Cruze/Sonic question

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As a former GM salesman, I thought that GM got things right with the Cruze. I read that the "new" Chevrolet Sonic (rebadged Aveo) has the same engine as the Cruze. So, did GM put a decent engine in the Sonic or does the Cruze have the [censored] Aveo engine? Always thought that the Aveo would be a neat "run around" car but know that the engine was not built for longevity. The last base Aveo I sold about three years ago sold for $8000. Shortly afterward, the same car retailed for $12000. The Sonic that I saw last night had a retail price of $18k. It was a 2LT. I think GM is pricing itself out of the economy car market. But, that's another issue.
 
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I don't think the Sonic and the previous Chevrolaewoo Aveo share any components. The Sonic is GM's Gamma platform. The Aveo is from some Daewoo platform of various names in various markets. shrug or GM might have just given the old Daewoo platfom a new name.
 
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Same engines as the Cruze. Either the 1.8 or the 1.4 turbocharged. I have the 1.4 turbocharged engine in my Cruze. According to Wikipedia, it's a Family 0 Ecotec. The 1.8 is a Family 1 Ecotec like the 1.6 in the Aveo. Of the two engines, the 1.4 is the one to get. The power delivery is much smoother and it sounds very refined at high RPM. The 1.8 uses a timing belt compared to the chain in the 1.4T. Also, Inside Line seems to not hate the Sonic, at least from the quick perusal I gave their first drive report. I'd expect it to get better fuel economy than my Cruze. Yet initial reports indicate it's no faster, and thirstier. Go figure...
 
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Your post title and the content of your post don't make sense. You're post title implies a question. Your post content just shares your opinion that the Sonic will likely be a P0S because the Aveo was a P0S. Did I get that right?
 

JTK

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Originally Posted By: GMBoy
...The Sonic is all new and very nice, too.
Man I hope so. The least expensive 4-door hatchback version (the one you'd probably be hard-pressed to find) starts at $15395. Seems like an awful lot for the cheapest Chevy you can get, but then again, prices are insane today. Joel
 
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otis24

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Mr. Horsepower, I did not state that the Aveo or the Sonic were a POS. Nor did I state my opinion. My question, as very clearly stated, was if the Sonic (formerly the Aveo) got the good Cruze engine of if the Cruze had the Aveo engine all along. What I stated was that the Aveo was engine " was not built for longevity". I was under the impression that the Cruze had a decent engine and that the Aveo had a different engine that was not as durable. When i read that the Cruze and the Sonic had the same engine, I had my doubts as to what had taken place. If indeed the Sonic did get the Cruze engine and it is a different animal than the previous Aveo engine, in no way do I consider the Sonic a POS. Quite the contrary, it would be an auto that I would consider owning as I always liked the Aveo's styling and size.
 
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The Sonic has nothing in common with the old Aveo! The old Aveo was on a Daewoo-developed platform in the works before GM took it over. The Sonic is on the Gamma II platform, which is a development of a GM (Opel)/Fiat co-developed platform. Most of the work on the Gamma II platform was done by Opel. It looks the 1.8 Ecotec is a Family 1 Ecotec, but is just a kissing cousin to the 1.6 Ecotec in the Aveo. So, no, GM did not carry over the Aveo platform/engines with the Sonic. My opinion is to get the 1.4 turbo with the 6-speed manual. That'll be the quickest and most fuel-efficient out of all the Sonic variants.
 
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Originally Posted By: otis24
I was under the impression that the Cruze had a decent engine and that the Aveo had a different engine that was not as durable. When i read that the Cruze and the Sonic had the same engine, I had my doubts as to what had taken place. If indeed the Sonic did get the Cruze engine and it is a different animal than the previous Aveo engine, in no way do I consider the Sonic a POS. Quite the contrary, it would be an auto that I would consider owning as I always liked the Aveo's styling and size.
The Aveo has a 1.6 which may have been built by Holden but was probably GM/Korea(ie:Daewoo). IIRC, the country of origin for the 1.4T is Austria. The country of origin for the 1.8 is Hungary. (just look at the part list on the Cruze. From Kazatzkhan to Lordstown, OH. It's about as global a car as you can get.) The design of the Cruze/Sonic 1.8 and the Aveo 1.6 are similar...shrug
 
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Originally Posted By: GMBoy
The Aveo is gone. The Sonic is all new and very nice, too.
Thankfully. GM should have been embarrassed to put their badge on that vehicle. I look forward to a Sonic as my next cheap skate rental. I chance it on the bargain basement and typically get the upgrade since the teasers don't exist. Sonic actually seems like it will be a decent car.
 
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After reading this review I found myself adding the Sonic to the list of cars I'd consider when it next comes time to buy a new car. Although my current car should last at least 5 more years, so I have a while to wait.
 
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Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: otis24
I was under the impression that the Cruze had a decent engine and that the Aveo had a different engine that was not as durable. When i read that the Cruze and the Sonic had the same engine, I had my doubts as to what had taken place. If indeed the Sonic did get the Cruze engine and it is a different animal than the previous Aveo engine, in no way do I consider the Sonic a POS. Quite the contrary, it would be an auto that I would consider owning as I always liked the Aveo's styling and size.
The Aveo has a 1.6 which may have been built by Holden but was probably GM/Korea(ie:Daewoo). IIRC, the country of origin for the 1.4T is Austria. The country of origin for the 1.8 is Hungary. (just look at the part list on the Cruze. From Kazatzkhan to Lordstown, OH. It's about as global a car as you can get.) The design of the Cruze/Sonic 1.8 and the Aveo 1.6 are similar...shrug
Flint Engine South was being re-tooled to produce Family 0 and Family 1 Ecotec engines. Starting with the 1.4L in the Volt, then continuing to the 1.4L turbo and 1.8L. I don't know what the intended rollout is for the 1.4L turbo and 1.8L, but the 1.4L in the Volt began production in Dec, 2010. I would expect that sometime in the 2012 model year, if not right from the beginning, you'll start seeing engines built in Flint in the Cruze and Sonic. As for the engines themselves, the 1.8L in the Cruze/Sonic is the same 1.8L used in the Saturn Astra. It is a Family 1 engine, which is the same family as the 1.6L in the old Aveo. Essentially, the only difference between the 1.8L and the 1.6L is displacement. The 1.4L turbo is a Family 0. Again, very similar to the Family 1, except Family 0 engines use a timing chain. Family 1 engines use a timing belt. Family 1 engines were also available in both SOHC and DOHC layouts, where Family 0 have always been DOHC. There have also been 3-cylinder Family 0 engines available. Most development work was done by Opel. Both engine families, Family 0 and Family 1, have seen extensive use by Opel, Vauxhall, Fiat, and Saab in Europe, Chevrolet in Brazil, Chevrolet and Daewoo in Korea, and Holden in Australia. As noted above, they've been produced in engine plants in many different countries. They are about as global as an engine can get. The other Ecotec, the one the United States is most familiar with, in the Family II. Family II includes the 2.0L turbo in the Cobalt, Solstice, Sky, and Regal, the 2.4L in, well, just about everything, and the older 2.2L. These engine share nothing with the Family 0 or Family 1 engines except the Ecotec name. Development on the modern Family II was a joint effort between Opel, Saab, and GM Powertrain in N. America. The Family II engine has pretty much been limited to use in the United States and as a "premium" upgrade to the Family 0 and Family 1 engine in European markets.
 
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Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: otis24
I was under the impression that the Cruze had a decent engine and that the Aveo had a different engine that was not as durable. When i read that the Cruze and the Sonic had the same engine, I had my doubts as to what had taken place. If indeed the Sonic did get the Cruze engine and it is a different animal than the previous Aveo engine, in no way do I consider the Sonic a POS. Quite the contrary, it would be an auto that I would consider owning as I always liked the Aveo's styling and size.
The Aveo has a 1.6 which may have been built by Holden but was probably GM/Korea(ie:Daewoo). IIRC, the country of origin for the 1.4T is Austria. The country of origin for the 1.8 is Hungary. (just look at the part list on the Cruze. From Kazatzkhan to Lordstown, OH. It's about as global a car as you can get.) The design of the Cruze/Sonic 1.8 and the Aveo 1.6 are similar...shrug
Flint Engine South was being re-tooled to produce Family 0 and Family 1 Ecotec engines. Starting with the 1.4L in the Volt, then continuing to the 1.4L turbo and 1.8L. I don't know what the intended rollout is for the 1.4L turbo and 1.8L, but the 1.4L in the Volt began production in Dec, 2010. I would expect that sometime in the 2012 model year, if not right from the beginning, you'll start seeing engines built in Flint in the Cruze and Sonic. As for the engines themselves, the 1.8L in the Cruze/Sonic is the same 1.8L used in the Saturn Astra. It is a Family 1 engine, which is the same family as the 1.6L in the old Aveo. Essentially, the only difference between the 1.8L and the 1.6L is displacement. The 1.4L turbo is a Family 0. Again, very similar to the Family 1, except Family 0 engines use a timing chain. Family 1 engines use a timing belt. Family 1 engines were also available in both SOHC and DOHC layouts, where Family 0 have always been DOHC. There have also been 3-cylinder Family 0 engines available. Most development work was done by Opel. Both engine families, Family 0 and Family 1, have seen extensive use by Opel, Vauxhall, Fiat, and Saab in Europe, Chevrolet in Brazil, Chevrolet and Daewoo in Korea, and Holden in Australia. As noted above, they've been produced in engine plants in many different countries. They are about as global as an engine can get. The other Ecotec, the one the United States is most familiar with, in the Family II. Family II includes the 2.0L turbo in the Cobalt, Solstice, Sky, and Regal, the 2.4L in, well, just about everything, and the older 2.2L. These engine share nothing with the Family 0 or Family 1 engines except the Ecotec name. Development on the modern Family II was a joint effort between Opel, Saab, and GM Powertrain in N. America. The Family II engine has pretty much been limited to use in the United States and as a "premium" upgrade to the Family 0 and Family 1 engine in European markets.
The 1.4T in mine and my dads cruze is from the Flint Engine plant, at least if the Window sticker is to be believed- Says Engine Made in USA" some of the others said Austria.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: otis24
I was under the impression that the Cruze had a decent engine and that the Aveo had a different engine that was not as durable. When i read that the Cruze and the Sonic had the same engine, I had my doubts as to what had taken place. If indeed the Sonic did get the Cruze engine and it is a different animal than the previous Aveo engine, in no way do I consider the Sonic a POS. Quite the contrary, it would be an auto that I would consider owning as I always liked the Aveo's styling and size.
The Aveo has a 1.6 which may have been built by Holden but was probably GM/Korea(ie:Daewoo). IIRC, the country of origin for the 1.4T is Austria. The country of origin for the 1.8 is Hungary. (just look at the part list on the Cruze. From Kazatzkhan to Lordstown, OH. It's about as global a car as you can get.) The design of the Cruze/Sonic 1.8 and the Aveo 1.6 are similar...shrug
Flint Engine South was being re-tooled to produce Family 0 and Family 1 Ecotec engines. Starting with the 1.4L in the Volt, then continuing to the 1.4L turbo and 1.8L. I don't know what the intended rollout is for the 1.4L turbo and 1.8L, but the 1.4L in the Volt began production in Dec, 2010. I would expect that sometime in the 2012 model year, if not right from the beginning, you'll start seeing engines built in Flint in the Cruze and Sonic. As for the engines themselves, the 1.8L in the Cruze/Sonic is the same 1.8L used in the Saturn Astra. It is a Family 1 engine, which is the same family as the 1.6L in the old Aveo. Essentially, the only difference between the 1.8L and the 1.6L is displacement. The 1.4L turbo is a Family 0. Again, very similar to the Family 1, except Family 0 engines use a timing chain. Family 1 engines use a timing belt. Family 1 engines were also available in both SOHC and DOHC layouts, where Family 0 have always been DOHC. There have also been 3-cylinder Family 0 engines available. Most development work was done by Opel. Both engine families, Family 0 and Family 1, have seen extensive use by Opel, Vauxhall, Fiat, and Saab in Europe, Chevrolet in Brazil, Chevrolet and Daewoo in Korea, and Holden in Australia. As noted above, they've been produced in engine plants in many different countries. They are about as global as an engine can get. The other Ecotec, the one the United States is most familiar with, in the Family II. Family II includes the 2.0L turbo in the Cobalt, Solstice, Sky, and Regal, the 2.4L in, well, just about everything, and the older 2.2L. These engine share nothing with the Family 0 or Family 1 engines except the Ecotec name. Development on the modern Family II was a joint effort between Opel, Saab, and GM Powertrain in N. America. The Family II engine has pretty much been limited to use in the United States and as a "premium" upgrade to the Family 0 and Family 1 engine in European markets.
The 1.4T in mine and my dads cruze is from the Flint Engine plant, at least if the Window sticker is to be believed- Says Engine Made in USA" some of the others said Austria.
thumbsup good information and good to know. I have nothing against Austrian engines. Certainly a few of those line workers must have been at Rotax previously and know a thing or two, but it makes sense for GM to not have to import engines made by Western European workers with European benefits and wages and bring those jobs here. As far as the engines from Hungary? shrug I enjoy a nice goulash and I've had good stuffed cabbbage, but I don't think I've ever owned a Hungarian engine. I don't know how much of the Soviet era still lingers on those production lines. You have to wonder about the quality. (you thought I was going to bring up the Gabor sisters, didn't you? LOL ) Good to know that they are both here or will be here soon.
 
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Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
...The Sonic is all new and very nice, too.
Man I hope so. The least expensive 4-door hatchback version (the one you'd probably be hard-pressed to find) starts at $15395. Seems like an awful lot for the cheapest Chevy you can get, but then again, prices are insane today. Joel
Exactly what I was thinking.
 
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The Honda Fit starts at $15,175. The Ford Fiesta starts at $15,500. The Toyota Yaris starts at $14,115. The Mazda2 starts at $14,180. It is surprising that subcompacts cost this much, but to be fair, these are much, much nicer than budget-boxes from 10 years ago.
 
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Originally Posted By: NateDN10
The Honda Fit starts at $15,175. The Ford Fiesta starts at $15,500. The Toyota Yaris starts at $14,115. The Mazda2 starts at $14,180. It is surprising that subcompacts cost this much, but to be fair, these are much, much nicer than budget-boxes from 10 years ago.
You know, I was thinking the same thing. But on the Autoblog podcast they've mentioned it multiple times. The machines and factories that build small cars cost the same as machines and factories that build more expensive cars. The companies don't pay workers less because they happen to be building a small car. That's also why it's tricky for companies to make decent profits on small cars.
 
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