Cub with kohler command stalling

[HemiHawk]

Hi all, back again with ANOTHER piece of stalling yard equipment.

Stats
Cub Cadet 2186, with kohler command.
513 hours on tractor

Changed in the past 13 hours
Spark plugs, oil, filter, air filter, fuel filter.

Twice now it has stalled on me after running for maybe 30 minutes. I'm wondering if it has to with mowing on a slight grade, where on the steeper grades I go up and down.

I checked air first, then moved to fuel. I pulled the out going fuel line off the pump, and cranked the motor, but no fuel came out, I'm assuming it should?

Last time it happened it seemed to restart after about 10 minutes. This time no luck. What finally got it going was filling carb with carb cleaner, then firing it. That should tell me something, but I don't know what...

Thanks for any insight folks.

 

[R80RS]

Kohler ignition modules are known to fail after years of use. Engine stalls after it gets hot, like yours after about 30 minutes running. If you let it cool down it will restart and run, until it gets hot again. Good news is the modules are cheap and very easy to replace. They look like this.

 

[Bzab32]

Did you double check to make sure the new fuel filter wasnt installed backwards?

 

[jeepman3071]

+1 on the ignition modules, they are a common failure.

I actually had a Kohler Command last week on a Deere LT160 that I could've sworn was the ignition module, but seemed fuel related. It would run great then stall, but carburetor cleaner would start it.

Turned out to be the solenoid on the carburetor bowl. The little rubber plunger that pops up to block off fuel when you turn off the tractor had come off, and every once in a while would get stuck in the hole for the carb jet.

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
Kohler ignition modules are known to fail after years of use. Engine stalls after it gets hot, like yours after about 30 minutes running. If you let it cool down it will restart and run, until it gets hot again. Good news is the modules are cheap and very easy to replace. They look like this.


Just found the one I needed by part# and ordered it. $27 with free shipping, worth trying.

I did check that the fuel filter is not backwards.

What part would that solenoid be? I wouldnt mind replacing that while I'm at it.

 

[bubbatime]

Sounds like an ignition module to me too. Very common for them to work cold and stop working hot. As a temporary stop gap, reduce your plugs gap down to 0.020 or 0.025, which should help until you can replace it.

 

[wayne50]

I guess you checked that fuel cap was not plugged.

 

[440Magnum]

Dying when hot sure sounds like an ignition module, but I'm betting on a fuel pump if you didn't see fuel while cranking with the output line removed.

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Dying when hot sure sounds like an ignition module, but I'm betting on a fuel pump if you didn't see fuel while cranking with the output line removed.



Thats odd right?? There is fuel in the filter, and after I started it using carb cleaner I ran it for another 30-40 minutes just to get done another area that had to be done, while the rest can wait. So if it ran then, would the fuel pump be ok? I dont mind buying a new one, but I guess I should find a better way to test mine first.


I did order the ignition module (only need 1 right? I need to find a repair manual for this thing). Going to check some of these other things tonight.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Dying when hot sure sounds like an ignition module, but I'm betting on a fuel pump if you didn't see fuel while cranking with the output line removed.



Thats odd right?? There is fuel in the filter, and after I started it using carb cleaner I ran it for another 30-40 minutes just to get done another area that had to be done, while the rest can wait. So if it ran then, would the fuel pump be ok? I dont mind buying a new one, but I guess I should find a better way to test mine first.


I did order the ignition module (only need 1 right? I need to find a repair manual for this thing). Going to check some of these other things tonight.



The thing that comes to mind is the fuel pump might be weak but not totally dead. Spinning the engine fast moves enough fuel to keep it running until you hit just the right incline, then cranking-speed isn't enough to refill the carb so it won't re-start. Maybe?

 

[JTK]

Kohlers with the vac-pulse fuel pump like this can be very sensitive to the fuel filter being used. I've seen non-OEM fuel filters cause fuel starvation issues on these. I've also seen these vac/pulse pumps stop pumping when they get hot and things move around on them.

 

[HemiHawk]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Kohlers with the vac-pulse fuel pump like this can be very sensitive to the fuel filter being used. I've seen non-OEM fuel filters cause fuel starvation issues on these. I've also seen these vac/pulse pumps stop pumping when they get hot and things move around on them.


it certainly doesnt have the "oem" fuel filter, just one that came with a tune up kit for the engine. Very similar to this one
https://www.amazon.com/Stens-Replaces-AM...ZB5A7QDS9Z8GPY6

Now I'm debating buying a new fuel pump, the coil will be here tomorrow.

 

[JTK]

I would have faith in the fuel filter if it was indeed Stens. I've never had issues with Stens aftermarket parts. If it's not Stens, I'd find a genuine Kohler fuel filter and go from there. I hear you that you probably need this machine ASAP, but throwing parts at it can get pricey and lead you on a wild goose chase.

 

[Rickey]

OP,

I have a 2166 Cub.
Similar machine with a 16 HP Command single cylinder engine.

Sounds like a fuel problem, not ignition.

If it stalls and does not fire up on restart and carb cleaner results in it firing up; most likely this is not an ignition problem.

There are some things that are often missed when diagnosing
these machines.

Assuming your fuel filter is OK.

In no particular order:

The gas tank filler lid.
If the vent on the lid is "stuck" closed the engine will starve out after running a while.
If it stalls try loosening the cap then restart. Be careful please!!!

Grass or debris clogging the fuel line from the tank to the fuel filter/fuel pump.
My 2166 had this problem.
Compressed air at the filter end of the line with the tank empty of gas cleared the debris. Be careful!!!

Fuel line collapsed or pinched off due to age.

Vapor lock due to exhaust leak on frame of mower.
Frame heats up after awhile causing fuel line to get hot as well = vapor lock and no fuel from fuel pump.
My 2166 had this problem as well!!! (busted muffler)


The fuel mixture cut off solenoid on the carburetor should "click" each time the ignition is turned on.
If turning the ignition on does not produce a click from the fuel mixture solenoid , check for 12 volts and ground at the solenoid wiring.

For reference the service manual may be of some help.

This manual covers a series of very similar horizontal shaft V-twin Kohler engines, not all of the information applies to your specific model.
Your CH-18 is in there however.

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/24_690_06_EN.pdf

Good luck Sir.

 

[JTK]

Rickey, good point on the fuel tank cap. Forgot about that one!