Currently using Mobil 15w50 Performance.. overkill ?
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You're looking for Fe and whatever other elements your cam is made of. If everything else is in line (Pb, etc.) and one element sticks out like the Washington Monument ..then you know you've gone too far.
Redline is a great oil. At times it can wreak havoc on metals due to the aggressive additive package. Sometimes it takes two or three OCIs to settle down (or so it seems). I don't know how it will react with your engine
XD-3 is a POA synth made by Imperial Esso. It's a dual rated diesel oil ..and a screaming deal from a end user price: cost of production basis compared to other full synth oils available in Canada. We cannot get it here
Everyone appears to regard K&N oil filters (Champ Labs, IIRC) as a quality filter. Due to you being so close to relief a good bit, its added flow capability may actually be put to use.
Redline is a great oil. At times it can wreak havoc on metals due to the aggressive additive package. Sometimes it takes two or three OCIs to settle down (or so it seems). I don't know how it will react with your engine
XD-3 is a POA synth made by Imperial Esso. It's a dual rated diesel oil ..and a screaming deal from a end user price: cost of production basis compared to other full synth oils available in Canada. We cannot get it here
Everyone appears to regard K&N oil filters (Champ Labs, IIRC) as a quality filter. Due to you being so close to relief a good bit, its added flow capability may actually be put to use.
Do you have roller rockers? If so, valvetrain wear shouldn't be an issue with the lower viscosity oils. And with that high volume oil pump, I'd drop down to a Xw30 at your next OCI. Esso XD-3 0w30, or GC 0w30 might be perfect for this application. If you use UOAs to fine tune, remember to trend each oil over at least 2 OCIs. If I were to use Amsoil, I'd try the Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD)
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'bout time you showed up. I've been winging it until you chimed in ....
I'm curious about this Esso Xd-3. Sorry for being a nub but what is POA synth ? Even if there is a good synthetic that is overkill in price i don't mind it. I know its easy to throw money at good components just wish it was as easy when it came to oil.
427Z06, I have T&D Shaft rockers fully optioned out for lightweight and less friction (something with the needle bearings i forget - bought them 4 years back)
I was just out walking my dog and was thinking... My motor isn't VERY VERY different than a typical hopped up LT4 in most ways. Wouldn't the High volume oil pump just be enough to cover the extra hp and rpms ? Maybe sticking with a 10w30 is the way to go ?
427Z06, I have T&D Shaft rockers fully optioned out for lightweight and less friction (something with the needle bearings i forget - bought them 4 years back)
I was just out walking my dog and was thinking... My motor isn't VERY VERY different than a typical hopped up LT4 in most ways. Wouldn't the High volume oil pump just be enough to cover the extra hp and rpms ? Maybe sticking with a 10w30 is the way to go ?
It's a real bargain you Canadians have the option of buying. Think of it as a thinner version of the M1 15w50 you're using, only at a much better price.
Then don't worry about thick oil to protect the valvetrain.
Yep, that's why I'd try a stout Xw30 given the information you provided.
From the discussion about the highflow oil pump and having the relief trip, I have to wonder. If the bearing clearences are close to stock (?), and the factory pressure relief remains unchanged (?), other than wasting HP by creating more backpressure in the oiling network, what's the problem?
Yes he probably could experiment with a 20wt if he so choosed, though I personally would be sweating the "shear" variable because I know too little about all things tribological and the spec's on this engine's design. Another good balance point concerning oil viscosity was mentioned that with non-roller rockers, wear works inversely (comparatively thinking fuel efficiency).
If the engine is set-up with near stock bearing clearences (?), why might one opt for the use of a high(er) flow pump? I would think that managing thermally related thinning would be better served by adding a cooler - "treat the problem not the symptoms."
Curious.
Yes he probably could experiment with a 20wt if he so choosed, though I personally would be sweating the "shear" variable because I know too little about all things tribological and the spec's on this engine's design. Another good balance point concerning oil viscosity was mentioned that with non-roller rockers, wear works inversely (comparatively thinking fuel efficiency).
If the engine is set-up with near stock bearing clearences (?), why might one opt for the use of a high(er) flow pump? I would think that managing thermally related thinning would be better served by adding a cooler - "treat the problem not the symptoms."
Curious.
This oil is too thick. At startup, you do not want the oil to be higher than 60% or so on the oil pressure indicator. In fact, you want a thinner oil at startup (that what you have) so that the oil flows to the critical parts faster. After it is fully warmed up, you want the oil pressure to be 25%-ish of the full pressure of hot oil when running at 3K or higher RPMs.
You should not be concerned if the idle oil pressure is as low as 15% of the fully warmed up oil pressure seen above 3K RPMs. All a big American V8 engine needs at idle is about 10 PSI (at factory clearances) when the oil is hot (greater than 230dF).
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=016087#000000
Also ask in this group if you want to try GC:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=51
From what little I have come by, with clearances of .0025, couldn't a 30-40wt be all that's required/a good starting point (a thick 30 I'm thinking)? Of course you're already showing ample pressure especially if following the american motor's rough rule of 10 psi/1,000rpm - though you are running a 50wt.
Like others have said, the ideal for YOUR use and engine would likely come from a series of UOA's (used oil analysis). The same goes for the rest of us oilers, though for some reason I find myself thumbing through the UOA section instead of pulling my own samples - looking for immediate gratification? Wouldn't know really whether the rec. is "best" or not without testing anyway. It's a recurring cycle of questioning, doubt, investigation, identification, try, question, doubt....
Your oil is too cool? - sorry if you've noted, but do you have an oil cooler installed? Does it have a thermostat? What temp.? What temp. stat do you have on the engine's coolant system? How long a run do you usually go for while still noting "cool" oil temps - do you actually have an oil temp guage to give use some figures or does one think the oil's cool by comparing the oil pressures of before the build to what they are now (the new high volume pump is trying to flow more oil than the original, and since clearances haven't changed all that much (assumption), oil pressure would have to rise to the point where pumped input equals bleed-out through clearances and possibly the relief valve). Perhaps a stat's stuck open?
Like others have said, the ideal for YOUR use and engine would likely come from a series of UOA's (used oil analysis). The same goes for the rest of us oilers, though for some reason I find myself thumbing through the UOA section instead of pulling my own samples - looking for immediate gratification? Wouldn't know really whether the rec. is "best" or not without testing anyway. It's a recurring cycle of questioning, doubt, investigation, identification, try, question, doubt....
Your oil is too cool? - sorry if you've noted, but do you have an oil cooler installed? Does it have a thermostat? What temp.? What temp. stat do you have on the engine's coolant system? How long a run do you usually go for while still noting "cool" oil temps - do you actually have an oil temp guage to give use some figures or does one think the oil's cool by comparing the oil pressures of before the build to what they are now (the new high volume pump is trying to flow more oil than the original, and since clearances haven't changed all that much (assumption), oil pressure would have to rise to the point where pumped input equals bleed-out through clearances and possibly the relief valve). Perhaps a stat's stuck open?
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Nothing normally. But since he has a high volume pump ..bought with the intent of having truly higher volume ..then dipping in visc is the only way to achieve that. He's got totally variable flow based on how thick or thin his oil is ..and he's using a heavy oil. This engine isn't operated in a normal fashion either.
An oil cooler might have been an option ..but according to his indications ..he doesn't have temp issues in either coolant or oil (if I read correctly).
The stat is a 160. Teh car has a HD mezziere electric waterpump and the temps around town are always 195-200 sitting still. moving at low speeds its around 185-195. On the highway its never lower than 178-182 ish. SO the coolant temps from what I understand are good and not too cold. They are easily adjustable via gen7 (the fans) .
There is no oil cooler in the car. The temp guage when the car was bolt ons would always increase as would coolant and it would stay near the middle and a bit over it(50-60%) We did change sensors because we replaced every single sensor in the engine compartment with the rebuild but I'm fairly sure its giving a somewhat accurate reading. When started it reads cold and as it's driven it does slowly increase. Only under extended periods of hard driving and high rpms does the temp get hotter. I'd say that is normal but it doesn't nearly get in the 'hot' zone of the guage. And by extended driving I mean trying to hit 200 mph 2x in a row =) (oh and I did both times.. 209 and 207
I think you are correct in questioning the accurace of the sensor or the guages, they aren't known to be spot on. it was just my theory that the oil is way too thick and the extra capacity of the pan plus the HV pump is cooling things down too much.
it's been raining for a whole week but tommorow I'll go grab some xd3 0w30 and I'll be sure to post up results when I get some seat time.
There is no oil cooler in the car. The temp guage when the car was bolt ons would always increase as would coolant and it would stay near the middle and a bit over it(50-60%) We did change sensors because we replaced every single sensor in the engine compartment with the rebuild but I'm fairly sure its giving a somewhat accurate reading. When started it reads cold and as it's driven it does slowly increase. Only under extended periods of hard driving and high rpms does the temp get hotter. I'd say that is normal but it doesn't nearly get in the 'hot' zone of the guage. And by extended driving I mean trying to hit 200 mph 2x in a row =) (oh and I did both times.. 209 and 207
I think you are correct in questioning the accurace of the sensor or the guages, they aren't known to be spot on. it was just my theory that the oil is way too thick and the extra capacity of the pan plus the HV pump is cooling things down too much.
it's been raining for a whole week but tommorow I'll go grab some xd3 0w30 and I'll be sure to post up results when I get some seat time.
From what's been noted, I would be inclined to work from a 30wt oil and adjust from there. Aside from UOA's to judge oil weight, one might also utilize an oil temp guage, bouncing of the relations to the oil pressure meter. And yes, the guages are only so accurate, but I'd hope "reasonable". Trending might be safer with the data they present.
Be safe.
Quote from Gary Allan:
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"But since he has a high volume pump ..bought with the intent of having truly higher volume..."
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I'd guess he's just using too darn thick of an oil in a machine of it's capability to maintain operating temps., or so the info's leading me to conclude.
For the sake of interest...if a lower weight oil was used than that which is even considered common practice with a stock arrangement (say a 20wt in this case with an HTHS of 2.6), does one think "ample protection" would come of it's use as long as the oil pressures remained "normal"? I know "Doc" has presented us with UOA data in his many exotic rides, but I'm still having a hard time getting around some of this stuff. I mean, it seems like such little differences in values between the weights at operating temps, that the lubrication "sweet spot" must be narrow. From the reports however, this may prove otherwise. Perhaps the ideals of any engine can't fully be layedout by design and arrangement - a compromise is made amoung many, and thus a balance in individual component wear is struck. In some cases some speculate heavier oil wt. and additive design to serve as bandaids for system's whose arrangements and individual operating characteristic impacts are less than ideal.
Thanks!
Interesting.
Be safe.
Quote from Gary Allan:
--------------
"But since he has a high volume pump ..bought with the intent of having truly higher volume..."
--------------
I'd guess he's just using too darn thick of an oil in a machine of it's capability to maintain operating temps., or so the info's leading me to conclude.
For the sake of interest...if a lower weight oil was used than that which is even considered common practice with a stock arrangement (say a 20wt in this case with an HTHS of 2.6), does one think "ample protection" would come of it's use as long as the oil pressures remained "normal"? I know "Doc" has presented us with UOA data in his many exotic rides, but I'm still having a hard time getting around some of this stuff. I mean, it seems like such little differences in values between the weights at operating temps, that the lubrication "sweet spot" must be narrow. From the reports however, this may prove otherwise. Perhaps the ideals of any engine can't fully be layedout by design and arrangement - a compromise is made amoung many, and thus a balance in individual component wear is struck. In some cases some speculate heavier oil wt. and additive design to serve as bandaids for system's whose arrangements and individual operating characteristic impacts are less than ideal.
Thanks!
Interesting.
I'd consider Mobil1 0W-40 if it's available in Canada.
Wanted to thank everyone for responding and adding their thoughts. After doing some research on the exxo oil it's not really readily available anywhere near me. having to find a retailer and drive way out of my way isn't something I planned on doing. Even better so the redline rep who responded to all my emails was kind enough to email me tons of info and answered all of my questions. After calling them and speaking to someone over the phone I decided to give it a try since they were available at the parts source 5 mins from me.
at $15 a bottle it wasn't cheap, but holding the bottle up beside a Mobil 5w-50 in my other hand, the difference was astounding. the redline oil was like water, the mobil was like ketchup, way way thicker. I switched the oil and filter up and went for a boot. WOW, I honestly couldn't have imagined the difference it would make. Sure it has been cool these last few nights but the motor feels so much more silkier and freer-revving than before. My oil pressure pumps up a bit faster when I first crank it over and isn't nearly pegging my guage like the Mobil did. Also my oil temps are a little warmer than the Mobil, not by much but they are.
The motor really seems to spin much better especially at higher rpms. Forgot to mention its the Redline 5w30 I put in. Someone told me I was probably freeing up 10-15 horses just cuz of the oil at higher rpms. Not sure if its that much of a difference but it sure does feel like it through my gas pedal.
Thanks again !!
at $15 a bottle it wasn't cheap, but holding the bottle up beside a Mobil 5w-50 in my other hand, the difference was astounding. the redline oil was like water, the mobil was like ketchup, way way thicker. I switched the oil and filter up and went for a boot. WOW, I honestly couldn't have imagined the difference it would make. Sure it has been cool these last few nights but the motor feels so much more silkier and freer-revving than before. My oil pressure pumps up a bit faster when I first crank it over and isn't nearly pegging my guage like the Mobil did. Also my oil temps are a little warmer than the Mobil, not by much but they are.
The motor really seems to spin much better especially at higher rpms. Forgot to mention its the Redline 5w30 I put in. Someone told me I was probably freeing up 10-15 horses just cuz of the oil at higher rpms. Not sure if its that much of a difference but it sure does feel like it through my gas pedal.
Thanks again !!
Sounds like Redline 5W-30, according to his post.
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