engine simply because someone made a mistake installing a part that has had NO effect on the engine other than a leaky pan.

Now my point is if it wasn't malicious you don't get more than what the damages prove - in this case, that is a leaky pan.
Click to expand...

I do understand your point in that respect. And I do agree he has no recourse for a new engine. My point was the person doing the repair did a terrible job due to the reasons I stated previously.
 
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