Cut Open Pics - Motorcraft FL-500-S with 5k miles / 1-year

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by metroplex
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
A lot of vehicles have water pumps under the timing cover. Years ago I did the Honda Accord and two different year Camrys in the driveway. No fun.
Filter looks great, especially with lots of WOT.


I understand that. GM's done that with a lot of their Ecotec engines but I've never heard of their internal water pumps sending coolant into the engine and destroying it (no visible signs of coolant leaks outside the engine).

As for the PTUs, I know a few people personally that have had their PTU's leak/grenade at under 50k miles on their Edge/Explorer.


Putting a water pump inside the engine is an engineering fail (coolant leaks into the oil if the pump leaks - neat). Potential disaster, not to mention a nightmare and expensive to repair. I had a Nissan V6 with that design, but didn't keep it long enough to find out how reliable the water pump was.

I have to agree. But, what I don't understand is, why did they do this for the car engine, same engine in the F Series, the WP is located on the outside of the engine.

 

[metroplex]

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by metroplex
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
A lot of vehicles have water pumps under the timing cover. Years ago I did the Honda Accord and two different year Camrys in the driveway. No fun.
Filter looks great, especially with lots of WOT.


I understand that. GM's done that with a lot of their Ecotec engines but I've never heard of their internal water pumps sending coolant into the engine and destroying it (no visible signs of coolant leaks outside the engine).

As for the PTUs, I know a few people personally that have had their PTU's leak/grenade at under 50k miles on their Edge/Explorer.


Putting a water pump inside the engine is an engineering fail (coolant leaks into the oil if the pump leaks - neat). Potential disaster, not to mention a nightmare and expensive to repair. I had a Nissan V6 with that design, but didn't keep it long enough to find out how reliable the water pump was.

I have to agree. But, what I don't understand is, why did they do this for the car engine, same engine in the F Series, the WP is located on the outside of the engine.

The D3/D4 platform (Taurus/Explorer) has the chassis subframe in the engine area right next to where the pump would be, so I'm guessing it was a packaging problem. But they've been using this internal water pump design as far back as the late 2000s. The 2010-2012 Fusion Sport with the N/A 3.5L V6 has the same potential problem.

On the 17-19 Fusion Sport (CD4), the truck 2.7L EcoBoost V6 fits with an external water pump because the subframe is a much different design.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
A lot of vehicles have water pumps under the timing cover. Years ago I did the Honda Accord and two different year Camrys in the driveway. No fun.
Filter looks great, especially with lots of WOT.


Even our old 3.5L Chrysler 300 ? … anyone with good sense grabbed a $75 water pump when doing the timing belt at 100k … but somehow other builders made it harder …

BTW … thought the N/A engine model Explorer had a PTU that was easy to change gear oil in … If you keep changing the oil … or go to Redline et al … they should last.
Looking at a recent SDS Mobil 1 seems to be half ester/PAO and half GrpIII … that's worth a run too.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by metroplex
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by tcp71
The Camry pump sits in the area of the timing belt, away from theand engine internals. On the explorer it sits inside the chain driven timing system, right in the oil bath. If it leaks on the Camry, you may need to replace the timing belt. if it leaks in the explorer, it dilutes the oil and destroys the engine...that can't happen in the Camry.

Pictures in this thread:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../re-ford-edge-2-0-2-7-or-3-5#Post5369907

Very good. The you tube within that thread is also very good. There is a slot in the water pump shown in second video so if it leaks there will be coolant appearing on the outside of the block. The guy says it comes out by the alternator as a warning first. That's something to watch for before it gets into the oil. That wasn't so hard to learn.


There are just as many people that never saw a single drop come out of the weep hole and had a failed engine as a result.

Here's an interesting video showing what the water pump design looks like as they water jetted them in half:

https://youtu.be/yrmH4S2_ZOI

They basically have 2 failure modes. One is via the weep hole if you're lucky. The other is very bad.


What are all the other makes who use chains and have water pumps inside the chain case?
I didn't see anything much in the video except showing what can happen to any water pump bearings.
So you know people were looking at the weep hole before the engine failed? I don't know about that as up till now no one was even talking about the weep hole here, so I doubt the public was watching for it.
When water pump bearings get water in them, it is pretty noticeable. People keep driving anyway.
What I really take away from this finally is it doesn't look so bad as the talk makes it.

 

[metroplex]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
A lot of vehicles have water pumps under the timing cover. Years ago I did the Honda Accord and two different year Camrys in the driveway. No fun.
Filter looks great, especially with lots of WOT.


Even our old 3.5L Chrysler 300 ? … anyone with good sense grabbed a $75 water pump when doing the timing belt at 100k … but somehow other builders made it harder …

BTW … thought the N/A engine model Explorer had a PTU that was easy to change gear oil in … If you keep changing the oil … or go to Redline et al … they should last.
Looking at a recent SDS Mobil 1 seems to be half ester/PAO and half GrpIII … that's worth a run too.


The PTU's with the integrated cooler are easier to change because they have a drain plug. My 2014 SHO did not have one, nor does my 2018 Explorer (both PTUs didn't have coolers). I have to use a pump to extract the fluid from the fill hole, and then pump in the new fluid. It's kind of a pain. My 2017 Fusion Sport has both fill and drain plugs that are fairly easier to access, but its PTU isn't known to overheat/grenade as easily.

 

[mpgo4th]

Mercon LV is almost clear these days???