Cut Open Honda A02 Oil Filter

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: MrQuackers
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Also like the construction of the A01 bypass valve better as it is all metal.


Where is the bypass valve ... no photo of it.


The photo is dark but the bypass is built into the leafspring


Aaaahh yes, I see it now. It's black nylon and looked like a hole in the leaf spring at first glance.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Suffice to say though, a lower efficiency Honda A02 spec was confirmed there. That being after the Amsoil ISO testing published some OEM filter test results including said A02. It is what it is.


Honda A02: 66.5% @ 20 microns.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: webfors
I don't understand how it can have *lower* efficiency than a standard fram. Why would they request a media that has less filtration capability than a standard FRAM. It can't possibly be a cost issue. Those A02 are constructed nicely...lots of pleats, tight, even, excellent bonding. Hmm...


By greatly lowering the efficiency you end up with a filter that will flow like a sieve. There has been considerable speculation here that Honda, Toyota and possibly Hyundia/KIA's are using a wimpy oil pump that needs the help. Honda OEM filters spec at about 65%, Toyota's at 50%, and nobody knows on Hyundia but there has been a TSB regarding bad engine knock with aftermarket filters on those.

 

[Falken]

If I would have to guess why they want such a low filtration on a filter it is so they can run the oil filter two OCIs.

Yes, Honda specs 2 oil changes per filter.

So if they don't filter really fine they won't clog up on the second OCI.

I find this amazing as a lot of people go almost a year by following the Maintenance Minder, and I think some people hit 11,000 miles if they go to 0%.

Would I trust this filter to go 2 years 20,000 miles?

No!

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
You should be able to see a definite impression in the end cap on the dome end where the leaf spring/bypass valve assy seals around the center tube hole. Much harder to see the sealing impression on the ADBV end cap.
There was an impression of the bypass valve, but no impression of the ADBV. I will use one of these A02's...Ill cut open that one after its used and see what it looks like then.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The A02 HAS BEEN CUT OPEN 10'S OF TIMES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS - WHY WASTE IT? ...


It has but this is one of the newer non-Honeywell marked ones.

Interesting that the ADBV looks like the one that came out of an ultra and was marked "Parker".

 

[David1]

The Honda A02 is basically a Fram TG7317 Tough Guard .

I dunno why Frams LOG says to use PH3593A the holes are much smaller then the 7317 even in the extra gaurd... all the different styles of FRAMS the 7317 I think is better and it looks just like the Honda A02

You would think it would cause oil starvation......... or make the oil pump work harder.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: David1
The Honda A02 is basically a Fram TG7317 Tough Guard .

I dunno why Frams LOG says to use PH3593A the holes are much smaller then the 7317 even in the extra gaurd... all the different styles of FRAMS the 7317 I think is better and it looks just like the Honda A02

You would think it would cause oil starvation......... or make the oil pump work harder.


I don't get what you really mean by the oil starvation comment. You mean the PH3593A because of smaller holes? If so, I doubt it makes any noticeable difference to the oil pump.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: David1
The Honda A02 is basically a Fram TG7317 Tough Guard .

I dunno why Frams LOG says to use PH3593A the holes are much smaller then the 7317 even in the extra gaurd... all the different styles of FRAMS the 7317 I think is better and it looks just like the Honda A02

You would think it would cause oil starvation......... or make the oil pump work harder.


I don't get what you really mean by the oil starvation comment. You mean the PH3593A because of smaller holes? If so, I doubt it makes any noticeable difference to the oil pump.


I thought the 7317 was the only model that fit Hondas.

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: David1
The Honda A02 is basically a Fram TG7317 Tough Guard .

I dunno why Frams LOG says to use PH3593A the holes are much smaller then the 7317 even in the extra gaurd... all the different styles of FRAMS the 7317 I think is better and it looks just like the Honda A02

You would think it would cause oil starvation......... or make the oil pump work harder.


I don't get what you really mean by the oil starvation comment. You mean the PH3593A because of smaller holes? If so, I doubt it makes any noticeable difference to the oil pump.


I thought the 7317 was the only model that fit Hondas.


Nope, the 3593A fits, and is recommended. I didn't know the 7317 fit. I'll have to check it out.

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The A02 HAS BEEN CUT OPEN 10'S OF TIMES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS - WHY WASTE IT? ...


It has but this is one of the newer non-Honeywell marked ones.

Interesting that the ADBV looks like the one that came out of an ultra and was marked "Parker".


What I'd be interested in knowing is how well the A02 holds up after 2 OCIs totalling 10-15k miles, assuming there are DIYers who follow exactly what's stated in the manual (ie: filter every other oil change)

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
Quote:
The A02 HAS BEEN CUT OPEN 10'S OF TIMES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS - WHY WASTE IT? ...

It has but this is one of the newer non-Honeywell marked ones.....

Honeywell ownership, Rank ownership, both made by Fram then and now. Just a new parent company and I see it as doubtful the A02 specs and construction have changed in a significant way in that time frame. With the exception of it being unused, the interior and element looks the same to me as A02 I cut open in 2010, in this thread. The one difference I do observe is the baseplate design. I prefer the previous design, but that's another discussion that has been covered here in the past.
Quote:
Nope, the 3593A fits, and is recommended. I didn't know the 7317 fit. I'll have to check it out.

Depending on model, pre 2001-2003 Hondas used the larger diameter 3593A/14459(Puro) filter. For the Civic the smaller 7317/14610 use came into effect in 01, looks like for Accord in 03. But, they both have the same size gasket and are interchangable on some models like 7th gen Civic specing the 7317. The 3593A/14459 will not fit 8th generation Accords. That said, at least in the Purolator the 14610 has more media than the 14459.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The A02 HAS BEEN CUT OPEN 10'S OF TIMES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS - WHY WASTE IT? ...


It has but this is one of the newer non-Honeywell marked ones.

Interesting that the ADBV looks like the one that came out of an ultra and was marked "Parker".


What I'd be interested in knowing is how well the A02 holds up after 2 OCIs totalling 10-15k miles, assuming there are DIYers who follow exactly what's stated in the manual (ie: filter every other oil change)


It will be perfectly fine for 10,000 or 15,000 and probably 20,000 miles as long as the engine isn't a mess internally. It is my understanding that some of the newer Hondas with MM run around 10,000 per oil change so Honda apparently has confidence in it to run around 20,000.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
Quote:
The A02 HAS BEEN CUT OPEN 10'S OF TIMES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS - WHY WASTE IT? ...

It has but this is one of the newer non-Honeywell marked ones.....

Honeywell ownership, Rank ownership, both made by Fram then and now. Just a new parent company and I see it as doubtful the A02 specs and construction have changed in a significant way in that time frame. With the exception of it being unused, the interior and element looks the same to me as A02 I cut open in 2010, in this thread. The one difference I do observe is the baseplate design. I prefer the previous design, but that's another discussion that has been covered here in the past.


I understand that, but the Honewell were made in Canada and that plant is now closed as I understand it so production has moved.

There are some different components, although functionally and specification wise it is identical I am sure. (As I already stated on one of the OP's other threads)

Reference:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...411#Post2784411

and

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...672#Post2861672

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
I don't understand how it can have *lower* efficiency than a standard fram. Why would they request a media that has less filtration capability than a standard FRAM....

How is easy, using less efficient media. Why, I heard a possible explanation when I visited the Fram Test Labs last fall, but it too remains in the realm of conjecture and speculation so I won't repeat it. Suffice to say though, a lower efficiency Honda A02 spec was confirmed there. That being after the Amsoil ISO testing published some OEM filter test results including said A02. It is what it is.

In the latest API SN/GF5 there is a spec for new oil formulation to prevent gumming and gelling when the sump is diluted with ethanol enhanced fuels. I've had unexplained loss of oil pressure more than once on relatively NEW filters running E10 (actually: E- Mystery % gas) when I got what I suspected as a bad tank of fuel; all leading to injector leak/spray issues and fuel dilution. If you get phase separated gas and have a fuel rail leak-down into the sump of high % ethanol gas, I can see a disater in waiting.
All of this is my extrapolated conjecture - though when I installed a new filter the subjective oil pressure issue** went away - so SOMETHING was clogging my filter with less than 2K miles on the clock.
**(excessively noisey valvetrain and bearing knock under load at low RPM on a MT trans.)

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
.....There are some different components.....

Out of curiousity, other than the new cheapened tapping plate design, could point out what other components are different than the one I posted in the link dating to 2010.

I was unaware that all the A02 made (ie. those sold in the US) before the Rank acquisition were made in Canada. Thought that similar to the orange can, some were made in the US but with the Canada plant now closed all production had been moved to US. But, having rarely used them I never looked that closely.

In any case, for me the media and the A02 ISO tested efficiency is still the most important point of it's construction.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
.....There are some different components.....

Out of curiousity, other than the new cheapened tapping plate design, could point out what other components are different than the one I posted in the link dating to 2010...


As I already said the ADBV. (note 3 reinforcing ribs)

The tapping plate appears to have larger and more oval holes than the one I posted, I can't really see yours in the linked thread.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
All of this is my extrapolated conjecture - though when I installed a new filter the subjective oil pressure issue** went away - so SOMETHING was clogging my filter with less than 2K miles on the clock.
**(excessively noisey valvetrain and bearing knock under load at low RPM on a MT trans.)


Did you cut that filter open? Would have been the only way to know for sure.

 

[jfking106]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
Quote:
The A02 HAS BEEN CUT OPEN 10'S OF TIMES IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS - WHY WASTE IT? ...

It has but this is one of the newer non-Honeywell marked ones.....

Honeywell ownership, Rank ownership, both made by Fram then and now. Just a new parent company and I see it as doubtful the A02 specs and construction have changed in a significant way in that time frame. With the exception of it being unused, the interior and element looks the same to me as A02 I cut open in 2010, in this thread. The one difference I do observe is the baseplate design. I prefer the previous design, but that's another discussion that has been covered here in the past.
Quote:
Nope, the 3593A fits, and is recommended. I didn't know the 7317 fit. I'll have to check it out.

Depending on model, pre 2001-2003 Hondas used the larger diameter 3593A/14459(Puro) filter. For the Civic the smaller 7317/14610 use came into effect in 01, looks like for Accord in 03. But, they both have the same size gasket and are interchangable on some models like 7th gen Civic specing the 7317. The 3593A/14459 will not fit 8th generation Accords. That said, at least in the Purolator the 14610 has more media than the 14459.


Ah, that makes sense. My old beater Civic is a 92, hence the 3593A/14459.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: jfking106
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
Nope, the 3593A fits, and is recommended. I didn't know the 7317 fit. I'll have to check it out.

Depending on model, pre 2001-2003 Hondas used the larger diameter 3593A/14459(Puro) filter. For the Civic the smaller 7317/14610 use came into effect in 01, looks like for Accord in 03. But, they both have the same size gasket and are interchangable on some models like 7th gen Civic specing the 7317. The 3593A/14459 will not fit 8th generation Accords. That said, at least in the Purolator the 14610 has more media than the 14459.


Ah, that makes sense. My old beater Civic is a 92, hence the 3593A/14459.

Correctamundo. Related story, back in 01 when we purchased a Civic EX, the dealer was still stocking and using the 3593A/14459 size only for quite some time. I've used several in that size.

01 was also the first year for the 5w20 spec oil. Motorcraft SynBlend 5w20 5qt. red jug at Wally was the best deal going. In fact for a long time it was the only 5w20 in a jug.

 

[GarrettRay]

Originally Posted By: sir1900

What I'd be interested in knowing is how well the A02 holds up after 2 OCIs totalling 10-15k miles, assuming there are DIYers who follow exactly what's stated in the manual (ie: filter every other oil change)


I have a 2014 Odyssey and just checked my manual. It doesn't say to change the filter every other oil change. It implies to change it every fill. Has Honda changed their stance on this? If so, I wonder why?