Dang. How much for a power steering flush?

[y_p_w]

I was looking around for stuff on power steering service and found the following "special" from a Subaru dealer in Colorado:

http://www.mikeshawsubaru.com/power-steering-flush.htm

$129.95 for a service with "premium conditioners". Here's the part that really bugs me:

Quote:
It can be risky trying to change your Subaru car or SUV's power steering fluid at home, let our Factory Authorized and trained service technicians take care of the hard work for you! You can rest assured that the Service Staff at Mike Shaw Subaru will have your fluid replaced with Subaru approved power steering fluid.

This is wrong on so many levels. I walked into a Subaru dealer parts dept and asked what they recommended. I came out with a single quart of Subaru PSF-HP for about $9. The guy at the parts counter said that no Subaru PS system would take more than one quart of ATF for a power steering flush and that's what their service dept used. He said the procedure was simply to disconnect the return hose (place in a collection container) and run the engine until all the fluid came out, then start topping off. This copy doesn't mention anything about ATF and doesn't say what the "special conditioners" are. I suspect it's just ATF.

The dealer's online price for a quart of "ATF-HP/PS Fluid" is $5.65 or $6.04 depending on where you look. I imagine this takes 15 minutes tops and a shop manual would probably back me up. Even at $120/hr it shouldn't cost more than $40 to do this. This is just one of those crazy flat rate dealer services that they make out to be a great bargain but is obscenely overpriced considering how much in labor and parts is actually involved.

 

[KenO]

I'm not sure about some subaru's, but STi's DO have a special service procedure to ensure there are no bubbles. Friends had to get theirs flushed often who ran 30-40 autox events a year.

 

[lubedude13]

My shop does BG power steering services for $89

 

[mclasser]

Power steering flushes are really expensive at most places and IDK why. Although more time consuming, turkey baster method FTW

.

 

[gregk24]

Thats about how much it was to get mine flushed at the Honda dealer. Worth it to me.

 

[oldhp]

If you do the turkey baster trick every year, you should never have power steering problems.
Same way with brake fluid.

 

[FutureDoc]

I do the "drain/fill" method on my Subbie. I drain the reservoir (vacuum pump and a modified 1qt mason jar, refill, run it (ie turn the wheel) repeat. Don't know if it is the "right way" but it works for me.

 

[michaelluscher]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I was looking around for stuff on power steering service and found the following "special" from a Subaru dealer in Colorado:

http://www.mikeshawsubaru.com/power-steering-flush.htm

$129.95 for a service with "premium conditioners". Here's the part that really bugs me:

Quote:
It can be risky trying to change your Subaru car or SUV's power steering fluid at home, let our Factory Authorized and trained service technicians take care of the hard work for you! You can rest assured that the Service Staff at Mike Shaw Subaru will have your fluid replaced with Subaru approved power steering fluid.

This is wrong on so many levels. I walked into a Subaru dealer parts dept and asked what they recommended. I came out with a single quart of Subaru PSF-HP for about $9. The guy at the parts counter said that no Subaru PS system would take more than one quart of ATF for a power steering flush and that's what their service dept used. He said the procedure was simply to disconnect the return hose (place in a collection container) and run the engine until all the fluid came out, then start topping off. This copy doesn't mention anything about ATF and doesn't say what the "special conditioners" are. I suspect it's just ATF.

The dealer's online price for a quart of "ATF-HP/PS Fluid" is $5.65 or $6.04 depending on where you look. I imagine this takes 15 minutes tops and a shop manual would probably back me up. Even at $120/hr it shouldn't cost more than $40 to do this. This is just one of those crazy flat rate dealer services that they make out to be a great bargain but is obscenely overpriced considering how much in labor and parts is actually involved.


I'd forward this to Subaru US HQ, It bothers me THAT MUCH!

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Thats about how much it was to get mine flushed at the Honda dealer. Worth it to me.

Cost me less than $10 by doing it myself. $4.40+ tax for each of two bottles of Genuine Honda Power Steering Fluid and less than 50 cents for about a foot of 1/2" flexible vinyl tubing to serve as an extension. You'll need pliers. The job is so simple and fast it kind of offends me how much some dealers charge for this as a flat rate service.

When I took an '89 Integra for servicing at an independent repair shop, they charged for three bottles of Honda Power Steering Fluid and 10 minutes labor. This was mid-90s, but I'm thinking $16 at $60/hr. Back then Honda Power Steering Fluid was maybe $2/bottle. Once I had a '95 Integra factory service manual, I realized how ridiculously easy it was. The only drawback is the possibility that the extension might shoot out and spray fluid, but that's easy enough to avoid if you just have an assistant to securely hold the end of the extension and hold the collection container. It doesn't come out at high pressure, but you don't want the return line to escape.

 

[MaximaGuy]

OK. Nice question this is my take. Two days back did a flush of my ES350 PS with Redline.

I am a consultant and get paid $1xx/hr and it took me 1hr to do the job to "my" satisfaction.

So the total cost was $1xx+$10, was it worth my time no -- absolutely no.

The reason I do it myself is to vent off the stress from work -- you cannot beat up your supervisor right, well turning a bolts and nuts gets the stream out!!

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
OK. Nice question this is my take. Two days back did a flush of my ES350 PS with Redline.

I am a consultant and get paid $1xx/hr and it took me 1hr to do the job to "my" satisfaction.

So the total cost was $1xx+$10, was it worth my time no -- absolutely no.

The reason I do it myself is to vent off the stress from work -- you cannot beat up your supervisor right, well turning a bolts and nuts gets the stream out!!

I make a good living, but in the grand scheme of things I don't necessarily care how much I get paid for my day job when calculating if working on my car is worth my time. I hear that all the time - "How much is your time worth?" It may not be the right question because most people here don't work on cars for a living. My employer isn't paying me to chauffeur my family on the weekends but I do it anyways. My wife doesn't pay me to do the dishes or take out the garbage. And the other thing about taking a vehicle in for servicing is the inconvenience and waiting. Maybe they provide a courtesy vehicle, but then that goes into the price.

I'm salaried. With my salary and bonuses more or less fixed, I'm not going around making more money on the weekend doing freelance work. If I purge and fill the PSF on my wife's Honda, I consider that $10 I spent a huge savings compared to the $60-120 that I might have spent at a dealer/shop and maybe longer time I spend waiting because it's simple enough to be a "while you wait" service. That's maybe $100 that I'm not getting back along with the satisfaction of doing it right.

 

[silverrat]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Thats about how much it was to get mine flushed at the Honda dealer. Worth it to me.



One you see how easy it is to do properly you will realize how badly you got ripped off.

 

[strat81]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
The dealer's online price for a quart of "ATF-HP/PS Fluid" is $5.65 or $6.04 depending on where you look. I imagine this takes 15 minutes tops and a shop manual would probably back me up. Even at $120/hr it shouldn't cost more than $40 to do this. This is just one of those crazy flat rate dealer services that they make out to be a great bargain but is obscenely overpriced considering how much in labor and parts is actually involved.

Capitalist pigs. How dare they!

Really though, that's the price you pay for convenience or inability.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
The dealer's online price for a quart of "ATF-HP/PS Fluid" is $5.65 or $6.04 depending on where you look. I imagine this takes 15 minutes tops and a shop manual would probably back me up. Even at $120/hr it shouldn't cost more than $40 to do this. This is just one of those crazy flat rate dealer services that they make out to be a great bargain but is obscenely overpriced considering how much in labor and parts is actually involved.

Capitalist pigs. How dare they!

Really though, that's the price you pay for convenience or inability.

Mostly what I'm getting at is that flat-rate pricing is often a rip off. Maybe not with loss-leader oil change specials, but definitely with the dealer 30K/60K/90K type services. Often they don't tell you what you're getting and if you ever got out an estimate book and priced out OEM parts and labor rates you'd realize how much a rip off it tends to be.

The shop I always preferred never, ever did anything as a 30K/60K/90K service. Every service invoice specifically noted parts costs and time costs. And if they already had it on the lift it was just the time it took and not simply adding up book labor times as if they were separate services. That was honesty. They've got a stellar reputation and lots of business because they're efficient and don't overcharge. They were capitalist but very honest in their dealings with customers. I was almost shocked that their transmission fluid change was charged as 3 quarts of motor oil and 10 minutes of labor for about $25. The dealer wanted three times as much for it charging it as a flat rate service.

But what really bugs me is that this can get charged for 3-4 times what it should be even with high labor rates and OEM parts. This isn't something that takes a whole lot of expertise. What I'd like to do is see someone go to one of these dealers and ask them to price out the cost of the service with a book estimated time and their posted labor rate (this is required in every general maintenance shop in California, including dealers). The fact is they're taking a $30-$40 service and charging triple that because unknowledgeable customers are coming in who don't realize how little labor there is.

Of course now I do this stuff myself whenever I can.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
If you do the turkey baster trick every year, you should never have power steering problems.
Same way with brake fluid.

This would not work with most brake systems as the fluid does not recirculate.
.

 

[stchman]

For the overwhelming majority of people in this world that under the hood is a mysterious place, they are willing to pay the price.

Me, I just suck out what is in the reservoir every 10K miles or so and fill it back up with the proper fluid.

 

[oldhp]

marting, But why does the brake fluid get dirty again? Even in a plastic reservoir? Just wondering.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
But why does the brake fluid get dirty again? Even in a plastic reservoir? Just wondering.

I believe the linings tend to shed material over time. Most importantly - it's not a 100% closed system. It has to allow a certain amount of air in to compensate for the fluid level going down. And glycol based brake fluid will attract most water vapor over time. Once the water content in the brake fluid increases, the boiling temperature goes down. Past a certain point, the corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid can't counteract the corrosion from the dissolved water.

I don't believe it recirculates and aggressively mixes like motor oils, transmission fluids, or power steering fluids. It will mix over the long term, but I don't believe that's considered an acceptable way to replace the brake fluid.

The other thing is how to you add this even if it does work to siphon and refill? Every instruction I have heard for brake fluid is to install it within a couple of weeks of opening a sealed container. Most recommendations are to not open the reservoir cap unless needed for servicing or to top off the fluid. It's not desirable to keep on opening the cover since it attracts moisture. While moisture in motor oil or PSF will burn off, that's not healthy in brake fluid because that means vapor lock and possible loss of braking.

The oddest thing I've heard of is the use of ATE Super Blue brake fluid. They have a yellow brake fluid with the same specs, but often people will alternate them or use a different brake fluid. So during the bleeding you use a turkey baster to remove fluid, top off with the blue stuff, then bleed the lines without letting the reservoir empty. Then top off again and continue until the stuff coming out of the lines is blue. When you start with the blue fluid, the yellow fluid is used and you bleed the fluid until yellow comes out. But apparently it's been discontinued in the US because it violates federal regulations that the color of brake fluid must be a clear or pale yellow color.

http://hooniverse.com/2013/08/16/braking-news-ate-super-blue-deemed-illegal-for-us-distribution/

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
marting, But why does the brake fluid get dirty again? Even in a plastic reservoir? Just wondering.

Brake fluid is hygroscopic, it will absorb water and slowly loose it's anti-corrosive properties among other things. The fluid the really needs to be changed is that in the calipers.

 

[antiqueshell]

Although I don't like paying an arm and a leg for service from a
$TEALERSHIP what REALLY has my blood boiling is what you pay such a sum to supposed professionals and not only do they charge you king's ransom most of the time these places DO NOT DO THE JOB PROPERLY which can and DOES result damage!