Cross Reference Fun/Confusion

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Apr 2, 2015
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149
Location
Missouri
The BITOG rabbit hole continues! :ROFLMAO: I apologize if this is covered a ton, I did some searching, but I have read some much lately I got lazy with this one.

According to RA's oil flter lineup my 5.0 can use the MC FL500S, Wix 57502, Champ PH500XL, Fram TG10575, ACD PF63E and some others. So, I found a couple cross reference tools and figured, what the heck I got some time...🤦‍♂️ The MC FL500S would be the OE for me, but I could not find exact specs like I did for others (just PSI and bypass location from reading on here).

After the cross referencing and comparing (media, bypass PSI's, gasket OD and ID, overall size, etc.) I noticed most specs do not really match up exactly and when cross referencing, the filters that come up as replacements, some that are brought up aren't listed for the 5.0.

For example, the PH500XL and the PF63E are listed as a 5.0 filters on RA. Cross reference them on the Wix website and both bring up the WL10255. Overall the 3 seem to be very similar across the board, but they are not the Wix 57502 that is listed on RA. The only big difference I could find for the WL10255 and the 57502 is the overall length. Cross reference the PH500XL, PF63E, and 57502 on Fram's website and they bring up the TG10575 like expected, but some noticeable differences in some specs (most noticeable overall length of PH500XL and PF63E compared to the other 2).

For the sake of not rambling on anymore, my question(s) is: With filters being used across so many different applications, does matching specs beyond the thread size and gasket (as best you can) really matter? Some have bypass located at the plate some in the dome. Some have an exact PSI, others have a range. Overall lengths vary and so I would assume capacity and media amount vary.

Thanks ahead of time for the education that is coming!
 
For the sake of not rambling on anymore, my question(s) is: With filters being used across so many different applications, does matching specs beyond the thread size and gasket (as best you can) really matter? Some have bypass located at the plate some in the dome. Some have an exact PSI, others have a range. Overall lengths vary and so I would assume capacity and media amount vary.
I'd have no problem running any filter that cross references over from other filters specified for the same engine - and they will not all have exactly the same bypass valve setting. The bypass valve setting has as much to do with the filter design as it does with the performance of the engine's oiling system (ie, max pump flow, viscosity specified, recommended filter change interval).

I also don't have a problem running an oversized filter of the same brand if the base gasket lands fully on the mounting base and the can has room and doesn't interfere with anything around it, and the bypass valve setting is the same as the shorter version.
 
I'd have no problem running any filter that cross references over from other filters specified for the same engine - and they will not all have exactly the same bypass valve setting. The bypass valve setting has as much to do with the filter design as it does with the performance of the engine's oiling system (ie, max pump flow, viscosity specified, recommended filter change interval).

I also don't have a problem running an oversized filter of the same brand if the base gasket lands fully on the mounting base and the can has room and doesn't interfere with anything around it, and the bypass valve setting is the same as the shorter version.
Thank you! I have been using an Ultra (OD 2.756, ID 2.454) and just to do something totally different thought about grabbing the WL10255 (OD 2.741, ID 2.458). I would think that should match up fine, correct? 10255 and 57502 are both 22PSI.

Also, I noticed you posted this in another thread:
"An oil filter bypass valve setting is based on: 1) Flow resistance of the media. 2) Anticipated oil viscosity used. 3) Anticipated media loading and increased delta-p of the media in use. 4) Maximum oil volume output of the oil pump."

I have been debating going from 5W20 to either 5w30 or 5W40. Would that switch cause issues in the filter? I have actually purchased some 5W40 (Amsoil 5W40 Euro EFM), but the order has not shipped and can be canceled.
 
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Thank you! I have been using an Ultra (OD 2.756, ID 2.454) and just to do something totally different thought about grabbing the WL10255 (OD 2.741, ID 2.458). I would think that should match up fine, correct? 10255 and 57502 are both 22PSI.
(OD 2.756, ID 2.454) vs (OD 2.741, ID 2.458) ... should not be a problem because pretty much every oil filter mount I've seen has a pretty wide area for the filter gasket to seal on, and would accommodate both ... they are only an OD delta of 0.015" and ID delta of 0.004".

Also, I noticed you posted this in another thread:
"An oil filter bypass valve setting is based on: 1) Flow resistance of the media. 2) Anticipated oil viscosity used. 3) Anticipated media loading and increased delta-p of the media in use. 4) Maximum oil volume output of the oil pump."

I have been debating going from 5W20 to either 5w30 or 5W40. Would that switch cause issues in the filter? I have actually purchased some 5W40 (Amsoil 5W40 Euro EFM), but the order has not shipped and can be canceled.

With hot oil it won't matter enough to worry about - might get 1~2 PSI more of delta-p with 5W-40 vs 5W-20 when hot. With any filter, there's going to be much higher delta-p across the media when the oil is cold, and therefore it's always good to keep engine revs down until the oil warms up some.
 
Thank you! I have been using an Ultra (OD 2.756, ID 2.454) and just to do something totally different thought about grabbing the WL10255 (OD 2.741, ID 2.458). I would think that should match up fine, correct? 10255 and 57502 are both 22PSI.

Also, I noticed you posted this in another thread:
"An oil filter bypass valve setting is based on: 1) Flow resistance of the media. 2) Anticipated oil viscosity used. 3) Anticipated media loading and increased delta-p of the media in use. 4) Maximum oil volume output of the oil pump."

I have been debating going from 5W20 to either 5w30 or 5W40. Would that switch cause issues in the filter? I have actually purchased some 5W40 (Amsoil 5W40 Euro EFM), but the order has not shipped and can be canceled.

The difference in viscosity once hot is negligible. If the viscosity of a 5w40 at 200F would cause the bypass valve to open, then the same would happen with the 5w30 below around 190F and the 5w20 below around 180F. Where it can make a difference is below freezing, but oils don't stay that cold for long while used and the increased viscosity also means increased MOFT and the corresponding less chance of debris causing damage
 
I also don't have a problem running an oversized filter of the same brand if the base gasket lands fully on the mounting base and the can has room and doesn't interfere with anything around it, and the bypass valve setting is the same as the shorter version.
If I choose the larger filter is there a way to look up or gauge how much extra oil I would need? Truck calls for 7.7qts with the shorter filter.

Filter one is 2.942" diam and 4.09" length. Filter two is 2.921" diam and 4.474" length.
 
If I choose the larger filter is there a way to look up or gauge how much extra oil I would need? Truck calls for 7.7qts with the shorter filter.

Filter one is 2.942" diam and 4.09" length. Filter two is 2.921" diam and 4.474" length.
You'll have plenty left in that last 0.3 quart to make up the extra needed, and still won't take all 8 quarts even with the longer filter installed.
 
You'll have plenty left in that last 0.3 quart to make up the extra needed, and still won't take all 8 quarts even with the longer filter installed.
I figured that was a dumb question after I already asked it since the PH500XL and PF63E measure about the same as the WL10255. Thanks again!
 
@ZeeOSix, could you tell me what conditions cause the bypass valve to open? I am seeing a wide range of bpv settings on filters applicable to my engine. Examples of some settings: 12-15psi, 15.5psi, 22psi, 16-28psi. With such a wide psi range I was curious how often that magic number is actually reached to enter bypass? I would assume cold start is one scenario and filter media being full is another. Outside those, all I can think of would be hard/heavy acceleration and I would assume in normal driving conditions the oil is going through the media like it should. Would that be correct?
Asking because two Microgard Select filters I am looking at, their main differences are filter size and bpv psi. The smaller one has a 22psi setting and the bigger has a 12-15psi setting.
 
@ZeeOSix, could you tell me what conditions cause the bypass valve to open? ...
There is only one condition that causes a relief valve to open ...
There is a dP (pressure differential) that exceeds the setpoint of the relief.

Now, what are the potential causes of that dP?
- media loaded to a point where it cannot pass the volume sufficienty and therefore lifts the BP open to relieve the dP; this typically is chronic and won't resolve itself
- surge of pressure that momentarily exceeds the dP setpoint, but is only accute and will resolve itself quickly

Somewhere in the bowels of this website (in it's former server system) there was a great write-up by Jim Allen. He did some detailed dP testing at cold starts, etc, and found that the bypass opening is actually a rare event.
 
Now, what are the potential causes of that dP?
- media loaded to a point where it cannot pass the volume sufficienty and therefore lifts the BP open to relieve the dP; this typically is chronic and won't resolve itself
- surge of pressure that momentarily exceeds the dP setpoint, but is only accute and will resolve itself quickly.
To add, high viscosity oil is also a factor that causes delta-p. Higher viscosity at the same flow rate means more delta-p. This is why engines shouldn't be revved real high after cold starts until the oil warms up some and reduces the viscosity. That was also shown in the on vehicle testing Jim Allen did, where he could get unloaded filters to hit bypass delta-p if the oil was cold enough along with higher engine revs.
 
I am seeing a wide range of bpv settings on filters applicable to my engine. Examples of some settings: 12-15psi, 15.5psi, 22psi, 16-28psi. With such a wide psi range I was curious how often that magic number is actually reached to enter bypass?
The filter bypass setting is dependant on the vehicle it's specified for, and also the design of the filter flow resistance and ability to take the bypass delta-p without damage to the media and center tube. Keep in mind that one filter model may be specified for many different vehicle engines, so that filter model must be designed to work properly on the most demanding engine in the group, the one that has the highest ouput oil pump conditions and cause the most delta-p during operation.

So when you see a bunch of different filter brands all specified for the same engine, those design factors are why the bypass settings across that group of filters may differ like you're seeing.
 
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