Cruze/Sonic question

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Originally Posted By: Nick R
Interesting, just found out that the 1.4T will be offered ONLY with a manual transmission.


Only at launch. 1.4L auto will be coming.

At launch, the only engine options for 2LT and 2LTZ vehicle will be the 1.8L auto. 1.4L auto will come sometime later in the 2012 model year. Neither the 2LT or 2LTZ will have a manual transmission with any engine.

1LT and 1LTZ will have 1.8L manual, 1.8L auto, and 1.4L manual right from the start. There will be no 1.4L w/ auto for either the 1LT or 1LTZ.

Beyond that, 1LS is 1.8L maunal only and 2LS is 1.8L auto only.

So... if you want a 1.4L manual, you get a 1LT or 1LTZ. If you want a 1.4L auto, you get a 2LT or 2LTZ and you'll be waiting a bit for it.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
The Honda Fit starts at $15,175.
The Ford Fiesta starts at $15,500.
The Toyota Yaris starts at $14,115.
The Mazda2 starts at $14,180.

It is surprising that subcompacts cost this much, but to be fair, these are much, much nicer than budget-boxes from 10 years ago.


You know, I was thinking the same thing. But on the Autoblog podcast they've mentioned it multiple times. The machines and factories that build small cars cost the same as machines and factories that build more expensive cars. The companies don't pay workers less because they happen to be building a small car.

That's also why it's tricky for companies to make decent profits on small cars.


The Nissan Versa starts around $11,700.
 
Quote:
The companies don't pay workers less because they happen to be building a small car.


They don't? Ford pays the same wage to the workers in Mexico that screw the Fiesta together as the UAW guys get up in Michigan?

What about 40% of the workers at Orion Assembly, where the Sonic is screwed together? Their tier two wage is the same as the other 60% tier one wage?

The fact is, automakers DO pay their workers less because they're making an econobox. Ford does it by doing assembly in Mexico. The Japanese and Koreans do it by NOT opening plants in the U.S. to build sub-compacts. GM did it by getting the UAW to agree to the two tier wage system for Orion Assembly. Had it not been for that, surely the Sonic would be assembled in Mexico, like the Fiesta, or in Korea, like the Aveo before it.
 
Quote:
The Nissan Versa starts around $11,700.


This may be making excuses and I hate myself for saying it... but only the very base sedan has an MSRP that low.

If you want anything more than that base sedan offers or you want a hatchback, the price makes a significant jump to $14,500... or right about where the others are priced.

But hey, if you want to own a brand new rental car, Nissan's got you covered.

Actually, I just browsed Nissan's site. The base Versa isn't all that bad. ABS and stability control, a gaggle of airbags, and A/C is more than I expected. I wonder if all the folks on BITOG who fill up 8 page posts complaining that automakers don't make simple cars anymore even know about this. Fair price too.
 
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The C&D article states the 1.4L is only a $700 upgrade.

From what I can tell, with a Cruze, you have to jump a trim level to get it, from the base LS to the 1LT, and that's $1800.
 
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Despite the smaller size, I thought it would be more fuel efficient. From the webpage the 1.8 get the same ratings as the 2009 Corolla and the 1.4L turbo slightly better than a 2009 Yaris...
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
As far as the engines from Hungary?

Should be no worse than made by pot-smoking UAW elite. Hungarians have been making good engines for Austrians, who would supply them to Germans for a long time. Not only engines. A lot of Osram products were made there long before Soviet rapture.
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
As far as the engines from Hungary?

Should be no worse than made by pot-smoking UAW elite. Hungarians have been making good engines for Austrians, who would supply them to Germans for a long time. Not only engines. A lot of Osram products were made there long before Soviet rapture.


I think some people will take offense at that. Myself included. Because you know, workers for Honda and toyota don't smoke pot on the clock either I'm sure.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
As far as the engines from Hungary?

Should be no worse than made by pot-smoking UAW elite. Hungarians have been making good engines for Austrians, who would supply them to Germans for a long time. Not only engines. A lot of Osram products were made there long before Soviet rapture.


I think some people will take offense at that. Myself included. Because you know, workers for Honda and toyota don't smoke pot on the clock either I'm sure.


No way man, Honda and Toyota workers are too good for that stuff. They wear suites to put together cars too.

You know that guy who is always working with precision and determination you see in commercials? That is EVERY Honda and Toyota employee Nick.

You know the guy who burns his cereal and his wife has to show him how to put a garbage bag in the can? That is EVERY UAW/CAW worker.

Come on Nick, I thought you'd know this stuff by now
wink.gif
 
LOL it's even funnier when you talk to some of the people who worked at Honda here and see "how the sausage" was really made.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
LOL it's even funnier when you talk to some of the people who worked at Honda here and see "how the sausage" was really made.


You must mean with Japanese superiority, right? There can be nothing else.

bowing-282x300.jpg


(these are your average American Toyota and Honda line workers in case anybody was wondering).

grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
As far as the engines from Hungary?

Should be no worse than made by pot-smoking UAW elite. Hungarians have been making good engines for Austrians, who would supply them to Germans for a long time. Not only engines. A lot of Osram products were made there long before Soviet rapture.


I think some people will take offense at that. Myself included. Because you know, workers for Honda and toyota don't smoke pot on the clock either I'm sure.


No way man, Honda and Toyota workers are too good for that stuff. They wear suites to put together cars too.

You know that guy who is always working with precision and determination you see in commercials? That is EVERY Honda and Toyota employee Nick.

You know the guy who burns his cereal and his wife has to show him how to put a garbage bag in the can? That is EVERY UAW/CAW worker.

Come on Nick, I thought you'd know this stuff by now
wink.gif




Yea Nick, get with the program...
crackmeup2.gif
 
A reason the Cruze Eco gets better fuel economy than the Sonic with the 1.4/manual is because it's longer. Less drag since the air remains attached longer, and doesn't get turbulent as quickly. Either the hatch or the sedan are stubby little things.

They likely also geared the M32 in the Sonic to be "sporty" rather than "fuel-sipping". Marketing to a different group than the buttoned-down Cruze.
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
...The Sonic is all new and very nice, too.


Man I hope so.

The least expensive 4-door hatchback version (the one you'd probably be hard-pressed to find) starts at $15395.

Seems like an awful lot for the cheapest Chevy you can get, but then again, prices are insane today.

Joel



GM publicly announced that they know the Sonic is not the lowest priced subcompact. They are marketing it as the "best" bang for your buck given the features it offers. They wanted to create a nice car and are hoping buyers will pay a little more for a nice car.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Quote:
The companies don't pay workers less because they happen to be building a small car.


They don't? Ford pays the same wage to the workers in Mexico that screw the Fiesta together as the UAW guys get up in Michigan?

What about 40% of the workers at Orion Assembly, where the Sonic is screwed together? Their tier two wage is the same as the other 60% tier one wage?

The fact is, automakers DO pay their workers less because they're making an econobox. Ford does it by doing assembly in Mexico. The Japanese and Koreans do it by NOT opening plants in the U.S. to build sub-compacts. GM did it by getting the UAW to agree to the two tier wage system for Orion Assembly. Had it not been for that, surely the Sonic would be assembled in Mexico, like the Fiesta, or in Korea, like the Aveo before it.


Tier 2 is in all GM plants. Nothing to do about econonmy cars only so your answer is wrong - they DON'T pay less to workers building econo cars.
 
No matter where the engine is actually built, I'm willing to bet that internal components for the engine come from multiple countries.

And if I ever find out who was responsible for the #3 piston ring in my old Saturn, they will be sorry.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Quote:
The companies don't pay workers less because they happen to be building a small car.


They don't? Ford pays the same wage to the workers in Mexico that screw the Fiesta together as the UAW guys get up in Michigan?

What about 40% of the workers at Orion Assembly, where the Sonic is screwed together? Their tier two wage is the same as the other 60% tier one wage?

The fact is, automakers DO pay their workers less because they're making an econobox. Ford does it by doing assembly in Mexico. The Japanese and Koreans do it by NOT opening plants in the U.S. to build sub-compacts. GM did it by getting the UAW to agree to the two tier wage system for Orion Assembly. Had it not been for that, surely the Sonic would be assembled in Mexico, like the Fiesta, or in Korea, like the Aveo before it.


Tier 2 is in all GM plants. Nothing to do about econonmy cars only so your answer is wrong - they DON'T pay less to workers building econo cars.


You are correct. All GM plants subscribe to the new two-tier wage system... for NEW HIRES. Last I checked, GM has enough laid off manufacturing workers that they're not hiring too many *new* folks these days, just bringing back the ones who are already out of work. These workers are brought back with their tier-two pay, not tier-one.

Orion Assembly is different though. The UAW agreement at Orion has a *mandatory* 60/40 split of tier-one and tier-two workers. This is wholly unique amongst GM assembly plants and, accordingly, Orion has by far the largest percentage of tier-two workers. Do you think that it is coincidence that Orion, which is the only plant in the U.S. assembling a sub-compact car, was chosen for such an agreement?

The answer isn't a secret. The 60/40 agreement was ratified because, without it, GM would have kept Orion shuttered (it was closed in 2009 when Pontiac died) and the Sonic would be made in China, Korea, or Mexico. Why a mandatory number of tier-two workers? BECAUSE GM DOESN'T WANT TO PAY ASSEMBLY WORKERS TOP DOLLAR TO BOLT TOGETHER SUB-COMPACT CARS!

For what it's worth, Janesville (shuttered in 2009) and Spring Hill (idle since 2009) were also in the running to become the Sonic assembly plant with the same 60/40 split.
 
Both Ford and GM have hired through the eligible returnees for the most part. In Louisville recently Ford had 17,000 people apply for 300 or 400 new hire jobs. When Spring Hill comes back on line next year, they predict they will have a number of new hires there as well, as transfers and recalls won't fill the entire need. The same thing will happen at Flat Rock next year when they add that shift, most of those hires will be new hires as well. Both Ford and GM have announced that they project hiring between 6,000-10,000 over the next three years.

It's also incorrect to state that someone who gets transfered or comes back from lay off is hired back at the lower tier wage. If a tier 1 gets layed off and called back/transfered, they come back at tier 1.

As far as Orion, agreed for the most part. It is what could be called a "special agreement" that is in place. The percentages as you describe are designed to increase over time as well. As retirees at tier 1 retire or accept buy outs or as skilled trades accept buy outs...by agreement GM is allowed to hire more tier 2's to bring their percentages above the current 40%
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Quote:
The companies don't pay workers less because they happen to be building a small car.


They don't? Ford pays the same wage to the workers in Mexico that screw the Fiesta together as the UAW guys get up in Michigan?

What about 40% of the workers at Orion Assembly, where the Sonic is screwed together? Their tier two wage is the same as the other 60% tier one wage?

The fact is, automakers DO pay their workers less because they're making an econobox. Ford does it by doing assembly in Mexico. The Japanese and Koreans do it by NOT opening plants in the U.S. to build sub-compacts. GM did it by getting the UAW to agree to the two tier wage system for Orion Assembly. Had it not been for that, surely the Sonic would be assembled in Mexico, like the Fiesta, or in Korea, like the Aveo before it.


Tier 2 is in all GM plants. Nothing to do about econonmy cars only so your answer is wrong - they DON'T pay less to workers building econo cars.


You are correct. All GM plants subscribe to the new two-tier wage system... for NEW HIRES. Last I checked, GM has enough laid off manufacturing workers that they're not hiring too many *new* folks these days, just bringing back the ones who are already out of work. These workers are brought back with their tier-two pay, not tier-one.

Orion Assembly is different though. The UAW agreement at Orion has a *mandatory* 60/40 split of tier-one and tier-two workers. This is wholly unique amongst GM assembly plants and, accordingly, Orion has by far the largest percentage of tier-two workers. Do you think that it is coincidence that Orion, which is the only plant in the U.S. assembling a sub-compact car, was chosen for such an agreement?

The answer isn't a secret. The 60/40 agreement was ratified because, without it, GM would have kept Orion shuttered (it was closed in 2009 when Pontiac died) and the Sonic would be made in China, Korea, or Mexico. Why a mandatory number of tier-two workers? BECAUSE GM DOESN'T WANT TO PAY ASSEMBLY WORKERS TOP DOLLAR TO BOLT TOGETHER SUB-COMPACT CARS!

For what it's worth, Janesville (shuttered in 2009) and Spring Hill (idle since 2009) were also in the running to become the Sonic assembly plant with the same 60/40 split.


You are correct.
 
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