Current Job Market

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OK, so what I hear you saying is that there are entire sectors of the economy in which the working conditions are so poor and the business owners are offering so little for pay that that the businesses can't keep their doors open due to lack of workers.

This sounds like capitalism working perfectly. The labor market has sent the message that these companies don't have a sustainable business model.

And yet somehow this is the workers fault?!?

Maybe the business owners should:
Improve working conditions.
Pay more.
Provide good health insurance.
Set dependable schedules.

It's like my first post all over again.
In addition: maybe it is no longer a viable business and the owner should just admit defeat, and sell the business to a competitor / close it and work for someone else instead. I'm not being sarcastic, there are many businesses no longer being valuable to the customers and customers no longer willing to pay a premium for, and we likely have to close them like many other jobs in history (i.e. travel agents). Sad, but that's the reality of business.
 
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"It's always the worker's fault!"
"It's always the government's fault!"
"It's NEVER my fault!"
"If those darn workers would just..."

Let me see if I can help... By definition, management is responsible for decsions leading to on going success of the company.
Im my life, if something is not working, perhaps I should do something different? Ya think?
 
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I know someone who manages a company that pays six figures with benefits. Same story. He has openings but no takers. Some will try and leave in a short period.

People do not want to work.
It is all relative. I once had a recruiter telling me to get a 120k job when I was already making more than that. I ask him why should I and he say it is a growth opportunity.

Maybe your "someone who manages a company" friend should check what their competitors are doing and how can they retain and hire people yet his "six figures with benefit" offering is not getting anyone to sign up.

As in, if you want to hire someone who typically can make 200k with only 150k, you will also not get any taker when you "offer six figures with benefit". Hint: start with paying 15-20% more than the guy is already currently making, maybe up to 30-50%? I'm sure your competitors are already doing that.
 
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"It's always the worker's fault!"
"It's always the government's fault!"
"It's NEVER my fault!"
"If those darn workers would just..."

Let me see if I can help... By definition, management is responsible for decsions leading to on going success of the company.
Im my life, if something is not working, perhaps I should do something different? Ya think?

When an employer feels the general public is "entitled" and nobody wants to work for him or her, it is typically the employer who is entitled.
 
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When an employer feels the general public is "entitled" and nobody wants to work for him or her, it is typically the employer who is entitled.
Gee, I thought Google paid all that money because they think us programmers are cute?
Hint: Go to a programmer's convention... Nobody calls us cute.
 
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We've also had 817k deaths, so less people available to work too.
And 85% of those deaths were 65 and older, so likely retired.

The other 15% is what, 100k people.


All sad losses for their family and friends. But out of a pool of 100 million workers, 0.1% of the workforce at most. So not really a big factor in the labor force.

There are 11 million jobs openings unfilled right now IIRC. 100k people would be about 1% of what's open. Where are the other 99% of the workers to fill those jobs? They didn't die in the pandemic. They choose to not be in the market for whatever reasons make sense to them right now.
 
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Gee, I thought Google paid all that money because they think us programmers are cute?
Hint: Go to a programmer's convention... Nobody calls us cute.
That's why I found programming boring, I'm too cute, LOL.

I liked teaching Java, but day to day programming wasn't my bag.

But I'm grateful for those to whom it is.


Maybe it's inner beauty and cuteness :)
 
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It is all relative. I once had a recruiter telling me to get a 120k job when I was already making more than that. I ask him why should I and he say it is a growth opportunity.

Maybe your "someone who manages a company" friend should check what their competitors are doing and how can they retain and hire people yet his "six figures with benefit" offering is not getting anyone to sign up.

As in, if you want to hire someone who typically can make 200k with only 150k, you will also not get any taker when you "offer six figures with benefit". Hint: start with paying 15-20% more than the guy is already currently making, maybe up to 30-50%? I'm sure your competitors are already doing that.


I believe most employers are offering above the scale right now. It is a question of balance. Should a grocery store cashier make $100k?

Perhaps living in Silicon Valley gives you a different perspective than someone living in Boise Idaho or any other place? SV is a bubble.
 
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I believe most employers are offering above the scale right now. It is a question of balance. Should a grocery store cashier make $100k?

Perhaps living in Silicon Valley gives you a different perspective than someone living in Boise Idaho or any other place? SV is a bubble.
Balance...
We live in a limited market economy. If demand exceeds available supply, prices rise.
Mickey D workers work FAR HARDER than I did a Solutions Architect.
I did plenty of labor before getting a cush desk job. Guess which one makes bank?

People generally don't complain when their assets rise in value. They complain when they need to purchase that same asset.
 
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Lol. OP your attitude is not gonna work.


We’ve hired several over-represented people this year. They come in and realize they are about to embarrass themselves and leave. And we have been offering $10k+ more than they were getting paid and $5k sign on bonuses (gotta make it a year; you get it after 6 weeks).

One guy didn’t even make it 6 weeks. Another has already been telling others he’s looking after 5 weeks.

We aren’t hiring warm bodies. We are being even more careful. And yes, we tell everyone we are looking for people and can’t find help, because we can’t.
 
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Ignatius

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Lol. OP your attitude is not gonna work.


We’ve hired several over-represented people this year. They come in and realize they are about to embarrass themselves and leave. And we have been offering $10k+ more than they were getting paid and $5k sign on bonuses (gotta make it a year; you get it after 6 weeks).

One guy didn’t even make it 6 weeks. Another has already been telling others he’s looking after 5 weeks.

We aren’t hiring warm bodies. We are being even more careful. And yes, we tell everyone we are looking for people and can’t find help, because we can’t.

Good for you, your circumstances sound like an exception to what has become the norm.
 

4WD

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Balance...
We live in a limited market economy. If demand exceeds available supply, prices rise.
Mickey D workers work FAR HARDER than I did a Solutions Architect.
I did plenty of labor before getting a cush desk job. Guess which one makes bank?

People generally don't complain when their assets rise in value. They complain when they need to purchase that same asset.
And you have to project your own future … I was always a hard worker - but decided not to waste that somewhere that did not have many opportunities to advance skill sets and related pay.
 

CKN

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$10.50 to work at Burger King? Pass. I don’t blame them for holding a sign on the street too. Far less work and far more money.

People are sick and tired of being treated like crap and being paid crap with crap benefits. I don’t blame people one bit for leaving.

In Utah you can make $15.00/hour if you can fog a mirror.
 
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It is all relative right? If nobody wants to go to a particular place to work, then something is wrong, either the pay, the career path, the boss (most likely when they are the only place that cannot hire enough people but competitors are doing ok), etc.
I would agree that pretty much everything is all relative, yes, but when you're just throwing money at people and you're still finding it difficult to fill a position, or ~3000 at a rapidly expanding company and they tell you that all you have to do is show up and you will be trained on what to do.... I would be on the side of that people do not want to work then that something is wrong.

Unless what you are saying is that what is wrong is that people do not want to work. If you're talkin about $12 an hour at McDonald's then yeah I can totally understand why somebody would not want to work that but when you get into higher dollar amounts and many many bonuses and incentives referrals and things like that then you're going more towards the direction of that people do not want to work no matter what
 

AutoMechanic

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My employer can’t find anyone for a lot of positions either. Porters, techs, service advisors, etc. We are a free choice company when it comes to the shot which is good. They would of not had many of us still working there if that was not the case. We pay pretty good and in the winter months they switch all of the flat rate techs to hourly since work slows down tremendously. They are a family company with great benefits. They give you turkeys at thanksgiving and ham for Christmas and also give you Christmas bonus and gift baskets. Couldn’t ask to work for a better company because I feel my company is the best. My only complaint is not being off Black Friday so I know next year to take a paid day off lol. That’s another thing paid holidays and paid time off from day one. The time off comes with working so many hours but you could work there a few days if you worked long enough and get it. And we get parts, tools from their warehouse, tires, etc for net price which saves a ton of money. We normally get a 10% discount on cars but they took that away because of the stuff going on right now with cars. And they provide gloves too which is a huge plus for me cause they are expensive. Most shops I’ve worked at didn’t provide gloves.
 
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Need more immigrants. They’ve been key to the USA’s growth and prominence since day one - and nothing has changed since then. Always need a fresh supply of labor.
 
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I believe most employers are offering above the scale right now. It is a question of balance. Should a grocery store cashier make $100k?

Perhaps living in Silicon Valley gives you a different perspective than someone living in Boise Idaho or any other place? SV is a bubble.
It may be, but if you are in Boise Idaho and cannot find people to work for you with the wage you post, it is a reality whether you like it or not.

The reality is people are not working for the wage posted, for various reason: like some decided to be a housewife or some decided to retire, because they have enough and it is not worth the consequence or stress for the money.

I got an idea... Lets make everybody a CEO and have no workers...We all will make 200k or more a year. That will please everyone right....:ROFLMAO:

That's actually what happen when people decided to start their own businesses. Of course not everyone makes money in the end. However the question you should ask is why your competitors are losing fewer of their employees to you but you are losing more of your employees to them? When will you get fired by the board and they hire someone from your competitor to replace YOU?
 
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I would agree that pretty much everything is all relative, yes, but when you're just throwing money at people and you're still finding it difficult to fill a position, or ~3000 at a rapidly expanding company and they tell you that all you have to do is show up and you will be trained on what to do.... I would be on the side of that people do not want to work then that something is wrong.

Unless what you are saying is that what is wrong is that people do not want to work. If you're talkin about $12 an hour at McDonald's then yeah I can totally understand why somebody would not want to work that but when you get into higher dollar amounts and many many bonuses and incentives referrals and things like that then you're going more towards the direction of that people do not want to work no matter what
I can only speak for what I can see, in the 120-300k pay scale side of things:

1) 2 of my senior engineers retire, 1 got retained as part timer pay by the days, I don't know how much he got paid but it is probably a compromise for his stress level vs his past pay, maybe a good compromise and he doesn't have to work unpaid overtime anymore yet still qualifies for medical benefits. The other one was stressed out that he was "promoted" to management after someone else quit to do the boss a favor, but then when the staff keeps leaving he ended up having to work extra to cover it, and boss tolerate lower level people to work less because "they are not paid enough for the workload" and threatened to quit. Since he was well off, kids grew up, he just decided to quit and not retained as expert, big loss to our team.

2) 2 guys went to a prestigious company doing completely different things, throwing our domain knowledge out the window because it is no longer in a field that makes a lot of profit. They are now paid 50% more, will never come back ever again.

3) My former boss went to a social networking company and no longer manage people, just projects and programs, and get paid probably about 150k more, closer to home as well.

4) About 10 lower to upper middle management got fired due to performance and cost issue a few months ago, then last month an upper management got fired, and 2 years ago the CEO and later his team of VPs / Presidents got fired due to running our company as a dividend no grow borrow money to do stock buyback, yet no career growth company.

5) 1 new grad quit and instead of making 100k (just a barely living wage here) and went to a company that pays him about double after stocks and bonus. He asked me before he left how long would it take to get to 300k, I told him I'm not even there yet, so don't come back and congratulation, hook me up when you settle down.

So I am not sure if we are a "we still find it difficult to fill a position when just throwing money at people" company. We certainly were market pay but other companies from other markets are doing better and paying way more to move people out of our industry, and the upper management pride themselves in underpaying us for at least 1-2 decades. It is now coming back to bite them.
 
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