Deal flushed my transmission

There are too many words that have over-lapping meanings. Fluid exchange, flush, extractor... There doesn't seem to be a consensus what they mean.
 
This has been going on since about the early 90s or so with BG. I've worked at a number of dealerships and all of them used these products,
I understood the profit aspect, but felt that the customers were not getting what they believed they were paying for. Branded OEM fluids.
They don't care that BG warranties their fluids, they want factory branded fluids, if you ask customers most of them are under the impression that a factory authorized dealer shop uses factory fluids.
My main sticking point with the practice is the hypocrisy. If you serviced your transmission on your on and put in BG ATF, or any other universal ATF, and then had a warranty claim, there's a good chance that they'd deny your claim due to the use of a non-licensed ATF. If they put it in, the fluid still wouldn't be at fault, but you'd have no problem with a warranty claim.
 
MOC #04203 is for 1 gal of their universal ATF (blue version).

For $219, you received a drain and refill. Hopefully (probably) the additive kit went into the trash.
Every Hyundai dealer that I've visited, along with the Honda dealership I worked at has used BG fluids. Not only do they get a pretty good price, but BG provides a warranty to the dealership on their fluid. Plus you add in the machines and I guess it makes sense. I dislike that they're not super forward about what they're using though, unless you ask. Then again, most people probably don't care or would even think to ask.
Here in CA, MOC seems to outnumber BG by at least 10:1.
 
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For $219, you received a drain and refill.
How much a true drain and refill at a Honda dealer, for example, cost in CA ? In Ohio, Honda dealers charge between $99-129. DW-1 retails for $8-9/bottle so dealer cost is maybe $4-5 with most Hondas taking either 2.5 or 3.5 quarts. Worst case, they've got $18 in "parts". Seems like plenty of margin to include labor, overhead, profit, etc.

If you paid $200+ here, the presumption is you got a full flush/exchange using a machine and universal fluid.
 
How much a true drain and refill at a Honda dealer, for example, cost in CA ? In Ohio, Honda dealers charge between $99-129. DW-1 retails for $8-9/bottle so dealer cost is maybe $4-5 with most Hondas taking either 2.5 or 3.5 quarts. Worst case, they've got $18 in "parts". Seems like plenty of margin to include labor, overhead, profit, etc.

If you paid $200+ here, the presumption is you got a full flush/exchange using a machine and universal fluid.
I put in a 2015 Odyssey:

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Keep in mind that each dept operates as its own profit center. Parts "sells" the goods to Service. They don't sell to each other at cost.
 
Keep in mind that each dept operates as its own profit center. Parts "sells" the goods to Service. They don't sell to each other at cost.
Oh yeah, I understand what you mean, but it's also just accounting magic. It all comes out of the same pot at the end of the day.

A few years ago, when I bought my wife's (used) Fusion, I got the work orders/invoice (same paperwork that a normal customer receives) of what the dealer did after they got it. They did the typical maintenance along with a brake job (just one axle though).

$148 - used car inspection, oil and filter change (parts and labor)
$43 - replace wiper blades
$36 - replace engine air filter
$79.95 - wheel alignment
$560 - replace tires
$179.95 - replace rear brakes, machine rotors
$398 - cut and program add'l key

Each line item does read "Total repair (internal)" too so I suspect it's just done for accounting reasons.
 
Oh yeah, I understand what you mean, but it's also just accounting magic. It all comes out of the same pot at the end of the day.

A few years ago, when I bought my wife's (used) Fusion, I got the work orders/invoice (same paperwork that a normal customer receives) of what the dealer did after they got it. They did the typical maintenance along with a brake job (just one axle though).

$148 - used car inspection, oil and filter change (parts and labor)
$43 - replace wiper blades
$36 - replace engine air filter
$79.95 - wheel alignment
$560 - replace tires
$179.95 - replace rear brakes, machine rotors
$398 - cut and program add'l key

Each line item does read "Total repair (internal)" too so I suspect it's just done for accounting reasons.
It may come out of a single theoretical pot, but for the context of a single deal, those numbers matter.
 
If that was a transmission flush product I would not be happy. If it just meant they "flushed" the transmission as in a service then it likely just means they did a drain and fill. The only fluid I would want in my transmission is OEM or OEM spec fluid, no additives.
 
The invoice tells all. MOC fluid exchange with the MOC 01941 "kit" which includes a cleaner dumped in prior to fluid exchange and a "Lubegard" type product added with the new fluid. Same as what BG offers - marketing. Probably still better than people that never service their trannies.

When I shopped Patriot (Hyundai) tranny service locally, EVERYONE (FCA,Hyundai, Kia) in my local area used BG products, except one Jeep dealer that used Valvolene Maxlife. Even dealers servicing trannies under warranty.

- My professional FCA/Jeep dealer mechanic friend says they have never had any follow up problems with BG.
- If memory serves (correct me), even our expert here (Molakule) states that "most" tranny fluids are not as special as they claim and that the universals do more than o.k. (with exceptions,of course)????
- Doesn't seem too long ago here that diy full tranny fluid exhange via cooler line was all the rage. We had one good heated debate a year or two ago comparing the pros/cons of exchange vs. drop and fill. We seem to be on the drain and fill kick right now.

Point is, we are fair weather friends at BITOG to whatever subject reaches the bandwagon pedestal at any given time. Lots of people are using OEM fluid or universal fluids in full exchange or drain and fill with success. We are not hearing any rash of big problems either way. Follow whatever bias system you wish, and enjoy the success. As long as everyone agrees that I am always correct, all is well (failed to convince wife of this).

I don't think the OP needs to fret over his original question - flushing all the clutch pack debris out of the tranny will ruin it's performance and longevity.

@rob1715 - I am not aware that the mythical pressure flush machine exists. MOC, BG, etc. use a T-tech type of unit that exchanges the old fluid with new fluid utilizing the vehicle's running transmission pump. Addition of a cleaner prior to the exchange "maybe" classifies it as a "flush"? I imagine these cleaners help remove that thin dark layer we see when dropping the pan? The addition of a Lubegard type additive is probably marketing designed to influence sales to those uninformed. Still, probably no harm/no foul. Just a system to create more profit (what companies are in business for).

Let's assume we are talking about maintaining pristine transmissions here, not overheated, never changed trannies at 180K miles with all types of sludge and other issues.
 
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The invoice tells all. MOC fluid exchange with the MOC 01941 "kit" which includes a cleaner dumped in prior to fluid exchange and a "Lubegard" type product added with the new fluid. Same as what BG offers - marketing. Probably still better than people that never service their trannies.
The truth is that many if not MOST car manufacturers specifically say NOT to use any sort of transmission additives, due to possible damage!

If the shop is an authorized dealer for a brand that specifically recommends against using additives, the dealer should be liable for any damage that may be contributed to that unauthorized use of additives, not only that the mfr should revoke the franchise for that dealer.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. It will probably be fine. The reason I took it to the dealer is that they had to have put the proper fluid back in the transmission. If they used the wrong stuff and it damaged my transmission, imo it would be easier to go after them because they are the ones who should know better.

Side note: the transmission seems to still be shifting better than it did, but Istill get a little "bump" into second gear starting out from a dead stop. Crawling in the parking lot gets a slight jerk forward into second if I drive fast enough to kick it into higher gear. Otherwise it shifts fine. Normal, or should I take it in to have checked out?

Thanks
 
Thanks for the responses guys. It will probably be fine. The reason I took it to the dealer is that they had to have put the proper fluid back in the transmission. If they used the wrong stuff and it damaged my transmission, imo it would be easier to go after them because they are the ones who should know better.

Side note: the transmission seems to still be shifting better than it did, but I still get a little "bump" into second gear starting out from a dead stop periodically. Crawling in the parking lot gets a slight jerk forward into second if I drive fast enough to kick it into higher gear. Otherwise it shifts fine. Normal, or should I take it in to have checked out?

Thanks
 
Thanks for the responses guys. It will probably be fine. The reason I took it to the dealer is that they had to have put the proper fluid back in the transmission. If they used the wrong stuff and it damaged my transmission, imo it would be easier to go after them because they are the ones who should know better.

Side note: the transmission seems to still be shifting better than it did, but Istill get a little "bump" into second gear starting out from a dead stop. Crawling in the parking lot gets a slight jerk forward into second if I drive fast enough to kick it into higher gear. Otherwise it shifts fine. Normal, or should I take it in to have checked out?

Thanks
Take it back, politely explain that you still have concern, and then also request that they dump the stuff they put in with the flush they did, and to use the manufacturers specified fluid and NOT to add any additives or cleaners. They should pay, as they didn't use the recommended manufacturer fluids and put additives into the unit as well. You do NOT want those additives in there.

Make sure that you have them note your concern on the work order they write up.

If you could after they redo the work they didn't do correctly, drive the car for a week or two and then come back with a follow up. Thanks.
 
Would’ve been a lot more $ if they used genuine Mazda fluid, unless they came out with flush machines that don’t hold much fluid now.

when I was at a dealer our machines held 12 or 16 quarts.

I bought Mazda genuine fluid for my 17 Mazda6 at $15 per quart if I remember correct. They claimed it sells at $18 but gave me a break.

it is in fact blue, but it’s way more $ that $50some.
 
Would’ve been a lot more $ if they used genuine Mazda fluid, unless they came out with flush machines that don’t hold much fluid now.

when I was at a dealer our machines held 12 or 16 quarts.

I bought Mazda genuine fluid for my 17 Mazda6 at $15 per quart if I remember correct. They claimed it sells at $18 but gave me a break.

it is in fact blue, but it’s way more $ that $50some.
You don't flush the SkyActiv transmissions, just a drain and refill. I only hand out 4 quarts when service sells a change on one.
 
I called the service department and told them that I had a service dine last week and that the transmission is shifting hard. They said to bring it in Monday morning.
 
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